Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[Bazzar]

Yeah nah. Bushfire seasons where these things can happen are now more frequent thanks to climate change.

Rubbish.

Give me proof bushfires are more frequent.

Intencity ? These current East Gippsland fires cannot compare to the intencity of Black Saturday and Ash Wednesday.

 

[Fadge]

Rubbish.

Give me proof bushfires are more frequent.

Intencity ? These current East Gippsland fires cannot compare to the intencity of Black Saturday and Ash Wednesday.

Why weren't all these predictions about increased frequency and intensity of bushfires being brought up this time last year?

 

[Bazzar]

Well none of what is burning still has been deliberately lit. Basically all the big mega fires weren’t deliberately lit.

Not saying arson isn’t a problem but it’s just a distraction from those not wanting anything done on climate change.

What was the actual ignition point of the current East Gippsland fires?

 

[DangerousD]

You're an expert on forestry managment now?
Your CV us very impressive

The CFMEU aren't experts on Forestry management either.

 

[Chief]

You're an expert on forestry managment now?
Your CV us very impressive

No, the guy I’m paraphrasing is.

 

[Clems Knee]

Rubbish.

Give me proof bushfires are more frequent.

Intencity ? These current East Gippsland fires cannot compare to the intencity of Black Saturday and Ash Wednesday.

I too would like the figures on frequency and severity of bushfires.
The statistics are not easy to collate. The fires are across multiple states, so comparing the severity of a fire only within one state isn’t really fair.
The area burned isn’t necessarily a fair comparison either. The 1974 fires were apparently the result of a high fuel load after the very wet years previously. The intensity of the fires was much lower as a result - the area was more remote and fewer firefighters were involved, and there was less property damage ( I think)
I would also like to know the time between burns (wildfires or controlled burns) at sites.

And I’m pretty sure the education of people has improved since the last bushfires. We’ve had royal commissions to better reduce fire risk. So to lose so many people and so much property even with that improved approach suggests that a firestorm on this scale back a decade or two would have been even more devastating.

One of my friend’s daughter drove across Australia to watch a music festival. She only got to see John Farnham before the festival was abandoned because of the fire risk. In years past it could have been 8000 lives at risk. She still can’t get home by the way: the Eyre Highway has been cut off with another bushfire.

 

[DangerousD]

Rubbish.

Give me proof bushfires are more frequent.

Intencity ? These current East Gippsland fires cannot compare to the intencity of Black Saturday and Ash Wednesday.

What proof will you accept? A quick google search brings up many articles quoting experts, all stating bushfires are happening more frequent. Several times the last week, news reports have had experts on, showing graphs of growing bushfire activity.

How do you know the intensity can't compare? What did you measure each fire with?

I bloody hope we don't get near the death toll of Black Saturday and i hope the reason why, is that we learnt a lot of valuable lessons, but they are already predicting the loss of homes to be greater this fire season than the Black Saturday season and the area of burnt areas so far has already surpassed that of the Black Saturday fires.

 

[Bazzar]

No, the guy I’m paraphrasing is.

Who was that guy? Link.

 

[ShanDog]

Friendly reminder not to bring grievances about moderation decisions into threads. It's a quick way to have the thread derailed and your access to it temporarily (or permanently) removed due to that.

Use PMs to talk to mods if you aren't happy.

 

[Bazzar]

What proof will you accept? A quick google search brings up many articles quoting experts, all stating bushfires are happening more frequent. Several times the last week, news reports have had experts on, showing graphs of growing bushfire activity.

How do you know the intensity can't compare? What did you measure each fire with?

I bloody hope we don't get near the death toll of Black Saturday and i hope the reason why, is that we learnt a lot of valuable lessons, but they are already predicting the loss of homes to be greater this fire season than the Black Saturday season and the area of burnt areas so far has already surpassed that of the Black Saturday fires.

East Gippsland fires are/were 50 megawatts per meter at the peak, Black Saturday was 72.

 

[Clems Knee]

Friendly reminder not to bring grievances about moderation decisions into threads. It's a quick way to have the thread derailed and your access to it temporarily (or permanently) removed due to that.

Use PMs to talk to mods if you aren't happy.

Sorry about that. I made the mistake of reading that rule after having a tanty.

 

[Clems Knee]

East Gippsland fires were 50 megawatts per meter at the peak, Black Saturday was 72.

Do you have power records for the fires in NSW?

 

[ShanDog]

Sorry about that. I made the mistake of reading that rule after having a tanty.

No worries. It's an emotive topic.

 

[Bazzar]

Do you have power records for the fires in NSW?

From memory the Southern QLD /NSW at the peak in OCT/NOV wer high 60s . They were mega intense

 

[Deliverance]

OK. So let's play along with deniers. Weather trackers globally are fudging the data in collusion with each other. These are completely normal bushfires we are having and are caused by arsonists and the Greens.

What is causing various species of previously non-migratory animals to shift hundreds of KMs in to new environments?

 

[Bradesmaen]

No worries. It's an emotive topic.

If only we were all as emotionless as you

 

[DangerousD]

East Gippsland fires are/were 50 megawatts per meter at the peak, Black Saturday was 72.

Im sorry but your information is so far off its not funny. Fire intensity is measured in KW/M and the figures on the Black Saturday royal commission document states the intensity was unprecedented at 150,000KW/M. You can ease up on the mayo.

I can't find any data on the East Gippsland fires so i have no reason to doubt your opinion.

The part of your post that puzzled me the most, without going in to a discussion about anything else was, you seemingly not believing Bushfires are more frequent today than in the past.

A 5 minute Google search and i found a lot of articles and studies that all say the frequency is going up, the study i focused on had a 40% Australia wide from 2007-2013. I just didn't think people were debating this.

 

[ShanDog]

If only we were all as emotionless as you

If only I was afforded as much grace as I give

 

[Deliverance]

Im sorry but your information is so far off its not funny. Fire intensity is measured in KW/M and the figures on the Black Saturday royal commission document states the intensity was unprecedented at 150,000KW/M. You can ease up on the mayo.

I can't find any data on the East Gippsland fires so i have no reason to doubt your opinion.

The part of your post that puzzled me the most, without going in to a discussion about anything else was, you seemingly not believing Bushfires are more frequent today than in the past.

A 5 minute Google search and i found a lot of articles and studies that all say the frequency is going up, the study i focused on had a 40% Australia wide from 2007-2013. I just didn't think people were debating this.

Stick around a while. It gets worse.

 

[Bazzar]

Im sorry but your information is so far off its not funny. Fire intensity is measured in KW/M and the figures on the Black Saturday royal commission document states the intensity was unprecedented at 150,000KW/M. You can ease up on the mayo.

I can't find any data on the East Gippsland fires so i have no reason to doubt your opinion.

The part of your post that puzzled me the most, without going in to a discussion about anything else was, you seemingly not believing Bushfires are more frequent today than in the past.

A 5 minute Google search and i found a lot of articles and studies that all say the frequency is going up, the study i focused on had a 40% Australia wide from 2007-2013. I just didn't think people were debating this.

Lol, im wrong because you "googled it"

Thats the trouble here, google experts rule.
Maybe we should start to correct our own terminology to suit the academics, or pretend academics.
50 mega watts IS how its referred to.

 

[DangerousD]

Lol, im wrong because you "googled it"

Thats the trouble here, google experts rule.
Maybe we should start to correct our own terminology to suit the academics, or pretend academics.
50 mega watts IS how its referred to.

Are you joking? I quoted the figures from the Royal commission, you know, the government.
KW/M is the unit in which fires are measured.

if you are quoting figures of 50, 60, 70 MW, show me where you are getting them from. You don't get to decide a unit of measurement.

FYI its not mega watts, its MW, and thats not how fires are measured.

Very happy for you to show me otherwise.

 

[HairyO]

Aren’t we all pro-climate?

Some are also pro 4WDs.

 

[Bazzar]

Are you joking? I quoted the figures from the Royal commission, you know, the government.
KW/M is the unit in which fires are measured.

if you are quoting figures of 50, 60, 70 MW, show me where you are getting them from. You don't get to decide a unit of measurement.

FYI its not mega watts, its MW, and thats not how fires are measured.

Very happy for you to show me otherwise.

This from recently retired Australian bushfire scientist for the CSIRO, Prof David Packham talking about the Southern QLD and NSW bushfires, He said currently we have 10 times the ammount of fuelloads now since colonisation, and it cannot be argue the fact fuel loads are behind "every" bushfire.
In his words, using Prof George Byron formular, "the ammount of fuel determines the ammount of energy released, and the ammount of fuel determines the rate of which the fire spreads, so if you increase the ammount of fuel x10 "like it is now" you increase the intensity by 100 which is the current 70 mega watts per meter, and our current capacity to extinguish is only 3 mega watts per meter"

Forget sciency s**t, thats the problem now, forest management has been hijacked by academics using big words and technicalities


I do gotta laugh at the "instant" forest management experts here.
A couple of guardian articles, some twitter and google, and you're all experts.

 

[DangerousD]

This from recently retired Australian bushfire scientist for the CSIRO, Prof David Packham talking about the Southern QLD and NSW bushfires, He said currently we have 10 times the ammount of fuelloads now since colonisation, and it cannot be argue the fact fuel loads are behind "every" bushfire.
In his words, using Prof George Byron formular, "the ammount of fuel determines the ammount of energy released, and the ammount of fuel determines the rate of which the fire spreads, so if you increase the ammount of fuel x10 "like it is now" you increase the intensity by 100 which is the current 70 mega watts per meter, and our current capacity to extinguish is only 3 mega watts per meter"

you didn’t address anything with that.

Why are you using Mega Watts as a unit of measurement? The unit used to measure fire intensity is KW/M this isn’t an opinion.

I also asked where you got the 72 Mega Watt intensity for the Black Saturday fires from and all you posted was a long winded extract where it seems you added your own conclusion.

im telling what the report from the Royal commission says, which was 150,000KW/M, an actual number fro the actual report, in the actual measurement used to measure fire intensity.

 

[Bazzar]

you didn’t address anything with that.

Why are you using Mega Watts as a unit of measurement? The unit used to measure fire intensity is KW/M this isn’t an opinion.

I also asked where you got the 72 Mega Watt intensity for the Black Saturday fires from and all you posted was a long winded extract where it seems you added your own conclusion.

im telling what the report from the Royal commission says, which was 150,000KW/M, an actual number fro the actual report, in the actual measurement used to measure fire intensity.

Again, this is the problem. The real bushfire experts call it 50 or 70 "mega watts per meter" you dont like it, take it up with them.