Coach Fremantle: where to now after Lyon?

[Duskfire]

The loss of Lachie Neale was a disaster for Freo. Fyfe is carrying the load in the midfield on his own. The club have recruited really well in the last couple of years with Lobb, Hogan, Conca, Cerra and Brayshaw. They need 2 A grade mids eg Kelly, Coniglio if they are going to play in finals.

Yup they need to do their best to convince Kelly to join them. They need Kelly far more then West Coast.

 

[West Coast 06]

I was at the game on Saturday night - Langdon's (and others but he was worst) crap kicking in the first quarter burned Freo. In the second half it got to the point that it was funny that every Freo shot hit the post or missed - Matera didn't make the distance from 35m - was just a groan fest and one of those games where everything goes right for one side and nothing for the other - + (ducks head at the hate to come) Umpiring was pretty woeful - scratched my head at a lot of the decisions . . . Freo got frees in defence and WC in attack

Just on the umpiring, Freo’s Defence and West Coast’s attack are the same area of the ground. The area most of the match was played in. Kind of makes sense really doesn’t it??

 

[Freomaniac]

Maniac do you think club will part ways Lyon at the end of the year?

To be Brutally Honest, I dont know. I personally want him to see out this season at least. I hope freo get at least 2, possibly 3 more wins from not until the end of the season.

If he was out of contract this year with the goal of getting finals to get that contract extension, he would be sacked already if not, close to it. The decision would be easier. Only problem is North, Carlton and Possibly saints are chasing after a new coach.

It would be Ironic If we Sacked Ross Lyon with a year to go on his contract just like Mark Harvey before him.

Because he is out of contract next season, I personally would give him one more year..... unless something random hapens out of the blue.

I cant speak for all dockers fans on the freo board. I still think we have improved a fair bit from last season. We have been more competitive for most games. We got belted by 50 points or more 9 times last year. This year its only been one.

 

[Freomaniac]

The loss of Lachie Neale was a disaster for Freo. Fyfe is carrying the load in the midfield on his own. The club have recruited really well in the last couple of years with Lobb, Hogan, Conca, Cerra and Brayshaw. They need 2 A grade mids eg Kelly, Coniglio if they are going to play in finals.

Look Again, I dont mind constructive critism. But look at the whole freo list this time last year.

Freo had one of the worst, if not, the worst forward line in the comp. Every man and his dog knew Freo needed a quality Key forward or two.

It was sad that Neale was averagine 30 disposals a game last season with no KPF to kick to.

Again, Freo made the best of a bad situation. We traded out neale to Brisbane, got a 1st and 2nd for him. we used those neale picks to get hogan.

Essentially we traded Neale for Hogan.

I would love to get Cogniglio and Kelly. Got the money to get both considering Sandilands and Ballantyne and mundy on the way out along with some duds on decent money.

Yup they need to do their best to convince Kelly to join them. They need Kelly far more then West Coast.

This is where things get interesting.

I fear tim kelly will become another des headland. Kelly gets a lot of midfield protection because you are more focused on shutting down selwood, dangerfield and Ablett.

He goes to freo, he wont get that same protection.

Then again, I said the same about brad hill and he is in our top 5 best performing players this season.

 

[estibador]

Just on the umpiring, Freo’s Defence and West Coast’s attack are the same area of the ground. The area most of the match was played in. Kind of makes sense really doesn’t it??

It might make sense if that was true.

Inside 50s: Freo 60, WC 50

 

[West Coast 06]

It might make sense if that was true.

Inside 50s: Freo 60, WC 50

Possesion heat map.

 

[estibador]

View attachment 709771Possesion heat map.

Never been sure how to interpret those heat maps exactly, so I googled it and this came up:

The Possession Heatmap is from left to right, left is the defensive end and to the right is attack.

So those maps actually support my point then?

 

[Juddernaut08]

Look Again, I dont mind constructive critism. But look at the whole freo list this time last year.

Freo had one of the worst, if not, the worst forward line in the comp. Every man and his dog knew Freo needed a quality Key forward or two.

It was sad that Neale was averagine 30 disposals a game last season with no KPF to kick to.

Again, Freo made the best of a bad situation. We traded out neale to Brisbane, got a 1st and 2nd for him. we used those neale picks to get hogan.

Essentially we traded Neale for Hogan.

I would love to get Cogniglio and Kelly. Got the money to get both considering Sandilands and Ballantyne and mundy on the way out along with some duds on decent money.


This is where things get interesting.

I fear tim kelly will become another des headland. Kelly gets a lot of midfield protection because you are more focused on shutting down selwood, dangerfield and Ablett.

He goes to freo, he wont get that same protection.

Then again, I said the same about brad hill and he is in our top 5 best performing players this season.

Fyfe Kelly would be amazing duo.

 

[TheShardMan]

I wish rtb would leave connor blakely in the midfield. Stop experimenting with him. He's a gun inside.

 

[Freomaniac]

View attachment 709771Possesion heat map.

So basically your team had marks inside your forward 50 then?

While freo had less marks in their forward 50. Even though Freo scored 2 goals and 19 behinds, half of those behinds were rushed, the others were sprayed shots on the run or from a clearance.

 

[Peel67skin]

The wenger comparison is Hilarious. Won a lot of trophies in his 1st 10 years from october of 1996 ending that decade with a champions league finals loss to barcelona on may of 2006.

from may 2006, he only won 3 fa cups.

Had he won an EPL title in 2007-8 and left in 2012 or 2013, Wengers legacy would not be badly tarnished.

you being a liverpool fan.... 1999-2009 was interesting. 1999-2004 liverpool had gerrard houlier and the undisputed best season was 2000-2001 was the treble of the League cup, fa cup, UEFA cup. they then won a league cup in 2003 then he was gone in 2004.

Rafa Benitez was there in 2004-9. Won the champs league in 2005, then an FA cup in 2006. got sacked in 2009 for finishing 7th. Not making top 4 to get champions league is sackable. Finishing top 4 to get champions league equals more money and a better chance to lure good players.
Mark Harvey wouldnt of got us to a grand final in 2013. Let me assure you on that one.

Wenger at least won something, I think Lyon/Harvey is more Brendan Rogers ain't going to win trophy only 2nd best.

 

[Damon_3388]

He won't be sacked going by Peter Bells interview on 6pr the other night, he is as safe as houses, Belly even trotted out the same lines as Ross Lyon does in the after match press conference. He seems to have some sort of spell over the Freo board, i can see an extension coming on for him.

If they miss the finals this year, that will be four years without finals, that is a pretty damning stat whichever way you want to spin it.

Nathan Buckley had four years of no finals, at a recently more successful club, and didn't have Ross' track record coming in.

If the club sees things going in the right direction and sees improvement, then it's valid to keep him on IMO.

 

[Magnum27]

Nathan Buckley had four years of no finals, at a recently more successful club, and didn't have Ross' track record coming in.

If the club sees things going in the right direction and sees improvement, then it's valid to keep him on IMO.

Bucks made some changes to how he coached and how much control he took, plus assistants were let go and new added. Nothing like that has happened at Freo from what i can see in Ross's time, anyway as i said re sign him, when my club has a stuff up of some sorts, there is always Freo to keep us off the back page and in the news whilst he is there.

 

[Damon_3388]

Bucks made some changes to how he coached and how much control he took, plus assistants were let go and new added. Nothing like that has happened at Freo from what i can see in Ross's time, anyway as i said re sign him, when my club has a stuff up of some sorts, there is always Freo to keep us off the back page and in the news whilst he is there.

The similarities come from wringing as much as possible from a prime group, ageing out, and starting again.

People gave no credit and afforded little patience to Buckley during the necessary regeneration of the list, and Lyon is getting similar treatment from a lot of non-Freo people too. Like Collingwood 2015-2017, the Dockers are in transition. It's not a prime list being "wasted".

The Dockers of 2019 feel very much like the Pies of 2017. Good signs combined with maddening inconsistency and little continuity due to injuries. I feel like if Freo are patient and stick firm with Ross, the list will continue to mature and rise up the ladder over the next couple of years.

 

[MadMundy]

One thing I will say is that I'm honestly so happy that Neale has gone and played really well at Brisbane, the way they're going and if they finish top 4, they're my team I'm cheering in finals, I want him to get the flag he couldn't get with us in 2013.

 

[West Coast 06]

Never been sure how to interpret those heat maps exactly, so I googled it and this came up:



So those maps actually support my point then?

Yes, we kicked 19 goals from your inside 50. That’s how I interpreted it.

While you had all your possessions on a wing.

Good game, was fun. See you next year.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

The similarities come from wringing as much as possible from a prime group, ageing out, and starting again.

People gave no credit and afforded little patience to Buckley durin the necessary regeneration of the list, and Lyon is getting similar treatment from a lot of non-Freo people too. Like Collingwood 2015-2017, the Dockers are in transition. It's not a prime list being "wasted".

The Dockers of 2019 feel very much like the Pies of 2017. Good signs combined with maddening inconsistency and little continuity due to injuries. I feel like if Freo are patient and stick firm with Ross, the list will continue to mature and rise up the ladder over the next couple of years.

It's quite different.

Collingwood spent four years as an inconsistent middle of the road team, with 11, 11, 10 and 9 wins before it suddenly clicked last year. And during that time they largely closed shop on trading in established players, focused on drafting and built the team from the ground up.

The last three years Fremantle haven't got anywhere near being a middle of the road side, with 4, 8 and 8 wins.

What makes those results remarkable is during that time they have recruited a host of afl ready players, Hogan, Lobb, Wilson, Colyer, Brad Hill, McCarthy, Hamling, Matera and Conca- for a team genuinely trying to rebuild they seem very hesitant to back their kids in.

 

[silverscope]

It's quite different.

Collingwood spent four years as an inconsistent middle of the road team, with 11, 11, 10 and 9 wins before it suddenly clicked last year. And during that time they largely closed shop on trading in established players, focused on drafting and built the team from the ground up.

The last three years Fremantle haven't got anywhere near being a middle of the road side, with 4, 8 and 8 wins.

Yeah we weren't middle of the road and probably maybe only just showing glimpses of that this year. That 4 win year was the biggest miscalculation by the coach and list manager on where they thought the club would/should be in our history. It's what forced us to rebuild the list and it couldn't start until after that season.

What makes those results remarkable is during that time they have recruited a host of afl ready players, Hogan, Lobb, Wilson, Colyer, Brad Hill, McCarthy, Hamling, Matera and Conca- for a team genuinely trying to rebuild they seem very hesitant to back their kids in.

While yes we've recruited some AFL ready players we've also lost a few good players, some better than others, Neale, Weller, Mayne, Crozier, De Boer in order to "bring some WA talent home" as seems to be a real change in thinking over the past few off seasons for us.

and to say we don't play "the kids" is just plain wrong. What do we consider kids anyway? Is it under 22s? Is it under 50 games? Is it years in at the club?

I mean you look at our best 22 and these players have played under 100 games of football. Lobb (87), Hogan - inj (83), Hamling (79), Taberner - inj (71), McCarthy (66), Tucker (64), Langdon (62), Blakely (54), Pearce - inj (53), Ryan (47), Hughes (45), Cerra (35), Brayshaw (33), Darcy (21), Logue (17)

Then you have the fringe best 22 who are playing a few games, some have held spots some are injury covers for our best. Cox (34) Banfield (24), Duman (18), Nyhuis (16), Switkowski (15), Crowden (10), Giro - inj(10).


I don't think Conca, Coyler, McCarthy are best 22 and our injury list is such that they are required to play. so yeah they might be AFL ready they are not in our long term plan and are great depth for our young list to have. The others you listed are best 22 and have proven themselves more than usefull, teams can't play all the kids and except to get any sort of result, just look at GC.

 

[Damon_3388]

It's quite different.

Collingwood spent four years as an inconsistent middle of the road team, with 11, 11, 10 and 9 wins before it suddenly clicked last year. And during that time they largely closed shop on trading in established players, focused on drafting and built the team from the ground up.

The last three years Fremantle haven't got anywhere near being a middle of the road side, with 4, 8 and 8 wins.

What makes those results remarkable is during that time they have recruited a host of afl ready players, Hogan, Lobb, Wilson, Colyer, Brad Hill, McCarthy, Hamling, Matera and Conca- for a team genuinely trying to rebuild they seem very hesitant to back their kids in.

How are those acquisitions any different to Collingwood bringing in Daniel Wells, Levi Greenwood, Lynden Dunn, Jeremy Howe, Chris Mayne, Taylor Adams, Adam Treloar, Will Hoskin-Elliott, etc. during their rebuilding phase?

You can't just completely strip everything back to kids and low-paid delistees, unless you want to be Carlton or GC.

 

[Freomaniac]

Wenger at least won something, I think Lyon/Harvey is more Brendan Rogers ain't going to win trophy only 2nd best.

No Doubt wenger has won something. Everyone has their opinions on him. I still say had he won an EPL title in the 2007-8 season, then stayed until 2012, Wengers legacy wouldnt be badly tarnished.

Keep in mind Arsenal finished 3rd with 83 points, Chelsea 2nd with 85 and Man utd top with 87. I remembered that Aresenal vs Chelsea game at the bridge late in that season. Bacary sagna, a right back got the lead in the 1st half. Then Didider Drogba got 2 goals in the 2nd half to help chelsea win 2-1 had they won that game, they would of been on 86 points. Then Arsenal needed to convert a draw into a win and they would of got 88 points.


Ross Lyon won a minor premiership with the saints in 2009 and 2015 with freo. You can debate about ross lyons rebuild. Even if he is gone at the end of this season, he has left us with a semit decent squad at the worst.

Oh and Brendan Rogers won tropies and cups at Celtic.

 

[Freomaniac]

One thing I will say is that I'm honestly so happy that Neale has gone and played really well at Brisbane, the way they're going and if they finish top 4, they're my team I'm cheering in finals, I want him to get the flag he couldn't get with us in 2013.

I wanted Chris Mayne to get a medal last year.

 

[Freomaniac]

It's quite different.

Collingwood spent four years as an inconsistent middle of the road team, with 11, 11, 10 and 9 wins before it suddenly clicked last year. And during that time they largely closed shop on trading in established players, focused on drafting and built the team from the ground up.

The last three years Fremantle haven't got anywhere near being a middle of the road side, with 4, 8 and 8 wins.

What makes those results remarkable is during that time they have recruited a host of afl ready players, Hogan, Lobb, Wilson, Colyer, Brad Hill, McCarthy, Hamling, Matera and Conca- for a team genuinely trying to rebuild they seem very hesitant to back their kids in.

Now lets break down this post.....

I am still bitter to this day about freos drop in 2016. As bad as freo were, freo were not a 4 win side in 2016. Had freo only for 13-14 wins in 2015 then 6-8 wins in 2016, then it was assumed that the team rsn their course and the natural and gradual drop would occur.

Now we talk about 2017: Freo could of won as little as 5-6 games in 2017 or as much as 10-12 wins. They had a lot of close games.

2018: yeah another 8 win season. As stated 9 of those games resulted in 50 point losses.

I agree Freo have recruited some good experienced players.....

However... I call bull**** on your thoughts on freo being hesitant to back the kids in.


Now lets talk about all the debut guys in the 2017 season.
Logue: Solid debut year in 2017. 13 games. Missed al of 2018 with injury. recently returned. Very solid player.

Cox: Harry taylor type swingman. Plays both CHF and CHB. has played every 2nd game on average since his debut.

Sean Darcy: KPPs take time to develop. Darcy is no exception. Sandi reitres this year. Darcy in 2020 will be in his 4th year and the main ruckman.

Luke Ryan: Played 11 games in 2017. now a key cog in freos back 6.

Josh Deluca; Fringe mid from subiaco. Glad he got a 2nd chance at Carlton.

Ryan Nyhuis: Debut in 2017 with 4 goals vs North. Fringe player. 16 games in 3 years.

Harley balic: Part of the Harley bennell trade(s) 4 games at freo, traded to demons then he retired.


Now for the guys that had debuts in the 2018 season

Andy Brayshaw: Pick 2. taken a bit early looks like a bloke that should of been takem at 10-15. Solid mid.

Adam cerra: Gun at pick 5. can play both inside and outside mid. Good foot skills too.

Mitch Crowden: Judged harshly on the freo board. Played 9 games last year. 1 game this year.

Bailey Banfield: Another mature aged pick. had a good 1st season. Played mainly at peel this season.

Taylin Duman: rookie in 2016, played for peel in 2017. Debut in 2018 and played 10 dockers games in 2018. Like Logue, another 190cm 90 kg defender.

Stefan Giro: wing/flanker. 10 games in 2018. 0 games this season due to season ending injury.

 

[woosha24]

Hawk unleashes on ‘princess’ Nat Fyfe

The fall-out from Fremantle’s woeful loss to Hawthorn on Saturday has continued, with skipper Nat Fyfe now being told to “suck it up, princess” after complaints about heavy tagging.

www.perthnow.com.au

Dockers coach Ross Lyon used his post-game press conference to deflect from the loss and threaten that the team would ‘take matters into their own hands’ if Fyfe continued to be targeted by the opposition.

You seriously couldn't make this sh*t up. What are you gonna do, Ross? Stamp your feet and hold your breath? Pull Fyfe from the team?

A-grade muppet. You couldn't have painted a bigger target on your best player's back with a paintbrush.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Hawk unleashes on ‘princess’ Nat Fyfe

The fall-out from Fremantle’s woeful loss to Hawthorn on Saturday has continued, with skipper Nat Fyfe now being told to “suck it up, princess” after complaints about heavy tagging.

www.perthnow.com.au

You seriously couldn't make this sh*t up. What are you gonna do, Ross? Stamp your feet and hold your breath? Pull Fyfe from the team?

A-grade muppet. You couldn't have painted a bigger target on your best player's back with a paintbrush.

Not only that. If indeed Fyfe's teammates do start getting overly physical, now the umpire's attention will be fully on them. Probably already had a meeting with Razor Ray about keeping a watchful eye. Basically asking to have free kicks awarded against you.

Lyon is probably the one coach I don't want coming to be considered for the Carlton head coach role.

 

[Vintage]

How are those acquisitions any different to Collingwood bringing in Daniel Wells, Levi Greenwood, Lynden Dunn, Jeremy Howe, Chris Mayne, Taylor Adams, Adam Treloar, Will Hoskin-Elliott, etc. during their rebuilding phase?

You can't just completely strip everything back to kids and low-paid delistees, unless you want to be Carlton or GC.

The difference is that he supports the eagles and really dislikes freo - so the fact you traded in a virtually identical number of players when also turning over your list like freo is actually completely different.

He’s also not interested that all but 2 of the players traded in were under 24.