Autopsy JLT 2 v Carlscum - Player review

[Saintly Viewed]

Someone should name a top shelf red wine “the Sidebottom” perfect representation of age bringing out the best of something.

I’d drink to that....

The name might hinder sales

 

[Gaben]

If Grundy isn't himself, Collingwood aren't a top 12 side

Hahaha, please, is this a legitimate comment? It's our biggest area we would suffer in the event of injury, but to imply we'd become the 5th worst team in the league if he "isn't himself" let alone actually out injured is laughable.

He wasn't himself on Grand Final day and we nearly won the thing.... against the best team in the league.

 

[Knightmare]

Hahaha, please, is this a legitimate comment? It's our biggest area we would suffer in the event of injury, but to imply we'd become the 5th worst team in the league if he "isn't himself" let alone actually out injured is laughable.

He wasn't himself on Grand Final day and we nearly won the thing.... against the best team in the league.

I wouldn't have considered West Coast the best side in the league in 2018 (nor were Collingwood). I'd also claim almost every year it's not the best side that wins the flag. Richmond I didn't consider the best in 2017. Collingwood I considered the best team in the competition the year following the 2010 premiership, but not the best in 2010. I didn't see Brisbane in their three premierships the best each year.

I agree that Grundy didn't have his usual impact during the Grand Final with his impact at stoppages and that's what allowed West Coast's midfield to break even and help them win. In saying that, Grundy convincingly won the hitouts with 49 (and 8 to Cox) v a combined 29 to West Coast so having him through the ruck and all the attention he copped throughout was still favourable in Collingwood's direction towards the result.

I consider the competition 1-13 to be dead even. Almost nothing separating it. Gold Coast are arguably historically poor, Western Bulldogs have an overstocked midfielder and some good pieces in defence but nothing else, St Kilda don't have adequate talent other than a few good midfielders, Carlton without Docherty aren't a top 8 contender and Fremantle while their KPP stocks are looking healthier and they've got some speed are also badly lacking in top to bottom list quality.

All the other teams last year finished with a percentage of 104 or better (except Brisbane who with another year of experience + the additions of Neale and Lyons who are respectively top five in the game stoppage players) and seen themselves improve defensively by a staggering amount the past two seasons I'm leaning towards placing in that conversation with last years top 12.

Teams are winning premierships the year after finishing low in the top 8 (West Coast) or out of the top 8 (Western Bulldogs, Richmond). Any of those top 12 + Brisbane could finish anywhere inside that top 13 and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. My educated guess for now is Brisbane and Sydney are 12/13 in some order. Every other team from that in my view even top grouping if Grundy was to miss the season I could see passing Collingwood by. He's that important. Fit and healthy, he can elevate Collingwood to another top 4 position, without him, I don't have Collingwood making the top 8. No one in the game for mine is better or more important to winning.

 

[Knightmare]

When Elliott was on the field he looked terrific, but cramping up after around half game time is a bit concerning. IMHO that makes him doubtful for round 1.



Grundy is so important to us that it’s hard to imagine he would have played JLT2 if there were any clouds over him. Maybe he’s building up fitness? Maybe he was under instruction to take it easy so our midfielders would work harder?



I noticed the same thing in the first quarter - it felt like going back to the horror days circa 2015 / 2016 when we were snail slow with our ball movement ...

... but I thought as the game progressed we started to find our rhythm and were better at quickly and effectively moving the ball out of defence.

I tend not to worry about cramps. That happens often in the preseason and first round. Just need to get them match fit through match play. Elliott's finishing when running central to improve his angle and snapping on his right though looked terrific. He just fit in seamlessly. Assuming injury free, he's in my round one side.

With Grundy it looked like missing all that time after Roughead stood on his foot and missing that time has mattered towards his conditioning and match readyness.

Agree with you ball movement at the start was the concern and as you say improved as the game progressed but still probably didn't feel as easy as 2018.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I wouldn't have considered West Coast the best side in the league in 2018 (nor were Collingwood). I'd also claim almost every year it's not the best side that wins the flag. Richmond I didn't consider the best in 2017. Collingwood I considered the best team in the competition the year following the 2010 premiership, but not the best in 2010. I didn't see Brisbane in their three premierships the best each year.

I agree that Grundy didn't have his usual impact during the Grand Final with his impact at stoppages and that's what allowed West Coast's midfield to break even and help them win. In saying that, Grundy convincingly won the hitouts with 49 (and 8 to Cox) v a combined 29 to West Coast so having him through the ruck and all the attention he copped throughout was still favourable in Collingwood's direction towards the result.

I consider the competition 1-13 to be dead even. Almost nothing separating it. Gold Coast are arguably historically poor, Western Bulldogs have an overstocked midfielder and some good pieces in defence but nothing else, St Kilda don't have adequate talent other than a few good midfielders, Carlton without Docherty aren't a top 8 contender and Fremantle while their KPP stocks are looking healthier and they've got some speed are also badly lacking in top to bottom list quality.

All the other teams last year finished with a percentage of 104 or better (except Brisbane who with another year of experience + the additions of Neale and Lyons who are respectively top five in the game stoppage players) and seen themselves improve defensively by a staggering amount the past two seasons I'm leaning towards placing in that conversation with last years top 12.

Teams are winning premierships the year after finishing low in the top 8 (West Coast) or out of the top 8 (Western Bulldogs, Richmond). Any of those top 12 + Brisbane could finish anywhere inside that top 13 and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. My educated guess for now is Brisbane and Sydney are 12/13 in some order. Every other team from that in my view even top grouping if Grundy was to miss the season I could see passing Collingwood by. He's that important. Fit and healthy, he can elevate Collingwood to another top 4 position, without him, I don't have Collingwood making the top 8. No one in the game for mine is better or more important to winning.

These are interesting takes.

Let’s say Grundy didn’t play the season, we would use Moore I suspect and some of Cox and maybe a little Roughead.
Moore aside, none of the others could be a best 5 in league ruck. Cox might be the closest but suspect he’d be more adequate than starring. He taps well at a minimum.
Moore certainly could be. Athletic, speedy, clever, great attitude. And would run at the ball. He’d be a top 5 ruck.
Grundy being top 2 or best (Gawn in that duo.)

That said, no way, based on mid field talent alone are we not competing for the eight.

Grundy is vital, as is De Goey for us because of their unique skill set and abilities.
That’s why we can win a flag (far from a given) because we are putting together high end talent pieces.

Grundy, De Goey as said then Pendlebury, Treloar, Beams, Sidebottom... just too many pieces not to push us to wins in the 12 plus range of wins.

On best teams of 2018, I think we earned third best overall. With Richmond and West Coast the better two in that order.

Certainly very even competition wise, so my one fear is, did we allow the golden opportunity to pass us last season? Or were we stupendous to our true ability.

Only this season can begin those answers.

 

[nahnah]

West Coast were the best team last season, Richmond were the least impacted by injuries. When West Coast had their key forwards they were basically unbeatable.

 

[Knightmare]

West Coast were the best team last season, Richmond were the least impacted by injuries. When West Coast had their key forwards they were basically unbeatable.

% is the best indicator of strength of team in a season.

Richmond and Melbourne were the two best sides last year and both stronger than West Coast.

GWS and Melbourne the most talented which is a different conversation again.

These are interesting takes.

Let’s say Grundy didn’t play the season, we would use Moore I suspect and some of Cox and maybe a little Roughead.
Moore aside, none of the others could be a best 5 in league ruck. Cox might be the closest but suspect he’d be more adequate than starring. He taps well at a minimum.
Moore certainly could be. Athletic, speedy, clever, great attitude. And would run at the ball. He’d be a top 5 ruck.
Grundy being top 2 or best (Gawn in that duo.)

That said, no way, based on mid field talent alone are we not competing for the eight.

Grundy is vital, as is De Goey for us because of their unique skill set and abilities.
That’s why we can win a flag (far from a given) because we are putting together high end talent pieces.

Grundy, De Goey as said then Pendlebury, Treloar, Beams, Sidebottom... just too many pieces not to push us to wins in the 12 plus range of wins.

On best teams of 2018, I think we earned third best overall. With Richmond and West Coast the better two in that order.

Certainly very even competition wise, so my one fear is, did we allow the golden opportunity to pass us last season? Or were we stupendous to our true ability.

Only this season can begin those answers.

If Grundy wasn't there my suspicion is Roughead would slot into the ruck and things would continue on with everyone else staying where they are. Though my move would be (though Moore's impact in defence v Carlton was the first time I'd need to think about this) Moore through the ruck and everything else as it would be.

On midfield strength only Geelong I rate ahead of Collingwood. Both clubs have x5 top 40 in the game mids. Collingwood with Sidebottom/Treloar/Beams/Adams/Pendlebury, Geelong slightly better with Danger/J.Selwood/Ablett/Duncan/T.Kelly. But absolutely that counts. On the other hand, Collingwood outside of Gold Coast and Western Bulldogs have the next weakest combination of KPPs in the competition which hurts and is where the club were exploited in last year's Grand Final with McGovern/Kennedy/Darling the three most influential on the ground.

 

[nahnah]

% is the best indicator of strength of team in a season.

Richmond and Melbourne were the two best sides last year and both stronger than West Coast.

GWS and Melbourne the most talented which is a different conversation again.



If Grundy wasn't there my suspicion is Roughead would slot into the ruck and things would continue on with everyone else staying where they are. Though my move would be (though Moore's impact in defence v Carlton was the first time I'd need to think about this) Moore through the ruck and everything else as it would be.

On midfield strength only Geelong I rate ahead of Collingwood. Both clubs have x5 top 40 in the game mids. Collingwood with Sidebottom/Treloar/Beams/Adams/Pendlebury, Geelong slightly better with Danger/J.Selwood/Ablett/Duncan/T.Kelly. But absolutely that counts. On the other hand, Collingwood outside of Gold Coast and Western Bulldogs have the next weakest combination of KPPs in the competition which hurts and is where the club were exploited in last year's Grand Final with McGovern/Kennedy/Darling the three most influential on the ground.

Youre joking surely. west coast were way better than Melbourne.

 

[Apex36]

I’m getting too excited, not long now.

Same fixture in season and we walk away with a 100 point win. They are a rabble, it’s the disdain talking but still a valid. Thank god Murphy didn’t fall to us in the draft, what a passenger.

Aside from the last quarter I felt for the large part we defended well as a team, skills and execution are still off but we still managed to transition the ball end to end via handball and run through their zone. 110 more possessions and still won the tackles, we were camped in their half for most of the day. There was a lot to like today.

BOG - for me was a tough one but I’ll go with Crisp. I thought contribution across the team was fairly even today. He just rips in week in week out, and since moving to the backline has taken it up a level. Defends well aerially and his run and carry is brilliant, sets us crucially going forward and is good shifting from defence to offence when we get a turnover.

Sidebottom - it’s almost cruel to have so much class in one body. Coasted along today, could be a Brownlow year for him.

Treloar - his work rate is out of control, running toward goal that is. Would still prefer he didn’t have so many inside 50’s, burns the ball too much when he’s coming off a searching run. His linking in transition and breaking lines is second to none. Tackles hard too.

Beams - another that does not waste possessions in close. His handball out of contest to somebody running full pelt toward our goal is amazing. Will step it up for the season proper, so much class and courage. Will be a clearance king once he works out how Grundy taps.

Pendlebury - only superlatives for this man as a leader, I was a detractor in previous years. He is playing a more team oriented role, but when he has ball in hand things happen!

Grundy - played at about 50% capacity today this is what you want from your Rolls Royce in the preseason. Not his best game by his standards. Loved his lace out left foot pass into the 50. Should have come off in the last after his knock.

C Brown - has a cracking game I thought, moved well in traffic and disposed of the ball well. Handballs to advantage are a key strength. Broke the lines well today.

T Brown - it’s almost like there is a brotherly rivalry, he was quiet this week although game time was low.

Maynard - first game back. Will be better for the run, was very rusty skill wise. Goes hard, not his best game but needs to tip in if he wants to keep his spot in the 22.

Langdon - another who was pretty poor today. Didn’t take too many intercepts, and disposal was troublesome. Competes well aerially, but lacks a bit of intent when chasing or hunting a ground ball.

Howe - only played the half, if you didn’t know he was all class you would delist immediately. Hopefully right for round 1

Aish - will have to watch Aish more closely when at the ground. Goes missing too much, not sure if that’s because he’s been given a role as lock down defender. Anybody have a clue?

Moore - say hello to the AA fullback. He is too dominant and Curnow had no hope. I can’t see any forward having his measure this year. His pace, ability to read the flight means that he is rarely caught by surprise in a marking contest. Almost reads it too well, sometimes arrives at the contest too early or with too much pace. That will improve with age and experience. Spreads well with his kicking and speed for his height. Daniher will be no concern come Anzac Day.

Cox - Eddy really needs to push the point with the AFL that they need to apply rules consistently. Cox is always on the wrong side of the umpires. Competes well, I would prefer to see him as the primary target similar to last year...have everybody rove off his crumbs.

Mihocek - you know what you get from him. Competes hard, creates a contest but isn’t a match winner...which is fine you need team players and a foul for Cox.

Varcoe - his stats don’t justify his impact on a game. He’s always there to apply pressure and to make the momentum changing tackle or kick the goal to change the tide. Down on last week, but a lock for round 1 for me.

Elliot - had a bit of a scare in the 2nd where he went off and got treatment. The fact it was both legs suggests cramps, but that can be a sign of sciatic issues too. Hopefully fit for round 1 as everything functions better with him on the field. Pure class and love seeing him roam further up the ground, he doesn’t waste touches and creates opportunities and forward movements.

Goldsack - not sure if he’ll get a game round 1, typical Goldsack game...does the team things well. He’s the glue that keeps things working, covering for others etc. I think on account of that Buckley may play him round 1 actually. Definite top 30 player...meaning as the season unfolds he’ll play more often than not.

Thomas - brilliant again today, he is a class act honestly both in the midfield as marketing target forward or even crumbing. Sharp shooter and great in traffic, basketball skills to the fore.

Mayne - plenty of it but not damaging, needs to be more confident with moving the ball on with purpose. I suspect he is at risk come round 1, but similar to Goldsack in that Buckley loves disciplined role players. I’m not sure we have room for more than 3 of these. Will be horses for courses all year for him I suspect. Might find his way back to a wing again...will be tough with another quality mid in the fold this year.

Phillips - owns his wing role. Had a more composed game this week, that’s my big knock on him. He coughs it up too easy under pressure.

Crocker - he is a good VFL player. Won’t get a game in our forward line and doesn’t have the skills to play midfield or wing.

Greenwood - another disciplined role player, Buckley loves his type but there is only so much room in one team. We need to strike a balance between grunt and class and I don’t think he will find a spot in the team. Although duckwood round 1 will be tempting. Ineffective game for him today, plays a role but needs to do more than apply pressure and tag if he wants to play in this team...his kicking is a problem.

Roughhead - will probably play Rd 1 given Reid’s quads are cooked. Needs to ruck more, I don’t want Grundy to burn out.

I’m not a massive Langdon fan, but he had 12 intercepts on Monday. That’s elite by any standard.

 

[sideswipe]

% is the best indicator of strength of team in a season.

Richmond and Melbourne were the two best sides last year and both stronger than West Coast.

GWS and Melbourne the most talented which is a different conversation again.



If Grundy wasn't there my suspicion is Roughead would slot into the ruck and things would continue on with everyone else staying where they are. Though my move would be (though Moore's impact in defence v Carlton was the first time I'd need to think about this) Moore through the ruck and everything else as it would be.

On midfield strength only Geelong I rate ahead of Collingwood. Both clubs have x5 top 40 in the game mids. Collingwood with Sidebottom/Treloar/Beams/Adams/Pendlebury, Geelong slightly better with Danger/J.Selwood/Ablett/Duncan/T.Kelly. But absolutely that counts. On the other hand, Collingwood outside of Gold Coast and Western Bulldogs have the next weakest combination of KPPs in the competition which hurts and is where the club were exploited in last year's Grand Final with McGovern/Kennedy/Darling the three most influential on the ground.

Agree on percentage being a strong indicator - but I suggest you need to factor in the relative draws as well. Richmond's H&A % given their tough draw meant they were the best by a mile, well ahead of the Dees with an easy draw. Which made the Tigers' loss to us so much more enjoyable.

Also means we (and Melbourne) need to be a lot better this year.

 

[sr36]

I wouldn't have considered West Coast the best side in the league in 2018 (nor were Collingwood). I'd also claim almost every year it's not the best side that wins the flag. Richmond I didn't consider the best in 2017. Collingwood I considered the best team in the competition the year following the 2010 premiership, but not the best in 2010. I didn't see Brisbane in their three premierships the best each year.

Have you considered that maybe you were just downright wrong on a fair few of these calls?

In terms of the Grundy reliance, you could be right, but if you are it's based on gut feel - no use trying to support it with the "evidence" of a practice match.

 

[sr36]

% is the best indicator of strength of team in a season.

Richmond and Melbourne were the two best sides last year and both stronger than West Coast.

GWS and Melbourne the most talented which is a different conversation again.

Best percentage often comes down to which team is the best front runner and smashes the lowly teams by the most. Eg. Melbourne and Geelong having the 2nd and 3rd best percentages last year.

 

[jonbe54]

Best percentage often comes down to which team is the best front runner and smashes the lowly teams by the most. Eg. Melbourne and Geelong having the 2nd and 3rd best percentages last year.

Yep flat track bullies and downhill skiers of the highest calibre.

 

[Knightmare]

Youre joking surely. west coast were way better than Melbourne.

Melbourne played the better H+A season as indicated by their %. West Coast ran over them in the final, though had the game been played in Melbourne and had Hogan been available as he was during the season, my suspicion is the result would have been a different one.

Agree on percentage being a strong indicator - but I suggest you need to factor in the relative draws as well. Richmond's H&A % given their tough draw meant they were the best by a mile, well ahead of the Dees with an easy draw. Which made the Tigers' loss to us so much more enjoyable.

Also means we (and Melbourne) need to be a lot better this year.

You're right to note Melbourne's fixture was easier and I agree with you that Richmond ahead of Melbourne were the best side last year. Their % was also higher. Geelong at their % have a case ahead of Melbourne given a slightly harder draw and slightly higher % again. Had completely forgotten about them.

Best percentage often comes down to which team is the best front runner and smashes the lowly teams by the most. Eg. Melbourne and Geelong having the 2nd and 3rd best percentages last year.

Based on percentages. Richmond was the standout with Geelong and Melbourne both better than Collingwood and West Coast in 2018 and those other two standouts.

Sure a statement can be made about teams that have higher percentages are typically better frontrunners, but that's all part of it. If a good team struggles to put away a bad team, that's another factor that separates the good from the great or the good from the better teams. Those teams with the higher percentages also for the most part when losing lose by less and that's largely luck statistics tell us if we look at narrow losses from year to year. There is a good piece on this in this years AFL prospectus.

Percentage rather than wins/losses has from year to year proven the best indicator of future performance if you go through the years. It would also be a safer bet to have Richmond/Geelong/Melbourne and one other team than it would be West Coast/Collingwood/Richmond and one other as top 4 sides this year.

Richmond/Geelong/Melbourne/West Coast as such are the probable top 4 sides with Collingwood projected to finish 5th, though my view is putting this theory aside that Adelaide will be much stronger this season and a genuine top 4 chance and firmly planted into my top 6 despite their poor 12th place finish or and 12th ranked percentage.

Naturally, I very much hope I'm wrong though re. 2019!

 

[Sea fog]

Adelaide has a favourable draw, hence they're being rated highly by pundits.

 

[sr36]

Adelaide has a favourable draw, hence they're being rated highly by pundits.

Many are probably also assuming that last year's form was a camp related anomaly.

Personally, I expect them to remain in the middle of the pack. I think they've got some significant gaps.

 

[sr36]

Sure a statement can be made about teams that have higher percentages are typically better frontrunners, but that's all part of it. If a good team struggles to put away a bad team, that's another factor that separates the good from the great or the good from the better teams. Those teams with the higher percentages also for the most part when losing lose by less and that's largely luck statistics tell us if we look at narrow losses from year to year. There is a good piece on this in this years AFL prospectus.

Percentages are often greatly affected by game plan.

I went with the term frontrunner, but really I should have said the team with the more attacking game plan, who run forward harder are often the team who end up with the higher percentage.

The attacking game plan may result in them losing some games by more, but they also win games by more. If they are a good team, they'll win more than they lose and end up with a higher percentage than a similar standard team with a less offensive game plan, because the bigger losses are more than offset by the bigger wins. Which is how Melbourne ended up with a higher percentage than WCE last year.

Similarly, if they are a weak team, an attacking game plan will result in them having a lower percentage than a similar standard team with a defensive game plan.

Sorry, bloody confusing, but I found it hard to explain.

 

[sr36]

I’m not a massive Langdon fan, but he had 12 intercepts on Monday. That’s elite by any standard.

I am a Langdon fan and it's pretty clear to me that some will criticise him regardless of performance. A bit too laconic for some, so his errors are magnified.

 

[Apex36]

Good question! Never thought about it and have as yet no thoughts on it worth expressing. Nevertheless, Mihochek's role seems pertinent in the context of the new rule. I'd be interested in the views of the Apex's, Scodog's and others of that cyber ilk. I can't see a spot for him in defence. He seems more comfortable in attack to me.

I’m not sure of the logic regarding the new rules being a disadvantage to Mihocek. Are they saying he’s better 2 on 1 than 1 on 1? Seems a bit bizarre really. Anyway, centre bounces aside, it’s irrelevant anyway, and if we get a break from a centre bounce you’d expect the targets to be either Cox or JDG.

I’d wager that Mihocek’s average JLT could be put down to the fact that Jordy wasn’t playing and teams could afford to put more time in to him. Once he’s 3rd banana again I fully expect him to grab his opportunities and get his 1-2 goals a game against 3rd defenders.

 

[Knightmare]

Percentages are often greatly affected by game plan.

I went with the term frontrunner, but really I should have said the team with the more attacking game plan, who run forward harder are often the team who end up with the higher percentage.

The attacking game plan may result in them losing some games by more, but they also win games by more. If they are a good team, they'll win more than they lose and end up with a higher percentage than a similar standard team with a less offensive game plan, because the bigger losses are more than offset by the bigger wins. Which is how Melbourne ended up with a higher percentage than WCE last year.

Similarly, if they are a weak team, an attacking game plan will result in them having a lower percentage than a similar standard team with a defensive game plan.

Sorry, bloody confusing, but I found it hard to explain.

I understand what you're saying and there are parts I agree on.

Though if in more close games, there are more losses that will occur as small leads can be overcome with teams still thinking they can get back into it whereas with large deficits teams often give up just feeling demoralised. Which again goes into the - if you've got a higher % you're going to over coming seasons do better than a team that had more wins but a lower percentage on average.

For those interested Daniel Hoyne covers this in the 'It's not about the 'w'' piece.

Noting Geelong in 2014 as a key case study with all those wins and an ordinary percentage. The piece also talks about how unlucky Melbourne were to lose a number of the games they lost.

An interesting read anyway which backs up the stats from over the years to suggest percentage is a greater indicator of performance than wins on average over a span of years and as a predictor of performance the following year.

 

[TradeDraft]

With Grundy looking other than that one spectacular kick fairly ordinary throughout, Collingwood even with a far more talented midfielder didn't look that fantastic. It's not a great sign and it's going to take another Brownlow medal standard season from Grundy as in 2018 for Collingwood to go far - taking the club as far as he can take them.

If I had to pick out something else other than just Grundy that I was left unsatisfied with. I'd say the ball movement from defence was slower and less threatening than I would have liked. It didn't feel like 2018 ball movement and that speed and aggressiveness moving the ball offensively needs to jump up a gear.

That might because they where pretty much all Crusing thru the Game. Treloar was the only 1 going 100%

 

[sr36]

Noting Geelong in 2014 as a key case study with all those wins and an ordinary percentage. The piece also talks about how unlucky Melbourne were to lose a number of the games they lost.r.

I daresay us in 2012 were in the same bracket as tje Cats. I think that winning more than your fair share of close games isn't just luck related that self belief and confidence also plays a massive part. These two teams had recently been at the top of the pile and still had unshakable self belief even after performance had dropped, thus they won their close gamez anf their win loss and subsequent ladder position flattered them. I don't think these two teams and their experiences are particularly relevant to the coming season as i don't think any current team has had a sustained period at the pointy end or had similar periods of dominance in order to have the same sense of self belief.

 

[Knightmare]

I daresay us in 2012 were in the same bracket as tje Cats. I think that winning more than your fair share of close games isn't just luck related that self belief and confidence also plays a massive part. These two teams had recently been at the top of the pile and still had unshakable self belief even after performance had dropped, thus they won their close gamez anf their win loss and subsequent ladder position flattered them. I don't think these two teams and their experiences are particularly relevant to the coming season as i don't think any current team has had a sustained period at the pointy end or had similar periods of dominance in order to have the same sense of self belief.

Agree with this. Particularly there being no dominant team.

That's my point about 1-12+Brisbane. It's anyone's game. Teams going all the way from outside the 8 two years in a row. West Coast weren't anything flash in 2017 and had a ton of retirements and even with key players out went all the way. It's an unusual and unpredictable time in football. But great as a fan with most teams having just as much of a shot as any of the recent premiers.

 

[TradeDraft]

Agree with this. Particularly there being no dominant team.

That's my point about 1-12+Brisbane. It's anyone's game. Teams going all the way from outside the 8 two years in a row. West Coast weren't anything flash in 2017 and had a ton of retirements and even with key players out went all the way. It's an unusual and unpredictable time in football. But great as a fan with most teams having just as much of a shot as any of the recent premiers.

Its about making the 8 and Hit Form at the Right Time

 

[josewales]

It should not be forgotten that Grundy has missed a fair chunk of the preseason post Christmas due to a toe injury - at least 2-3 weeks - same with Howe. So any disappointment with their output or performances in the JLT should be of minor concern. They will both build and improve.
Least of our worries.