Labour party has gone full socialist

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Seeds said:
Yes great you like stealing from the hard work and talents of others. Great morals you have there.
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When you don't know what "socialism" is.

Capitalism as it stands is built off theft. It's the theft of the surplus value of workers labour, so the hard work and talent of others.

Socialism involves the end of commodity production, that isn't a simple redistribution of wealth.
 

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aCunningPlan said:
“Just a week ago, the Coalition was accusing Bill Shorten of being a communist for his plan to subsidise the wages of childcare workers.

Now, they have gone all Karl Marx by outlining a plan that effectively means the government of the day has an equity share in the private mortgages of home owners.”

https://www.theage.com.au/federal-e...-will-have-to-come-later-20190512-p51mii.html
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It only counts if it's not a lie.
Which it is.
Hail Mary stuff from the Libs.

Next it will be free cider and Pork belly.
campaigner could lie straight in bed.
 
Sausages said:
Given the absolute lack of anything resembling big picture, multi-tiered thinking in your response, let me follow suit:

You're making good cash.

Other's aren't.

You should be taxed more since you can pay more and I have zero issues with your tears.

The longer you keep thinking the solution is GDP increasing, the more difficulty you create for everyone around you.
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I have no problem being taxed more. I advocate it based on utilitarian reasons. In fact I advocate wealth taxes. What I am against is policies that disincentivise effort, utilising talent and take away hope.
 
HurleyHepsHird said:
When you don't know what "socialism" is.

Capitalism as it stands is built off theft. It's the theft of the surplus value of workers labour, so the hard work and talent of others.

Socialism involves the end of commodity production, that isn't a simple redistribution of wealth.
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Face palm. This has long been discredited in economics. Your views on economics are the equivalent of anti vaxxers in medicine and climate deniers in science.

Ps I'm a worker. Not a capital owner.
 
Seeds said:
I'm not a conservative. I'm a progressive.
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Seeds said:
I have no problem being taxed more. I advocate it based on utilitarian reasons. In fact I advocate wealth taxes. What I am against is policies that disincentivise effort, utilising talent and take away hope.
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Re-reading your OP through the prism of this post makes for an interesting response....

What I can gather from matching the 2 positions is that effort, talent and hope to you = income.

Expanding on what I have said earlier....if you think GDP is a measure of success, sustainability, and is a worthwhile outcome for government and industry to be judged on, you are missing the entire point.

The Law of Supply and Demand (aka, "the market") is not a tool which has the capacity to improve the living standards of those who cannot influence the market, as has been shown repeatedly over the last 30 years. Thus, governments increasingly have to tweak and interfere with the market forces to satisfy the electorate, since any time the investors dry up, growth slows and the market shrinks, with the resultant effects on services.

The entire system is crumbling as a consequence. And people are still concerned about how much childcare they have to pay.....

Adam Smith wouldn't recognise many aspects of this "free market" that he envisioned and which has spawned the political philosophy of the modern, free market, capitalised state. We exist in a loop of ever decreasing spirals with everyone concerned about the effects on their 700m2 and that's it.
Here's a thought for you....if 50.1% of people vote for something, that means 49.9% are against it. That's the democratic process at work. What it means, in effect, is if you can encourage just 0.2% of the 50.1% to change their vote, your policy vision wins. This is how the democratic process ACTUALLY works. It's not about encouraging a majority, simply a key minority to advocate change. Hence why, government policy initiatives become so fixated on ever smaller sections of the populace and ever narrower in their positive effects. The concept that if it's good for me, I will vote for it has a great many failings. So long as the other 49.9% aren't too disenfranchised by winning the vote of the 0.2%, everything is cool.

And when people advocate for more control through representation, liberals on both sides decry the initiative as infringing on personal freedom. Nobody is free. We exist within a system that requires certain things to be maintained and those things COST...money, time, effort, resources. And your personal reward shouldn't be measured by the size of your payslip but rather the maintenance of the overall system. The sooner we put aside concepts like "personal freedom" as markers of the health of society or as virtues to be lauded at the expense of everything else, the better. Both sides of Australian politics are guilty of this type of thinking and have been for years.

Every political system should be judged on what it DOES, rather than what it SAYS it does.
 
nobbyiscool said:
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I support wealth taxes and death taxes.

I like progressive music and hate country music with a passion.

I would like religion to be treated as a mental health problem and want religious schools banned or at least only allowed on weekends.

I have no problem with consensual incest, bestiality or public nudity being made legal.

Do you really think they are going to let me into the conservative club? Im more progressive then most lefties.
 
nobbyiscool said:
If you change a few words here - ie. replace "wages of jobs" with "bank balances", replace "womens jobs" with "middle-class swing voters" - you're basically describing Howard and Costello's middle-class welfare of the late 90s. Doubt anyone is calling them socialists.



Here's the thing - if you redesigned childcare today, in the age where we want to elevate women to a position of true equality - child care wouldn't be set up anything like it is today. It would be more like school, where you have a public system that is largely free (that Liberals undermined whenever they're in government) and you'd have a private system that bluebloods would pay for, because they believe where you go to school and the networks you make are more important than your brains, ability or hardwork.

I don't think we're ever likely to get to that - I'm not even sure I'd want us to - but if we did, it wouldn't be because of "socialism", it would be because we recognise that women (who are still primary caregivers in the majority of cases) have an important role to play in the workforce, and they add to the workplace and to society when they are able to work.
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I agree on your point about setting up universal childcare like school. It would happen under old labour but not new labour. New labour would means test it.
 
Mofra said:
Yep, must be all those childcare workers buying in Toorak...
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Toorak people are mostly aristocrats who pass wealth down through generations. They arent just high income earners. Ironically shorten has no interest in taxing the unearned portion of Toorak residents wealth. Typical socialist mentality. Doesnt understand the difference between unearned and earned wealth.
 
Seeds said:
Face palm. This has long been discredited in economics. Your views on economics are the equivalent of anti vaxxers in medicine and climate deniers in science.

Ps I'm a worker. Not a capital owner.
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Damn dude, you are dumb as hell.

What's been discredited, the idea of surplus labour value, capital being the product of social relations, the concept of "commodity production"? What school of economics specifically addresses these concepts, let alone debunks them?

LTV started with Adam Smith not Marx and there are numerous theories of value, that stretch beyond Marxian materialism. Ya big ol dickhead.
 
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