Society/Culture Hypocrisy of The Left - part 3

[its free real estate]

There are methods of raising things. I'm not sure of the number of people who were directly sent this memo, but we can be confident it wasn't a "small discussion group". This wasn't a way of raising things.

From memory it was. It leaked out.

And yes, unfortunately sometimes you've gotta hold your tongue to just "get along", especially in your place of employment where most people - believe it or not - don't turn on their computer of a morning expecting a debate about the neuroticism of women. That's what being part of a team is about. After slagging off nearly everyone in Rugby League, Anthony Mundine learned this the hard way and went off to boxing where his "individualness" could become a financial asset instead of organisational liability.

But where is the line? Hold your tongue, OK: don't say racist/sexist things. Don't say mum?

 

[FireKrakouer]

I'm sure every woman loves sitting down at their desk in the morning and reading these sort of things from a co-worker.

Awesome team environment that will create

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Neuroticism (higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance).
○ This may contribute to the higher levels of anxiety women report on Googlegeist and to the lower number of women in high stress jobs.

Nearly every difference between men and women is interpreted as a form of women’s oppression. As with many things in life, gender differences are often a case of “grass being greener on the other side”; unfortunately, taxpayer and Google money is being spent to water only one side of the lawn.

If we, as a society, allow men to be more "feminine," then the gender gap will shrink, although probably because men will leave tech and leadership for traditionally "feminine" roles.

Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don't have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership.

As Gavin Mcciness states, there are no such thing as "hate-facts". If what he wrote is factually correct (it is) then play on.

 

[The Passenger]

Of all the shit that Google pulls, this guy chooses "too many women" as the problem he is going to tackle.

These incels need to learn to engage in quiet introspection.

To be fair to James, he does have a girlfriend (who didn't offer him any support) so the incel tag - assumedly - doesn't fit him.

But it was interesting she didn't offer him any support. Your partner won't agree with everything you do - nor should they. But on fairly major matters - and I would imagine him become a public figure out of nowhere would be considered a major matter - your partner will normally have your back (even if they don't agree with your position), unless you are well in the wrong. That she didn't support him at all says quite a lot to me.

I have to deal with software developers every day. Very smart people, but almost to a tee they are socially inept (As James appears to be, most likely due to him being on the autism scale, and for which I do have sympathy for him). But the social ineptness of developers works for well for me. Being able to converse with the suits and the nerds is a valuable skill.

 

[The Passenger]

As Gavin Mcciness states, there are no such thing as "hate-facts". If what he wrote is factually correct (it is) then play on.

As usual, it's more nuanced than that.

The person who wrote the very study James quoted said himself

“These sex differences in neuroticism are not very large, with biological sex perhaps accounting for only 10 percent of the variance.”

And once again, if you alienate a huge chunk of your co-workers, there will be ramifications, even if you are 100% correct on everything you say (which he isn't).

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Every business already has preferred speech codes. 30 pieces of flair anyone?

Is there any evidence workers are being smashed because they aren’t following these suggestions?

In other threads, defending the rights of workers to ignore employer demands is seen as a lefty thing.

I think most of us agree that the company can push this but there is no issue with workers talking about men and women provided it’s respectful.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Scotland]

A lot of it is debatable.

But in actuality the correctness of his statements are irrelevant.

When you sit down at your place of work in the morning you don't expect to be sent a memo which questions whether you were hired for the job based on your skills or to fulfil diversity criteria. This is what happened to approximately a quarter of Google employee's.

When a quarter of your workforce is feeling somewhat alienated due to the actions of one employee, then what is the likely course of action that is going to happen?

It's a can of worms. If companies are going to engage in gender diversity programs and whatnot then they are going to invite questions about whether their recruitment policy is meritorious.

I don't know 2/5 of FA about the world of IT but I've seen plenty of examples in resources and energy. Women are regularly hired for roles that they would not even be considered for if they were men in a level playing field. I'm not talking 15 years experience vs 20, I'm talking 1-2 vs 15-20. Now I've worked with plenty of people who have advanced their careers faster than most, but when every new hire is female and every promotion goes to an inexperienced female not even the most naive ideologue believes that there must be an amazing crop of women coming through at this time. This stuff does not foster a positive work environment, it simply makes KPIs look better so middle managers get bonuses.

Companies who do this shit put gender on the table. It's rich to then shut down discussion on gender issues, especially when they impact on people's livelihoods. Have we already reached the point where companies can mandate hiring based on gender but dissent will be punished? Geez I hope not.

 

[Craven Morehead]

I'm guessing you'd be less sarcastic if you were part of a group that regularly found itself on the outer in everyday life.

That's not the point though is it.
You stated that Qantas went through with this rubbish because they felt it would be good for business.
Explain how it's good for business when the only thing we here about it is disbelief.
Surely if it's that crucial to their bottom line they'd be advertising as such?
Fly Qantas because you'll feel so much better on arrival because you've traveled in such an inclusive space.

It's bullshit made up, as its free real estate stated, by some arts graduate HR middle manager who got his/her/its feeling hurt sometime and now wants to socially engineer his whole workforce.

 

[The Passenger]

It's a can of worms. If companies are going to engage in gender diversity programs and whatnot then they are going to invite questions about whether their recruitment policy is meritorious.

I don't know 2/5 of FA about the world of IT but I've seen plenty of examples in resources and energy. Women are regularly hired for roles that they would not even be considered for if they were men in a level playing field. I'm not talking 15 years experience vs 20, I'm talking 1-2 vs 15-20. Now I've worked with plenty of people who have advanced their careers faster than most, but when every new hire is female and every promotion goes to an inexperienced female not even the most naive ideologue believes that there must be an amazing crop of women coming through at this time. This stuff does not foster a positive work environment, it simply makes KPIs look better so middle managers get bonuses.

Companies who do this shit put gender on the table. It's rich to then shut down discussion on gender issues, especially when they impact on people's livelihoods. Have we already reached the point where companies can mandate hiring based on gender but dissent will be punished? Geez I hope not.

As usual it takes a West Coast supporter to talk about an issue with some sense

Agree with a lot of what you say, but it still comes back to alienating a huge chunk of your co-workers. That's just not gonna go down well even if you have everything on your side (and i'm not convinced James Damore did either).

I'll come up with a better response later (maybe), but its 3am and I was supposed to finish a pretty huge chunk of work 6 hours ago but I've got at least 2 to go, and I'm now seriously stoned and procrastinating fiercely.

 

[Father Jack]

That's not the point though is it.
You stated that Qantas went through with this rubbish because they felt it would be good for business.
Explain how it's good for business when the only thing we here about it is disbelief.
Surely if it's that crucial to their bottom line they'd be advertising as such?
Fly Qantas because you'll feel so much better on arrival because you've traveled in such an inclusive space.

It's bullshit made up, as its free real estate stated, by some arts graduate HR middle manager who got his/her/its feeling hurt sometime and now wants to socially engineer his whole workforce.

It's incredible how much the anti-PC crowd care about other people making an effort to be nice to groups the anti-PCers aren't part of.

 

[its free real estate]

It's incredible how much the anti-PC crowd care about other people making an effort to be nice to groups the anti-PCers aren't part of.

Moving the word "mum" into a class of offensive terms serves what purpose exactly? What language games would you have people play to placate people who will find ways to be aggrieved no matter what?

Why should we give in to people who are most likely mentally damaged? Does the most mentally ill win something?

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

This is the kind of person who rages about "cultural Marxism" all day.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/20/neo-nazi-plotted-attack-on-democrats-journalists

Neo-Nazi in coast guard plotted attack on Democrats and journalists, say prosecutors

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/20/neo-nazi-plotted-attack-on-democrats-journalists

The only identity politics posing a threat to the stability of Western society, comes in the form of violent and radical reactionary sentiment. It is playing out with increasing frequency, in acts of public violence, terrorism or demagoguery across the West and Europe. Teenagers and college kids have always been rebellious. Raging at tumblr or the odd inconsequential protest is a waste of emotional energy.

 

[Scotland]

It's incredible how much the anti-PC crowd care about other people making an effort to be nice to groups the anti-PCers aren't part of.

'I'm going to call everyone by gender neutral pronouns'
'Great, good on you'
'You have to call everyone by gender neutral pronouns'
'Excuse me?'

 

[its free real estate]

This is the kind of person who rages about "cultural Marxism" all day

Neo-Nazi in coast guard plotted attack on Democrats and journalists, say prosecutors

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/20/neo-nazi-plotted-attack-on-democrats-journalists
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/20/neo-nazi-plotted-attack-on-democrats-journalists

The only identity politics posing a threat to the stability of Western society, comes in the form of violent and radical reactionary sentiment. It is playing out with increasing frequency, in acts of public violence, terrorism or demagoguery across the West and Europe. Teenagers and college kids have always been rebellious. Raging at tumblr or the odd inconsequential protest is a waste of emotional energy.

What does this have to do with 'political correctness' DivideAndMultiply?

 

[Father Jack]

Moving the word "mum" into a class of offensive terms serves what purpose exactly? What language games would you have people play to placate people who will find ways to be aggrieved no matter what?

Why should we give in to people who are most likely mentally damaged? Does the most mentally ill win something?

The word 'mum' hasn't been moved into a class of offensive words, so your post is irrelevant.

'I'm going to call everyone by gender neutral pronouns'
'Great, good on you'
'You have to call everyone by gender neutral pronouns'
'Excuse me?'

Knock yourself out, but I have no idea what you're trying to prove

 

[FireKrakouer]

It's incredible how much the anti-PC crowd care about other people making an effort to be nice to groups the anti-PCers aren't part of.

It's good to encourage people to be "nice". But inconveniencing all of society, under the threat of penalty, to avoid offending 0.1% of people just doesn't gel for some of us. It would be easier to teach those 0.1% to not get upset over something when no offense was intended.

Last year I asked a married male client about his wife's thoughts on something, and he corrected me and said "my husband thinks xyz". There was no offense taken, common sense prevailed. Nowadays I do generally use the word "partner" instead, but I don't think corporations or the government need to enforce compelled speech upon people. Some people will always be rude jerks, some will try not to be. We don't need a nanny state forcing us to all play nicely.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

What does this have to do with 'political correctness' DivideAndMultiply?

This thread has constantly referenced so called indentity politics within the context of political correctness.

Reactionaries have their own brand of political correctness and indentity politics, this violence is a byproduct and conduit for those ideals and values. So it's directly relevant.

I don't see "leftwing" preceding the "Political correctness" in the thread title.

EDIT: TY its free real estate

 

[its free real estate]

The word 'mum' hasn't been moved into a class of offensive words, so your post is irrelevant.

You’ve spent the past dozen or so posts saying people should moderate their language in case anyone is offended by “mum” or “dad”, and castigating anyone who disagrees as being unsympathetic to people who have it worse than them.

 

[its free real estate]

This thread has constantly referenced "cultural Marxism"

You’re the first person to use the term in this thread.

 

[CheapCharlie]

Every business already has preferred speech codes. 30 pieces of flair anyone?

Is there any evidence workers are being smashed because they aren’t following these suggestions?

In other threads, defending the rights of workers to ignore employer demands is seen as a lefty thing.

I think most of us agree that the company can push this but there is no issue with workers talking about men and women provided it’s respectful.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I might have missed ot before...

What happened after your reported your workplace for having abestos lying around causing harm?

 

[Scotland]

Knock yourself out, but I have no idea what you're trying to prove

Your whole post is that people get their noses out of joint because others make an effort to be nice to certain groups.

While this would occur, it's disingenuous. People get their noses out of joint because of others imposing things upon them. If you want to address a mother and child and not use the word 'mum' because it might be offensive then I'm not stopping you, but don't send me a memo telling me I have to.

You (royal) can be as nice as you want to anyone. And you can you use any neutral, inoffensive language you choose. Me, I'm prepared to run the gauntlet and say words like 'mum' and 'dad' and if that offends someone then so be it - they can be offended.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

You’re the first person to use the term in this thread.

*shrugs*

I will happily correct my post.

The Political correctness is a scourge, Ben Shapiro, Jordan B. Peterson, Hypocrisy of the left and Islam thread etc. etc. have all blended into one blob for me.

 

[Father Jack]

Your whole post is that people get their noses out of joint because others make an effort to be nice to certain groups.

While this would occur, it's disingenuous. People get their noses out of joint because of others imposing things upon them. If you want to address a mother and child and not use the word 'mum' because it might be offensive then I'm not stopping you, but don't send me a memo telling me I have to.

You (royal) can be as nice as you want to anyone. And you can you use any neutral, inoffensive language you choose. Me, I'm prepared to run the gauntlet and say words like 'mum' and 'dad' and if that offends someone then so be it - they can be offended.

Why would I send you a memo telling you what to do if you don't work for me?

 

[Father Jack]

You’ve spent the past dozen or so posts saying people should moderate their language in case anyone is offended by “mum” or “dad”, and castigating anyone who disagrees as being unsympathetic to people who have it worse than them.

No i haven't.

 

[Father Jack]

It's good to encourage people to be "nice". But inconveniencing all of society, under the threat of penalty, to avoid offending 0.1% of people just doesn't gel for some of us. It would be easier to teach those 0.1% to not get upset over something when no offense was intended.

Last year I asked a married male client about his wife's thoughts on something, and he corrected me and said "my husband thinks xyz". There was no offense taken, common sense prevailed. Nowadays I do generally use the word "partner" instead, but I don't think corporations or the government need to enforce compelled speech upon people. Some people will always be rude jerks, some will try not to be. We don't need a nanny state forcing us to all play nicely.

That's the point though, it's a very minor little thing that people are getting upset about. All of society isn't being inconvenienced, it's just a few airline staff who are being asked to consider using a couple of different words

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

https://nypost.com/2019/02/20/numbe...ts-all-time-high-and-trump-to-blame-watchdog/

Number of hate groups in US reaches all time high

https://nypost.com/2019/02/20/numbe...ts-all-time-high-and-trump-to-blame-watchdog/

When we view political correctness within the frame of competing values, so the equality, care and plurality associated with "PC culture" vs the alternative, pride in the millitary, veneration of white conservative values, nationalist appeals to the flag, demonisation of Marxist or left politics as fundamentally at odds with Western civilization, it's easy to see which perspective is resulting in an increase in harm and violence.

So I suppose there is a case to be made that some version of political correctness or identity politics is a scourge. However the discussion as it stands is largely a spook. "Anti-PC" movements tend to be those actually inflicting societal harm, not their targets.