Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 2

[Turnover]

Raj is going to lose his fifth job because Melbourne's most liveable city tag is under pressure?

LOLSY.

All those other cities that Melbourne is competing with for that tag are also battling the same pandemic.
So it all cancels out.

The real issue is that the pandemic is exposing Melbourne's sordid underbelly of preggers Zoe from Ballarat collaborating with far-right extremists to organise protests.

Hate to be your brain.

 

[Chief]

you agree this was partly driven by people relaxing and you don't think seeing the 10,000 marching through the streets together added to that?!

No - not when all of those people had masks on. I believe some people are using it to try to excuse their behaviour in the eyes of others, but if it wasn’t the protests it would be some other excuse.

They would be flouting the rules and common sense anyway. There will always be people who do this.

If the protests were such a problem, why aren’t we seeing issues in other cities?

 

[FIGJAM]

It seems Dan only told part of the story with regards to the $1500 hardship yesterday, it seems you only get it if you test positive, now whilst that seems fair, for those who are less fortunate than us and might not be able to even afford to take the two days off from work to help their family out whilst waiting for the results. A lot of people live pay check to paycheck and one or two days could make a huge difference in their life and their circumstances, and i'm not sure how you can stop people from going on with their life in that circumstance aside locking them up, which would cause all sorts of problems.

Spot on!

Are you eligible for the Victorian Government's $1,500 hardship payment?

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews says the state's coronavirus numbers are being driven up by people taking too long to get a test and continuing to work and shop while waiting for their test result.

www.abc.net.au

"The hardship payment is available for people who have tested positive and need to quarantine, or have been deemed a close contact of a positive case and need to quarantine.

To be eligible, you also need to have the following circumstances:

• The order to self-quarantine means you can't work
• You don't receive any income or leave payments while off work

You also need to have ongoing work, be living in Victoria, and not receiving JobKeeper or "any other forms of Australian Government income support".

But you can be casual, permanent or part-time, or be self-employed."

As I suggested earlier, the business employing casuals should be forced to pay for all of the agreed missed shifts in full so long as there is a live test until the results are returned and then they should be able to claim them back from the government.

Might be exploitable, but we're currently getting reamed so what's there to lose?

 

[Deliverance]

The most recent statistics I found placed the median age of Australians at 37 years and our life expectancy at 84 years. I'll assume the median age is the same as our mean age for the sake of argument.

Even if COVID-19 deaths were equally spread across all age demographics, a 0.05% death rate applied to our 25 million population would result in an average years of potential life lost per capita of (84-37) x 0.05/100 = 0.0235 years or 8.6 days.

Considering the economic, social, mental health, employment, and educational costs to our population as a result of the approach we've used, I don't think we're getting a decent return on investment.

I'm not suggesting we do nothing to mitigate the spread of covid-19. I think we could easily do better than Sweden given the advantage of our lower population density without causing so much harm to other areas of societal health.

The most recent stats I could find from the abs attribute 3102 Australian deaths to influenza and pneumonia in 2018. Should we close all schools, defer nonessential surgery, close workplaces, ban social interaction, and harm our economy to prevent most of those deaths every year?

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/47E19CA15036B04BCA2577570014668B?Opendocument

The reality is, world leaders knew about this on January 1. Our strategy has been running for 8 months at the end of this Vic lockdown. We'll be nearly a year in and in pretty much exactly the same spot we started at, while the rest of the world opens up. We'd have to try something vastly different you'd think.

 

[Tiger08]

No - not when all of those people had masks on. I believe some people are using it to try to excuse their behaviour in the eyes of others, but if it wasn’t the protests it would be some other excuse.

They would be flouting the rules and common sense anyway. There will always be people who do this.

If the protests were such a problem, why aren’t we seeing issues in other cities?

It's not a problem in other states because their state governments didn't stuff up quarantine as well. Thanks again Dan!

But is your argument is that it was ok because they were were wearing masks? Sorry but the masks aren't 100% effective otherwise we could just go on with our lives with masks and start playing footy again in Melbourne.

And more importantly.. just remember it was the protesters who were flouting the rules and common sense!!

Of course some people who don't like these rules now will point to the 10,000 people that gathered in the city without being fined. It's perfectly reasonable to ask why it was ok for them but not for me?

That's precisely why the protests probably had an impact and shouldn't have happened.




.

 

[Deliverance]

No wonder Labor federally is nervous about the growing Victoria Coronavirus crisis, because with a federal election on next year, if Daniel Andrews doesn’t get it under control by the end of the year, Labor could lose a very big swag of Victorian seats to the Coalition, which could well cost them the next election.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

What's more likely IMO is that Josh will use some of the 150 billion currently in the taxpayer's savings account to pork barrell.

 

[Demontim275]

It's not a problem in other states because their state governments didn't stuff up quarantine as well. Thanks again Dan!

But is your argument is that it was ok because they were were wearing masks? Sorry but the masks aren't 100% effective otherwise we could just go on with our lives with masks and start playing footy again in Melbourne.

And more importantly.. just remember it was the protesters who were flouting the rules and common sense!!

Of course some people who don't like these rules now will point to the 10,000 people that gathered in the city without being fined. It's perfectly reasonable to ask why it was ok for them but not for me?

That's precisely why the protests probably had an impact and shouldn't have happened.




.

It’s perfectly reasonable to say “but but but they did it first!”

How about all the dickheads who broke the rules take responsibility?

 

[Magnum27]

Spot on!

Are you eligible for the Victorian Government's $1,500 hardship payment?

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews says the state's coronavirus numbers are being driven up by people taking too long to get a test and continuing to work and shop while waiting for their test result.

www.abc.net.au

"The hardship payment is available for people who have tested positive and need to quarantine, or have been deemed a close contact of a positive case and need to quarantine.

To be eligible, you also need to have the following circumstances:

• The order to self-quarantine means you can't work
• You don't receive any income or leave payments while off work

You also need to have ongoing work, be living in Victoria, and not receiving JobKeeper or "any other forms of Australian Government income support".

But you can be casual, permanent or part-time, or be self-employed."

As I suggested earlier, the business employing casuals should be forced to pay for all of the agreed missed shifts in full so long as there is a live test until the results are returned and then they should be able to claim them back from the government.

Might be exploitable, but we're currently getting reamed so what's there to lose?

Something has to be worked out for those less fortunate to help them stay at home, i have a friend who works in the same office as CHO and the concern all along was the people who we would call lifes battlers and people who's first language is not Australian following the rules.

 

[Tiger08]

It’s perfectly reasonable to say “but but but they did it first!”

How about all the dickheads who broke the rules take responsibility?

Yes.. obviously those dickheads include all the protesters.

 

[Demontim275]

Yes.. obviously those dickheads include all the protesters.

Yes it does.

Someone else breaking a rule, doesn’t diminish your responsibility, it’s not a cause of others breaking the rule. Attribute the blame to the individual for breaking it, don’t find excuses for them.

 

[Turnover]

No - not when all of those people had masks on. I believe some people are using it to try to excuse their behaviour in the eyes of others, but if it wasn’t the protests it would be some other excuse.

They would be flouting the rules and common sense anyway. There will always be people who do this.

If the protests were such a problem, why aren’t we seeing issues in other cities?

Will you ever get the point.

 

[FIGJAM]

ABC reporting "around 400".

Pay casual workers to get tested and isolate (and prioritise their tests).

 

[Caesar]

Pay casual workers to get tested and isolate (and prioritise their tests).

Prioritising their tests is probably the most important bit.

I imagine most casuals would rather miss one shift unpaid and be back on the floor tomorrow than miss three shifts, get paid, but risk losing hours on the next roster.

 

[bonddm]

I worked casual jobs between 2013-2016 and had 1 day off sick in that period. After I took that 1 sick day off, the following day I was threatened by my employment agency with not receiving any further work from them as a result!

 

[yodellinhank]

No - not when all of those people had masks on.

...

If the protests were such a problem, why aren’t we seeing issues in other cities?

Do ya reckon they could open things up with compulsory masks? You can go outside, attend a mass gathering (with sufficient distancing) etc

 

[Carn The Berries]

ABC reporting "around 400".

Pay casual workers to get tested and isolate (and prioritise their tests).

I agree with the premise but the reality is how on earth do you roll it out? It's hard enough to get people set up properly for Job Keeper and Job Seeker via MyGov/Centrelink. The issue is people who are impacted are living paycheck to paycheck. Waiting 7/14/28 days for this payment isn't going to solve the core problem.

The idea about employers paying staff for shifts they don't work and then being reimbursed by the Government has merit, but the restrictions would want to be water tight to stop it being rorted.

Sadly, like with most COVID-19 related things, its a complex issue that doesn't have a silver bullet answer.

 

[romeohwho]

Everyone where I live wearing their masks on the street today . Comon.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Go Dan- very good presser today. Keep it up.

Out of interest, if (and yes it is a decent if) Dan does resign with his underlings, are you going to be so chipper when you lose your job?

 

[QuietB]

The most recent statistics I found placed the median age of Australians at 37 years and our life expectancy at 84 years. I'll assume the median age is the same as our mean age for the sake of argument.

Even if COVID-19 deaths were equally spread across all age demographics, a 0.05% death rate applied to our 25 million population would result in an average years of potential life lost per capita of (84-37) x 0.05/100 = 0.0235 years or 8.6 days.

Considering the economic, social, mental health, employment, and educational costs to our population as a result of the approach we've used, I don't think we're getting a decent return on investment.

I'm not suggesting we do nothing to mitigate the spread of covid-19. I think we could easily do better than Sweden given the advantage of our lower population density without causing so much harm to other areas of societal health.

The most recent stats I could find from the abs attribute 3102 Australian deaths to influenza and pneumonia in 2018. Should we close all schools, defer nonessential surgery, close workplaces, ban social interaction, and harm our economy to prevent most of those deaths every year?

https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/47E19CA15036B04BCA2577570014668B?Opendocument

The main problem with this is almost all of our local region has already achieved elimination and we will be excluded from those places until either we achieve elimination or they cop the virus.

Queensland is certainly at risk but NSW seems to be under control.

Tas, SA, WA, NT and NZ are not getting large outbreaks again.

Unless we want to be isolated for a very very long time, we need to find a way to join those places. We need to get back to elimination.

We have done it once. We need to do it again.

 

[QuietB]

The reality is, world leaders knew about this on January 1. Our strategy has been running for 8 months at the end of this Vic lockdown. We'll be nearly a year in and in pretty much exactly the same spot we started at, while the rest of the world opens up. We'd have to try something vastly different you'd think.

The rest of the world has not opened up. That is false

 

[Malifice]

Even if COVID-19 deaths were equally spread across all age demographics, a 0.05% death rate applied to our 25 million population would result in an average years of potential life lost per capita of (84-37) x 0.05/100 = 0.0235 years or 8.6 days.

Considering the economic, social, mental health, employment, and educational costs to our population as a result of the approach we've used, I don't think we're getting a decent return on investment.

So... economics trumps the lives of literally thousands of people does it?

 

[Kwality]

almost all of our local region has already achieved elimination

What elimination? Who? Where is this local region?

 

[Chief]

And there's the insult. LOL go argue with someone else google know it all.

Dude you put out the bait, put on the tough guy act, then whinge when people point out that you sound like a tool.

 

[Magnum27]

Far from a fan of how he has handled this, but good to see them making some changes to payments for people waiting for test results who rely on their job to support their family.

 

[Kwality]

Far from a fan of how he has handled this, but good to see them making some changes to payments for people waiting for test results who rely on their job to support their family.

As Dan pointed out the ground is moving as we go & being consistent is not always applicable.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Andrews under pressure as cases rise

ANALYSIS

www.news.com.au

In other states that ran mandatory 14-day quarantine in hotels, a mixture of police and Australian Defence Force personnel were deployed to ensure safety and compliance.

But Victoria decided to chart a different course, contracting private security firms with no tender process, no independent oversight and, as time has starkly illustrated, shocking consequences.

On the ABC program 7.30 last night, more evidence emerged of just how ill-prepared, inadequate and poorly trained those guards were, with one whistleblower saying one contractor recruited security staff via the WhatsApp messaging system.

“I just got told that you need to be here at this certain time and you‘re going to dress in a certain way and this is your pay rate and that’s it,” Shayla Shakshi told 7.30.

“We didn‘t get any training when I got there. We had to put a mask on and gloves on and that was it. It was really like, ‘OK, how do I wear a mask? How do I sanitise?’”

It has also emerged that some hotel guards allowed those in quarantine to socialise with others and leave for fast food runs. There were poor hygiene protocols in place and some security staff allegedly had sex with isolating travellers.

Epidemiologists have theorised that the virus likely spread from those hotels, thanks to repeated breaches of guidelines by security guards, and into the community.

Since then, thousands of people have been infected and 18 people have died in 16 days. There are clusters in schools, healthcare facilities and aged care homes.

Precise modelling on the source of the second wave of outbreaks has been completed, but Mr Andrews won’t release it publicly – because, he says, there’s a judicial inquiry into the quarantine bungle.

Outlining the epidemiology that traces the outbreak back to its original source, conducted by the Doherty Institute, could pre-empt the inquiry’s work, Mr Andrews has said.

It’s a convenient cover for a potentially devastating failure by ministers and senior public servants, on his watch, with the findings of that probe not due until September.

People aren’t stupid. They can see the Premier’s “inquiry” tactic for what it is – an ability for him to dodge daily questioning by reporters at press conferences by insisting he’s “letting the inquiry run its course”.

Perhaps Mr Andrews hopes by September that the second wave will be crushed, Melbourne will reopen and his government will be seen as successful in its handling of the health, economic and social crises.

Last week, an Essential poll revealed a significant slump in support for the Andrews Government, with approval for its coronavirus response falling to 23 per cent from 52 per cent in late June.

A Newspoll published yesterday in The Australian showed things have only worsened, with a dire net satisfaction rating for Mr Andrews’ leadership of 20, compared to 58 at the end of April.

Following the successful flattening of the curve a few months back, Mr Andrews ranked as one of the most popular leaders in the country, with his approval rating higher than Mr Morrison’s on occasion.

The second wave of infection and the stage 3 lockdown of Greater Melbourne saw those fortunes reverse sharply. It now appears that the level of community trust in the Premier is sliding while anger continues to boil over.

Gaining public trust in a crisis is essential. Keeping it is crucial, particularly in one as unpredictable as this, as measures are relaxed and reintroduced and the need to adhere to public health guidelines can be a matter of life and death.