Analysis The rebuild of Carlton and Brisbane and their future prospects

[Damon_3388]

um wat? (all roughly same age), McKay has 21 goals, Hipwood has 37 goals, Curnow has 34 goals. Am aware that Curnow was used up the ground a bit but Hipwood is clearly ahead of McKay

If you look at averages rather than totals for this past season, you'll see the comparison slightly favours McKay.

McKay actually plays like a 200cm player too, rather than an oversized flanker, and seems to be able to play within his limitations more comfortably, rather than trying to do too much and make mistakes as a result.

Hipwood showed some better signs in the second half of the year, in terms of actually being able to "play big" and play to his size (what's the point of being 6'8" if you're not going to play like it?), but I'm still not completely sold on him yet.

 

[a mayes ing]

If you look at averages rather than totals for this past season, you'll see the comparison slightly favours McKay.

McKay actually plays like a 200cm player too, rather than an oversized flanker, and seems to be able to play within his limitations more comfortably, rather than trying to do too much and make mistakes as a result.

Hipwood showed some better signs in the second half of the year, in terms of actually being able to "play big" and play to his size (what's the point of being 6'8" if you're not going to play like it?), but I'm still not completely sold on him yet.

Everything you just said l had already covered in my previous post as to the reason why l looked at totals rather than averages.
Also what does it matter if they play big or small as long as they get the job done. McKay plays big because he doesn't have the same athleticism as Hipwood. Hippy plays that way because he is actually a lot faster than most defenders and doesn't have the bulk that McKay does to outmove or push defenders out of the way. Play to your strengths

 

[Juddernaut08]

Everything you just said l had already covered in my previous post as to the reason why l looked at totals rather than averages.
Also what does it matter if they play big or small as long as they get the job done. McKay plays big because he doesn't have the same athleticism as Hipwood. Hippy plays that way because he is actually a lot faster than most defenders and doesn't have the bulk that McKay does to outmove or push defenders out of the way. Play to your strengths

Curnow >>> Hipwood > McKay

Id rather Hipwood but McKay will still be very good.

 

[a mayes ing]

Curnow >>> Hipwood > McKay

Id rather Hipwood but McKay will still be very good.

I do think Curnow is better than Hippy right now but not by a huge amount as to what you are referring to (considering he did get more goals than Curnow). However, l have no idea who will be better in the long run as both will be guns, Hipwood could be anything with his speed and height. Just needs to put on weight. I can see the curnow vs Hipwood battle will be within the Brisbane vs Blues battle. I have said a few times but our two teams are gonna be linked for the next decade imo because we are very similar

 

[ParapMarkets]

Unless there's a bunch of unexpected free agency acquisitions, I don't think either side has enough quantity or quality in that prime age group (ages 25-29, born 1990-1994) going into the 2019 season to really go beyond the bottom six.

It’s hard to see Carlton break out from the bottom 6 next year but I think Brisbane would be a very good chance, I’m tipping a good year for them. It’s a pity they lost Beams, I could’ve seen them make the 8 possibly. They may not have too much in that key age bracket you mention but they have serious quality just underneath it and good quality seniors as well.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I do think Curnow is better than Hippy right now but not by a huge amount as to what you are referring to (considering he did get more goals than Curnow). However, l have no idea who will be better in the long run as both will be guns, Hipwood could be anything with his speed and height. Just needs to put on weight. I can see the curnow vs Hipwood battle will be within the Brisbane vs Blues battle. I have said a few times but our two teams are gonna be linked for the next decade imo because we are very similar

I think the rivalry will be between Hipwood and McKay. Both have potential to be A-graders.

Curnow imo is on a different level. Just has the innate ability to read the play that the other two don't.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Lions surged ahead towards the end of last season but carlton won more games in 2017 than brisbane did in 2018. carlton had a terrible run of injuries last year while brisbane had a decent run. I'm just saying that the growth of rebuilding footy sides is not linear.

west coast rebuild at the end of judd era went:
2008:4-18 15th of 16
2009:8-14 11th of 16
2010:4-18 16th of 16
2011:17-5 prelim

their third year of the rebuild was their worst just like carlton's 2018. i'm certainly not suggest carlton will make a prelim next year, in fact i still expect them to be bottom 4, but I think everyone needs to surrender to the fact that no one really has any idea what will happen (as if we don't learn that lesson every year)

Prelim 2019!!!

Seriously tho the eagles have a long history now of bouncing up and down drastically. Ridiculous!

 

[Trav 20]

You can have all the talent in the world, but you need aggression around the contest to succeed.

Your ruck and centre square mids set the tone. Of course all other parts of the ground are important, but if you can't win at the coal face you won't go far.

For me, Carlton are a mile off. Cripps is their only aggressive mid. Dow, O'Brien, etc. are going to get bashed up. And older light bodies like Murphy and Thomas don't help.

More of the same for Carlton in 2019.

 

[La Dispute]

You can have all the talent in the world, but you need aggression around the contest to succeed.

Your ruck and centre square mids set the tone. Of course all other parts of the ground are important, but if you can't win at the coal face you won't go far.

For me, Carlton are a mile off. Cripps is their only aggressive mid. Dow, O'Brien, etc. are going to get bashed up. And older light bodies like Murphy and Williams don't help.

More of the same for Carlton in 2019.

I know this is basically a troll post (and fmd is it schizophrenic) but who's Williams?

Kennedy and Dow are both aggressive, but they're inexperienced and still need to put on size to compete with stronger opposition mids.

Not sure Murphy's light body has anything to do with our performances either - he's an outside mid who has to play on the inside out of necessity due to our lack of depth in the area. Bringing in Setterfield, having a fit Kennedy and then getting a good pre-season into Dow will allow Murphy to play on a wing and possibly even a forward flank where he's far more suited. Ed Curnow is a reasonably consistent player too, despite his limitations.

Our midfield was at absolute rock bottom last season. I don't doubt it's still a work in progress, and there will still be games where far too much heavy lifting is left to Cripps, but it's naive to think we'll be producing similar results after introducing more depth into our midfield and getting another pre-season into our younger players.

 

[Trav 20]

I know this is basically a troll post (and fmd is it schizophrenic) but who's Williams?

Kennedy and Dow are both aggressive, but they're inexperienced and still need to put on size to compete with stronger opposition mids.

Not sure Murphy's light body has anything to do with our performances either - he's an outside mid who has to play on the inside out of necessity due to our lack of depth in the area. Bringing in Setterfield, having a fit Kennedy and then getting a good pre-season into Dow will allow Murphy to play on a wing and possibly even a forward flank where he's far more suited. Ed Curnow is a reasonably consistent player too, despite his limitations.

Our midfield was at absolute rock bottom last season. I don't doubt it's still a work in progress, and there will still be games where far too much heavy lifting is left to Cripps, but it's naive to think we'll be producing similar results after introducing more depth into our midfield and getting another pre-season into our younger players.

I'm not sure my Daisy Williams brain fade when meaning Daisy Thomas is a troll post. Just a sign of an experienced poster with too many memories. But you're probably a kid.

Kennedy was a joke this year. And if you think your lightweight midfield won't be absolutely smashed again you've taken blue sky junkie supporter to new levels.

Over 22 rounds Carlton's midfield will get bashed up. It won't happen every week, but it's a long season and they simply won't be able to cope.

I expect 4 wins. Six wins would be huge.

 

[Checkered]

All this talk about Hipwood's stats and lack of muscle but no mention of his goal kicking.

Deadset missed every shot he had from straight in front 30-55m out. Whenever he got it there you could be certain he would butcher it.

s**t goalkicking easily cost him 10-15 more goals. Surely won the award for 'most out of bounds on the fulls from set shots' this year.

 

[Checkered]

Curnow >>> Hipwood > McKay

Id rather Hipwood but McKay will still be very good.

Lmao lay it on thicker big fella

 

[La Dispute]

I'm not sure my Daisy Williams brain fade when meaning Daisy Thomas is a troll post. Just a sign of an experienced poster with too many memories. But you're probably a kid.

Kennedy was a joke this year. And if you think your lightweight midfield won't be absolutely smashed again you've taken blue sky junkie supporter to new levels.

Over 22 rounds Carlton's midfield will get bashed up. It won't happen every week, but it's a long season and they simply won't be able to cope.

I expect 4 wins. Six wins would be huge.

The original post in its entirety was a troll. Slightly passive aggressive, slightly incoherent. O’Brien doesn’t play as an inside midfielder - so he’s not getting belted in stoppages, Kennedy spent most of this year injured - so his impact was minimal.

You questioned the aggression of our mids and then the very next player you listed was Dow, who doesn’t lack any aggression whatsoever.

I’d love to think you’re putting down an insightful, well thought out post but the reality is you’re just throwing down the same tired Carlton tropes that any oppositon supporter has been trotting out all year.

Deadset broken record stuff.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Lmao lay it on thicker big fella

Yeah not much between Curnow and Hippy - both have very high ceilings. If both live up to potential we'll still be debating who is better in 20 years.

Rayner though IMO has the highest ceiling of any player from both teams. Potential to be the best player in the comp

 

[Monkey King]

Kennedy was a joke this year.

Eh? Started the season as a 20yo with a limited preseason, got injured, managed 12 games over an interrupted season and started to put in some decent games by season’s end.

 

[Monkey King]

I don't think either side has enough quantity or quality in that prime age group (ages 25-29, born 1990-1994) going into the 2019 season

This is the key for both these sides. Shouldn’t be expecting too much until a core of the team moves into this age bracket.

 

[ManOfClay]

Curnow is overrated. Will do a few thing that look good but overall not worth the hype

 

[Juddernaut08]

You can have all the talent in the world, but you need aggression around the contest to succeed.

Your ruck and centre square mids set the tone. Of course all other parts of the ground are important, but if you can't win at the coal face you won't go far.

For me, Carlton are a mile off. Cripps is their only aggressive mid. Dow, O'Brien, etc. are going to get bashed up. And older light bodies like Murphy and Williams don't help.

More of the same for Carlton in 2019.

Haha at least try to get the names right! The drunken, incoherent ramblings of an old man staying up past his bedtime.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Curnow is overrated. Will do a few thing that look good but overall not worth the hype

So the type of young forwardr the dogs will be chasing hard then

 

[Juddernaut08]

Lmao lay it on thicker big fella

The gap between Curnow and Hipwood is larger than Hipwood to McKay.

Theres an argument to be made that McKay will be the best of the 3 as he is a freak matchup...as there is for Hippy.

Potentially all have massive ceilings though.

 

[Trav 20]

The original post in its entirety was a troll. Slightly passive aggressive, slightly incoherent. O’Brien doesn’t play as an inside midfielder - so he’s not getting belted in stoppages, Kennedy spent most of this year injured - so his impact was minimal.

You questioned the aggression of our mids and then the very next player you listed was Dow, who doesn’t lack any aggression whatsoever.

I’d love to think you’re putting down an insightful, well thought out post but the reality is you’re just throwing down the same tired Carlton tropes that any oppositon supporter has been trotting out all year.

Deadset broken record stuff.

I never said O'Brien played inside, I said he and others would get bashed up. vandenBerg plays on a wing, have you seen how he plays ?

This isn't a knock on their ability, but their maturity. When I see a midfield that includes Dow, O'Brien, Thomas, Murphy, and the very underwhelming Kennedy, I see an on ball brigade (you know - inside and outside) that is going to get physically done over during the course of the season. Until Cripps gets some support with big bodies you'll continue to get bashed up.

Your feelings don't get in the way of facts.

Edit: I forgot little Ed Curnow. At least he's mature even though he gives it back to the opposition more often than not.

 

[sosos]

Speaking of facts, Thomas does not play midfield.

 

[Trav 20]

Eh? Started the season as a 20yo with a limited preseason, got injured, managed 12 games over an interrupted season and started to put in some decent games by season’s end.

Fair enough. I was disappointed in what I saw, but he's still going. The raps on him at GWS were huge, but I've never seen him excel in any game of footy, either at GWS or Carlton.

He's very important, because he does have the size to be a brute of a midfielder. Poor bloody Cripps needs someone to step up.

 

[Trav 20]

Speaking of facts, Thomas does not play midfield.

I saw him picked on a wing in one of those "your best 22 for 2019", so assumed someone got the inside word there'd be a shift in position.

But put some other lightweight there. It matters little.

 

[Monkey King]

Fair enough. I was disappointed in what I saw, but he's still going. The raps on him at GWS were huge, but I've never seen him excel in any game of footy, either at GWS or Carlton.

Perhaps your expectations of a young player under the circumstances contributed to your disappointment. He’s 21yo, hopefully gets a full preseason in. Let him have a run at it.