Non-AFL chat thread part 2

[WallyStringhaus]

Not saying the system is perfect.

I guess I don't like that governments are putting in legislation to force how people live in the house when the owner might not agree.

It's what governments do though. I have a mate who cant have his kids in pre-school and has lost family tax benefits because he has concerns over vaccinating his children (dont want to get into whether that is right or wrong...its his choice). Its not right to (as you said) force things down people's throats in a "free" society.

 

[Fossie 32]

I know the thread is random Bulldogs chatter, but this is way more random and way less Bulldogs related....

I was thinking the other day we should have a general chat thread so I started posting in this one.......... don't know if that is a good place for it?


https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/non-afl-chat-thread-part-2.1188562/

Mutt _Mike_

 

[timtamWB]

It's what governments do though. I have a mate who cant have his kids in pre-school and has lost family tax benefits because he has concerns over vaccinating his children (dont want to get into whether that is right or wrong...its his choice). Its not right to (as you said) force things down people's throats in a "free" society.

That's completely different, that is a matter of national healthcare and there have been thousands of studies why vaccines are needed.

The landlord issue doesn't even compare.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Not saying the system is perfect.

I guess I don't like that governments are putting in legislation to force how people live in the house when the owner might not agree.

Next they'll be passing laws telling people how to speak and think...

 

[compact72]

Next they'll be passing laws telling people how to speak and think...

They tried that in Canada (the speaking)

O hail Jordan Peterson

 

[WallyStringhaus]

That's completely different, that is a matter of national healthcare and there have been thousands of studies why vaccines are needed.

The landlord issue doesn't even compare.

Don't worry I've had many spirited debates with this guy on many, many topics and we disagree on A LOT of things but one of the things I'm right beside him on is his right to have a choice without being penalised for it.

There are comparisons because the government comes up with policies/legislations/laws and forces it upon people. Compact72 should have a choice on whether he wants pets in HIS house or not. No government or heirarchy should ever have the power to take away the freedom of choice.

 

[Snake Livermore]

Don't worry I've had many spirited debates with this guy on many, many topics and we disagree on A LOT of things but one of the things I'm right beside him on is his right to have a choice without being penalised for it.

There are comparisons because the government comes up with policies/legislations/laws and forces it upon people. Compact72 should have a choice on whether he wants pets in HIS house or not. No government or heirarchy should ever have the power to take away the freedom of choice.

Nobody has taken away his freedom is choice. Everyone can choose to do what they want ina society but if it can harm others (eg not vaccinating your kids) then there will be a negative consequence.

That's pretty standard stuff. Been going on since caveman days.

A common misconception of not vaccinating is it's only your child's health you're risking. But that's not how vaccinating works. For every child not vaccinated the risk to the broader population increases.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

Nobody has taken away his freedom is choice. Everyone can choose to do what they want ina society but if it can harm others (eg not vaccinating your kids) then there will be a negative consequence.

That's pretty standard stuff. Been going on since caveman days.

A common misconception of not vaccinating is it's only your child's health you're risking. But that's not how vaccinating works. For every child not vaccinated the risk to the broader population increases.

So should people who smoke, take drugs or drink alcohol have family tax benefits taken from them? All of those things can be and are destructive to those that choose to do it, their immediate families and the broader community.

This bloke has been one of my best mates for over a decade, is the sole income earner for his family and one of the most dedicated husband, father and friend you will ever meet yet now he cant come to our weekly dinner out or even come to the pub for a couple of beers...its bullshit imo...im actually super worried for his mental health because he is doing it so tough. Honest, hardworking and upstanding citizens shouldn't be punished for having an alternative belief system.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

So should people who smoke, take drugs or drink alcohol have family tax benefits taken from them? All of those things can be and are destructive to those that choose to do it, their immediate families and the broader community.

This bloke has been one of my best mates for over a decade, is the sole income earner for his family and one of the most dedicated husband, father and friend you will ever meet yet now he cant come to our weekly dinner out or even come to the pub for a couple of beers...its bullshit imo...im actually super worried for his mental health because he is doing it so tough. Honest, hardworking and upstanding citizens shouldn't be punished for having an alternative belief system.

Vaccination is not the same as drugs, alcohol or nicotine, which only affect the users. The risk of childhood diseases reappearing, which wiped out thousands, millions of babies and young children is something no one wants to even contemplate. This guy's "alternative belief system" is not more important than the good of the WHOLE COMMUNITY'S HEALTH. I'm sure he would be horrified if his unimmunised child was responsible for an outbreak of measles or whatever at the daycare centre, but that's the danger. Penalties need to apply to emphasise the importance of immunisation.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

Vaccination is not the same as drugs, alcohol or nicotine, which only affect the users. The risk of childhood diseases reappearing, which wiped out thousands, millions of babies and young children is something no one wants to even contemplate. This guy's "alternative belief system" is not more important than the good of the WHOLE COMMUNITY'S HEALTH. I'm sure he would be horrified if his unimmunised child was responsible for an outbreak of measles or whatever at the daycare centre, but that's the danger. Penalties need to apply to emphasise the importance of immunisation.

If you honestly think that drugs and alcohol only effect the user I suggest you seek out some more education on the matters.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

If you honestly think that drugs and alcohol only effect the user I suggest you seek out some more education on the matters.

The point is you don't "catch" drug taking or alcohol abuse unsuspectingly. The dangers of active and passive smoking are (weakly) addressed by advertising and taxation but still not as dangerous as invisible germs and viruses that target the most vulnerable, babies and children.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

The point is you don't "catch" drug taking or alcohol abuse unsuspectingly. The dangers of active and passive smoking are (weakly) addressed by advertising and taxation but still not as dangerous as invisible germs and viruses that target the most vulnerable, babies and children.

I'm well aware of all of that and not denying any of it. I just think there has to be a better way then putting decent, hard working families on or below the poverty line.

A person who truly believes that vaccines are harmful to children (and to be fair, all medicines do have side effects) isn't going to change their beliefs because of a financial penalty. I know this for certain because my mate has told me ad nauseam that there is nothing the gvt can do to make him vaccinate his kids.

Why not reward those who "do the right thing" like you, me and 95% of the population rather than destroy those that don't?

 

[Hard Ball Get]

So I see you haven't dealt with terrible landlords. This is only blowback because of landlords that are incredibly unreasonable, won't allow their tenants to do anything, won't respond to any problems, will change things without warning etc.

There are definitely reasonable landlords, and these changes are unfair for them. Realistically tenant and landlord should just both be nice people but we both know that just doesn't happen most of the time.

There are way more terrible renters than terrible landlords.

 

[Wocka]

The Storm game last night was unbelievable. Watch the replay if you can.

 

[Next Waiting]

lol wow. Nearly as good as some of the Jong melts over the years

 

[maddog37]

lol wow. Nearly as good as some of the Jong melts over the years

One of the worst losers in world sport.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

The people defending her are just as much of a joke. It’s not sexist or racist at all.

But apparently anyone who is not a female or is black is wrong.

I know that I have no right to choose what offends people, but you can’t just play those cards whenever you **** up.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

All seemed pretty clear cut violations.

Violation 1 - coaching. Coach admitted to doing it and being in the wrong so not sure you can argue that.

Violation 2 - smashing racquet. Pretty obvious violation, think it’s a mandatory violation. Can’t argue that.

Violation 3 - abuse of umpire. People seem to be thinking it’s because she said one word, from the video she was going on for over a minute. At what point does the umpire say that’s enough. To be fair though, a lot of umpires do just take the abuse and don’t issue violations for it. I think it’s fair enough that he called it but I guess a lot of others might have not called it. Think that’s more of an issue of some of the other umpires than an issue of Ramos though.

It’ll blow over in a couple of days. Don’t like that this has become a sexism/racism thing. Simply a case of a sportsperson whose lost their temper and composure.

Do feel sorry for Osaka though. Must have been a weird moment for her. Winning her first grand slam at age 20, beating the greatest player in her sport on the biggest stage, and it ends up getting overshadowed like it did and she didn’t really get the chance to bask in the limelight. I’m sure it’ll be the first grand slam of many for her.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

She was treated unfairly imo. Numerous players have done a lot worse and had no penalty. But its not because she’s black or a woman, it’s because she’s been a serial abuser of officals and umpires for years and carries on like a pork chop on the court.

For me the shame is that it’s way overshadowed Osaka’s victory which is a pretty cool story on an individual level and for global sport.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

She was treated unfairly imo. Numerous players have done a lot worse and had no penalty. But its not because she’s black or a woman, it’s because she’s been a serial abuser of officals and umpires for years and carries on like a pork chop on the court.

For me the shame is that it’s way overshadowed Osaka’s victory which is a pretty cool story on an individual level and for global sport.

To me the issue isn't whether she was treated unfairly or not, it's that she acted like a petulant 2 year old afterward.

 

[maddog37]

She did the same thing against Aussie Kim Clisters and Sam Stosur when losing the US open to them. She threatened a line person at one point.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

To me the issue isn't whether she was treated unfairly or not, it's that she acted like a petulant 2 year old afterward.

But didn’t you hear her, she’s a mother. That means she somehow definitely didn’t look for coaching.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Federer 20 (37)
Nadal 17 (32)
Djokovic 14 (31)
Murray 3 (31)
Wawrinka 3 (33)
del Potro 1 (30)
Cilic 1 (30)

Men’s tennis is in real trouble. No player under 30 will have won a grand slam by the end of this year. Astonishing!

Can see Zverev making the leap soon and Thiem will be a constant threat at the French too but the 22-29 year olds have been a wasted bracket. Raonic, Dimitrov, Kyrgios and the like really should have been taking over the baton by now but they aren’t even getting close at the moment.

As much as I’ve Federer, Nadal and Djokovic and how great they’ve been and as much as I’ll miss them when they finish up, I’m sort of sick of them winning everything.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Federer 20 (37)
Nadal 17 (32)
Djokovic 14 (31)
Murray 3 (31)
Wawrinka 3 (33)
del Potro 1 (30)
Cilic 1 (30)

Men’s tennis is in real trouble. No player under 30 will have won a grand slam by the end of this year. Astonishing!

Can see Zverev making the leap soon and Thiem will be a constant threat at the French too but the 22-29 year olds have been a wasted bracket. Raonic, Dimitrov, Kyrgios and the like really should have been taking over the baton by now but they aren’t even getting close at the moment.

As much as I’ve Federer, Nadal and Djokovic and how great they’ve been and as much as I’ll miss them when they finish up, I’m sort of sick of them winning everything.

Zverev has a lot of talent but his GS record is very ugly reading. One quarter final appearance. One! Mentally he's not strong enough yet, and his emotional regulation on the court can be a real problem. He's just way too prone to taking a backwards step in the middle of matches and starting to push the ball. They're not things that can be fixed overnight.

Raonic isn't good enough. Dimitrov is good enough at his best but is far too inconsistent and prone to collapse. Thiem can play well enough to win a slam on a slower court but he has to find another gear if he's going to do it in the presence of Nadal, Djokovic and Federer. We all know the deal with Kyrgios. I personally think he's good enough to really push for multiple slams but I doubt he ever actually pulls it together.

Shapovalov and Tsitsipas are the ones I have the most faith in (alongside Thiem jagging one eventually, and Zverev possibly) - but the wait could be a bit longer in that case.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

The case for Zverev is that he has won big tournaments before (3 masters titles), he’s only 21 and it’ll all come together in a grand slam one day. It took Murray a while to break through and win one but before that he was making finals and semi finals before succumbing to one of the other three, concerning thing with Zverev is that he’s getting knocked out well before that. Haven’t seen enough of Shapovalov or Tsitsipas to make a comment but it’s encouraging that there is a lot of people who rate their chances.

Dimitrov is frustrating as hell. Always looked promising and last year it looked like it had clicked. Thought he’d have a big breakthrough year this year but it’s back to the same. Two R1 exits in a row when he should be at the peak of his powers is worrying. Don’t think Kyrgios will ever get it together. More talented than anyone but isn’t hungry enough.

During that 2015-16 run of invincible Djokovic my brother would always say that he’d end up with more than Federer and I always brushed him off and argued that he was too far behind. Can definitely see it happening now, he’s still a long way behind but if he stays fit he will probably win 2+ GS every year.