Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[Brutalitops]

378 pages fuelled by insecure Hawks supporters

 

[Ambrosia]

Gone all quiet now? What a surprise

But let's take a look at the actual rules of the game, 6.2 B (ii), gee I wonder what it states...

Clubs shall select Players at the National Draft Selection Meeting in reverse order to the order in which Clubs finished on the Final Premiership Ladder in the previous Football Year.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL-Rules-June-2017.PDF

Thanks for playing champ, it's been a pleasure!

how could you possibly argue against this?

 

[matey]

379 pages fuelled by salty, envious, jealous opposition supporters.

Hawks supporters are just happy and optimistic with the quick transition of the playing list since our three peat. There is plenty of quality and a very solid core group to challenge again soon!

 

[Ambrosia]

379 pages fuelled by salty, envious, jealous opposition supporters.

Hawks supporters are just happy and optimistic with the quick transition of the playing list since our three peat. There is plenty of quality and a very solid core group to challenge again soon!

top contributors to the thread proves otherwise

 

[Jobe Watson]

379 pages fuelled by salty, envious, jealous opposition supporters.

Hawks supporters are just happy and optimistic with the quick transition of the playing list since our three peat. There is plenty of quality and a very solid core group to challenge again soon!

Jealous of what? A team that went from top 4 (at the end of the H&A) to bottom 10 with the oldest list in the league? A club with stagnating membership numbers?

I don't think Hawthorn have much to be envious of. Unfortunately I think Hawthorn won't be returning to the top 8 for quite a few years but's that just my humble opinion.

 

[Back One Out]

Jealous of what?

Jealous of our 16 finals victories since Clarkson became coach in 2005. (Essendon zero since then.)

Jealous that we made the most of our premiership window of opportunity with 4 premierships in 8 seasons from 2008-2015
The Bombers should be peaking with their list age profile, but they can't even make a dent in September. Bit of a worry.

 

[Back One Out]

378 pages fuelled by insecure Hawks supporters

At least we're no longer smug Hawthorn supporters

That's something, I s'pose.

 

[WWSD]

378 pages fuelled by insecure Hawks supporters

How many first round picks do Carlton have now whilst still being shite.

 

[old55]

Nah, that's not the argument. I never tried to argue we did better than Melbourne in 2018. I never said that.

It's more about the glossary of AFL terminology

When you say a team has finished on top of the ladder, everyone understands that to mean 1st place after Round 23. Not the premiership team.

Likewise, when you say a team finished in the top four (e.g. Hawks in 2018) it's understood they finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th place after Rd 23 and got the double chance in the finals series. If I wanted to a say a team reached the Prelim Final, I'd say exactly that. That's different to "top four".

It's interesting because until our butt.hurt little GoDees fan decided to make an issue of it, I'd never realised the AFL doesn't publish a final ladder to reflect the placings after the Grand Final. But it makes sense because nobody really cares. The ladder is only relevant to most people in terms of who qualifies for the Finals Series, who gets the double chance and what the seedings are for home finals.

There's the draft order as well, but the AFL doesn't see fit to worry about changing the actual ladder.

You have believed this but as Marc_Remillard has pointed out by quoting the AFL rules you have been wrong all along.

 

[WWSD]

Jealous of what? A team that went from top 4 (at the end of the H&A) to bottom 10 with the oldest list in the league? A club with stagnating membership numbers?

I don't think Hawthorn have much to be envious of. Unfortunately I think Hawthorn won't be returning to the top 8 for quite a few years but's that just my humble opinion.

Are we taking advice on all things “list management” from a supporter who’s team has been the most unsuccessful Victorian club since 2004? Some people never learn.

What are Essendon going to do about it’s ageing key position stocks? Hooker, Hurley and Bellchambers are all over 30 this year, whilst Daniher will be leaving as a free agent.

*first pump*

 

[Jobe Watson]

Jealous of our 16 finals victories since Clarkson became coach in 2005. (Essendon zero since then.)

Jealous that we made the most of our premiership window of opportunity with 4 premierships in 8 seasons from 2008-2015

Living 5+ years in the past there friend. Hawthorn right now are a middle-of-the-road team with not a lot to be envious of and the supporters are starting to drop off. Future doesn't look promising but of course that's just my opinion.

Bringing up Essendon off-topic just means that my humble opinion has offended you in some way.

What are Essendon going to do about it’s ageing key position stocks? Hooker, Hurley and Bellchambers are all over 30 this year, whilst Daniher will be leaving as a free agent.

*first pump*

Why don't you start a thread so we can talk about it. All I'll say is that we didn't need Danher to beat Hawthorn and make finals this year so I think we might be OK.

 

[WWSD]

You have believed this but as Marc_Remillard has pointed out by quoting the AFL rules you have been wrong all along.

If Melbourne were to miss the finals for whatever reason in 2020 does Goodwin get sacked?

 

[Slysh]

Living 5+ years in the past there friend. Hawthorn right now are a middle-of-the-road team with not a lot to be envious of and the supporters are starting to drop off. Future doesn't look promising but of course that's just my opinion.

Bringing up Essendon off-topic just means that my humble opinion has offended you in some way.

Literally set a new membership record AGAIN this year. You are just talking out your ass once again when it comes to Hawthorn.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Literally set a new membership record AGAIN this year. You are just talking out your ass once again when it comes to Hawthorn.

Your membership went up by less than 1k after finishing top 4 the year prior. Your supporters know the end has come. Even a s**t, unsuccessful minnow club like Essendon have more members than you now.

 

[Slysh]

Your membership went up by less than 1k after finishing top 4 the year prior. Your supporters know the end has come. Even a s**t, unsuccessful minnow club like Essendon have more members than you now.

Hang on you literally said our supporters are starting to drop off and yet it once again increased...

Imagine the mental gymnastics that must be going inside that head to come to that conclusion.

 

[Back One Out]

You have believed this but as Marc_Remillard has pointed out by quoting the AFL rules you have been wrong all along.

AFL change the rules every 5 seconds, so what does that prove?

As I said to your gimpish mate, please show me where this "final ladder" is. Post a link.
It must be SOMEWHERE, you would think... Show me.

I looked on the GoDees website for some mention about about your "top four" finish in 2018, but all I could find was this...

Ladder | Melbourne Football Club

See where the Demons are placed on the AFL and AFLW Ladders

www.melbournefc.com.au

 

[Jobe Watson]

Hang on you literally said our supporters are starting to drop off and yet it once again increased...

Imagine the mental gymnastics that must be going inside that head to come to that conclusion.

Yes, they are starting to drop off. Your membership increase has slowed down significantly... you went from +5000 from 2017 to 2018 to just +900 from 2018 to 2019. It'll be interesting to see if you can even match last year's number after such a lacklustre season - a poor start to 2020 and I don't think you'll get there. I don't see Hawthorn hitting their goal of 100k members by 2022 unless they find some September success.

 

[Back One Out]

Living 5+ years in the past there friend. Hawthorn right now are a middle-of-the-road team with not a lot to be envious of and the supporters are starting to drop off. Future doesn't look promising but of course that's just my opinion.

Yeah... I'm ready to slit my wrists just 3 years after we gave the 4peat a nudge.

This finals drought we've been going through sickens me. Years in the wilderness.

I've had a gutful.

The worst part about us being cellar dwellers in the bottom 10 is seeing Essendon go from strength to strength in the Top 8

 

[Marc_Remillard]

I've been sitting here, shaking my head and trying to work out why I'm arguing with a 12 year old about this s**t
I made a comment that Clarko hasn't done too badly in recent years - that he coached a c-grade team to a top four finish in 2018 (fact)

But I get it. You took umbrage because the mighty GoDees finished 4th in 2018, not Hawthorn.
That's why you initially pulled me up on that point. No point trying to deny it.

Melbourne's greatest achievement since 2000: making the Prelim Final in 2018 and getting flogged by West Coast

You win.

Maybe you can use your prizemoney to upgrade the AFL official ladder so it includes the finals

It states it in the AFL rules exactly how the draft order is based on the AFL ladder after the season has finished. Only an imbecile could try to refute it.

Are you really this thick or are you being obtuse?

I actually have no idea who your original post was in response to and I don't really care, also I have no idea why you try to keep bringing Melbourne into your pathetic arguments, it's off topic and irrelevant.

I didn't think it was possible but you have actually made an even bigger full of yourself, well done

 

[Marc_Remillard]

AFL change the rules every 5 seconds, so what does that prove?

As I said to your gimpish mate, please show me where this "final ladder" is. Post a link.
It must be SOMEWHERE, you would think... Show me.

I looked on the GoDees website for some mention about about your "top four" finish in 2018, but all I could find was this...

Ladder | Melbourne Football Club

See where the Demons are placed on the AFL and AFLW Ladders

www.melbournefc.com.au

Wow, yet again you make yourself look even worse.

How old are you?

 

[matey]

Jealous of what? A team that went from top 4 (at the end of the H&A) to bottom 10 with the oldest list in the league? A club with stagnating membership numbers?

I don't think Hawthorn have much to be envious of. Unfortunately I think Hawthorn won't be returning to the top 8 for quite a few years but's that just my humble opinion.

Averaging a premiership every 4.54 years since 1961, no other club comes close to this success in our life time which is why most oppo fans are sick and tired of the Brown & Gold. It’s human nature. Keep living your life in denial.

A soft as butter midfield, worst coach in the league, a number of players want out ...... Bombers will crash and are the ones heading bottom 4 while the Hawks will push top 4 because Clarko/Wright have drafted astutely since the three peat. It’s just not fair!!!!!!

That’s my humble opinion and glad to revisit in 9 months time.

 

[Gralin]

Jealous of what? A team that went from top 4 (at the end of the H&A) to bottom 10 with the oldest list in the league? A club with stagnating membership numbers?

I don't think Hawthorn have much to be envious of. Unfortunately I think Hawthorn won't be returning to the top 8 for quite a few years but's that just my humble opinion.

You've repeated your humble opinion with much sadness many times in this thread.

Have you convinced yourself yet?

 

[Back One Out]

It states it in the AFL rules exactly how the draft order is based on the AFL ladder after the season has finished. Only an imbecile could try to refute it.

I've asked you repeatedly to post a link to the "AFL ladder after the season has finished" and show where Melbourne finished Top 4 in 2018. You've been unable to do so because none exists. On every website which publishes the AFL ladder, the only one you'll find is the ladder after Round 23. That is what is meant by the "AFL ladder after the season has finished". i.e. The home and away season... which is when the AFL Final Series commences and the premiership is decided.

Are you really this thick or are you being obtuse?

Obviously, I understand the point you're trying to make. But I also think you're incredibly thick and obtuse for not realising that no such ladder exists - that it's actually a figment of your imagination. It literally is... unless you can prove otherwise and show me a link to an actual "final" ladder

I mean, how thick would you have to be to go around claiming the Bulldogs finished on top of the ladder in 2016?
Everyone knows the Dogs finished 7th on the ladder and went on to win the premiership.

I actually have no idea who your original post was in response to

I responded to a Collingwood troll who claimed Clarkson was resting on past glories and hadn't done much in recent years. I replied that he coached a Hawthorn team (rated by many as bottom 4 contenders) into the Top Four.

also I have no idea why you try to keep bringing Melbourne into your pathetic arguments, it's off topic and irrelevant.

Because you disagreed with my claim above. In your mind, the Demons were "top four" courtesy of beating Hawthorn in the Semi final and reaching the Prelim Final. That's the whole basis of this infantile argument.

I didn't think it was possible but you have actually made an even bigger full of yourself, well done

Marc_Remillard
"laughing at fools"

 

[Back One Out]

Wow, yet again you make yourself look even worse. How old are you?

I'm not 12 like you. I'm getting on a bit and so I have trouble with these interactive ladders

I tried playing around with the filters on that 2018 ladder on the Melbourne FC website, but i just couldn't get the Dees up into the Top 4

The only way I could do it was switch it over to the AFLW ladder

Maybe you'll have better luck than me???

Post a link once you've done it.

 

[Jobe Watson]

You've repeated your humble opinion with much sadness many times in this thread.

Have you convinced yourself yet?

I'm not trying to convince myself. I don't want to see Hawthorn do badly. It's just my honest opinion that they will.

Terrible forward line that was so dysfunctional at times in 2019 that you had to throw James Sicily in there. A midfield that is held up by one star player who is coming back from a year out of the game, though hopefully Worpel keeps developing to ease the load. A backline of ageing former stars like James Frawley and Pinchy McGee that will surely be tested once again in 2020... who is your emerging talent in the backline that we should get excited about?

I don't know. Just seems like a very average playing list, which is probably why Hawthorn spent time down in the bottom 4 in 2019. But of course that is just one man's opinion.