Are too many players eligible for Academies ??

[Hollow Knight]

It was Brisbane's academy.

Father/son eligible for Brisbane. Essendon academy.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

You’ve already lost the argument man. Keep shouting into the abyss if you must.

Only in your mind, you're ignoring reality. Typical comment from someone who only has one argument and then absolutely nothing when it gets torn to shreds. Hanging your hat on what happened back in 1996 is an absolute joke

The AFL had to do something because they knew they couldn't defend giving Brisbane and Sydney an academy. The AFL couldn't take the academies away because of the crying they knew they would get from Brisbane and Sydney. So they did the only thing available to them, they gave every other club a watered down version.

This is a fact, all your references to 1996 can't change it. The reason why we have this stupid system now is because of Brisbane and Sydney getting ridiculous advantages over the rest of the competition, you can cry all you want but thanks to your club we're in this mess now.

 

[Roylion]

But the northern clubs never exploited their academies?

"Exploited". Have they?

Brisbane's academy selections

2012/13 off-season
- Jordan Bourke rookie pre-selection - 6 games - delisted 2015.

2013/14 off-season
- Jonathan Freeman Pick 62 - 14 games - delisted 2017
- Archie Smith (rookie academy pre-selection) - 13 games (14th game vs. Melbourne tonight)

2014-2015 offseason
- Liam Dawson Pick 44 - 18 games - delisted 2018
- Harris Andrews Pick 61 - 104 games (105th game vs. Melbourne tonight)
- Matthew Hammelmann (rookie academy pre-selection) - 12 games - delisted 2017

2015/16 off-season
- Eric Hipwood Pick 14 - 82 games (83rd game tonight vs Melbourne)
- Ben Keays Pick 24 - 30 games delisted 2019 (now with Adelaide - 6 games)

2016/17 off-season
- Jacob Allison Pick 55 - 10 games (drafted again in the rookie draft in 2018-2019)

2017/18 off-season
- Connor Ballenden Pick 43 - 0 games
- Jack Payne Pick 54 - 0 games

2018/19 off-season
- Connor McFadyen Pick 43 - 0 games

So with 12 selections in eight years, (and the pick taken by the Lions determined by other clubs) only two have had any success with the Brisbane Lions. And in 2020 there's still only seven Quenslanders on the senior list of 38 (less than 20%).

That's exploitation is it?

 

[Yojimbo]

It was Brisbane's academy.

Brisbane Father/Son who played for the Oakleigh Chargers was recovering from an ACL so a bit out of mind.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Im a swans fan and i agree. The academy concept needs a re think.

We need ways for bloles from non afl areas like Heeney to stay in the game . Thats crucial. But maybe anyone could have had the option to draft him?

I have no issues with GWS and GCS getting an academy each, at least until they can get father/son selections. (Actually my preference is to abolish all academies, nga's and f/s selections.) But players like Mills who came from a footballing family and was quoted before being drafted that he lived and breathed AFL and was always going to play is the reason we're in the s**t now

 

[Hollow Knight]

Only in your mind, you're ignoring reality. Typical comment from someone who only has one argument and then absolutely nothing when it gets torn to shreds. Hanging your hat on what happened back in 1996 is an absolute joke

The AFL had to do something because they knew they couldn't defend giving Brisbane and Sydney an academy. The AFL couldn't take the academies away because of the crying they knew they would get from Brisbane and Sydney. So they did the only thing available to them, they gave every other club a watered down version.

This is a fact, all your references to 1996 can't change it. The reason why we have this stupid system now is because of Brisbane and Sydney getting ridiculous advantages over the rest of the competition, you can cry all you want but thanks to your club we're in this mess now.

Lol, who is crying here?

Address all future correspondence here...

 

[Marc_Remillard]

"Exploited". Have they?

Brisbane's academy selections

2012/13 off-season
Jordan Bourke rookie pre-selection - 6 games - delisted 2015.

2013/14 off-season
Jonathan Freeman Pick 62 - 14 games delisted 2017
Archie Smith (rookie academy pre-selection) - 13 games (14th game vs. Melbourne tonight)

2014-2015 offseason
Liam Dawson Pick 44 - 18 games delisted 2018
Harris Andrews Pick 61 - 104 games (105th game vs. Melbourne tonight)
Matthew Hammelmann (rookie academy pre-selection - 12 games. Delisted 2017

2015/16 off-season
Eric Hipwood Pick 14 - 82 games (83rd game tonight vs Melbourne)
Ben Keays Pick 24 - 30 games delisted 2019 (now with Adelaide - 6 games)

2016/17 off-season
Jacob Allison Pick 55 - 10 games (drafted again in the rookie draft in 2018-2019)

2017/18 off-season
Connor Ballenden Pick 43 - 0 games
Jack Payne Pick 54 - 0 games

2018/19 off-season
Connor McFadyen Pick 43 - 0 games

So with 12 selections in eight years, only two have had any success with the Brisbane Lions. And in 2020 there's still only seven Quenslanders on the senior list of 38 (less than 20%).

That's exploitation is it?

At least you've seen the sense to drop your ridiculous previous argument. I'm referring to using academies to pick up players like Mills, who came from AFL footballing families

 

[Hollow Knight]

"Exploited". Have they?

Brisbane's academy selections

2012/13 off-season
Jordan Bourke rookie pre-selection - 6 games - delisted 2015.

2013/14 off-season
Jonathan Freeman Pick 62 - 14 games delisted 2017
Archie Smith (rookie academy pre-selection) - 13 games (14th game vs. Melbourne tonight)

2014-2015 offseason
Liam Dawson Pick 44 - 18 games delisted 2018
Harris Andrews Pick 61 - 104 games (105th game vs. Melbourne tonight)
Matthew Hammelmann (rookie academy pre-selection - 12 games. Delisted 2017

2015/16 off-season
Eric Hipwood Pick 14 - 82 games (83rd game tonight vs Melbourne)
Ben Keays Pick 24 - 30 games delisted 2019 (now with Adelaide - 6 games)

2016/17 off-season
Jacob Allison Pick 55 - 10 games (drafted again in the rookie draft in 2018-2019)

2017/18 off-season
Connor Ballenden Pick 43 - 0 games
Jack Payne Pick 54 - 0 games

2018/19 off-season
Connor McFadyen Pick 43 - 0 games

So with 12 selections in eight years, only two have had any success with the Brisbane Lions. And in 2020 there's still only seven Quenslanders on the senior list of 38 (less than 20%).

That's exploitation is it?

Developed quite a bit of QLD talent for other clubs too. Added to the talent pool.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Lol, who is crying here?

Address all future correspondence here...

Do you know what point you're even trying to argue?

I'm talking about what actually tok place and the reason why we have this s**t system.

What a bizarre reply, at least you have your username right, no substance at all

 

[HairyO]

There's a young lad named James Borlace whose father played 246 games and 4 premierships for Port Adelaide in the SANFL. He's not eligible for Port Adelaide as a father-son. He is eligible for the Next Generation Academy, which is supposed to be a system to bring in players with no background in football who otherwise wouldn't find their way into Australian Rules football, because mum and Dad happened to move to Egypt for work for a couple of years and he was born during that time.

So despite having a father who played 246 games and 4 premierships at state league level, he qualifies for a system which was only supposed to exist to encourage people with no football background to take up the game. And just to top it off, it's the Crows' NGA he's eligible for.

I assumed this was commonly known, but I guess not.

Port Adelaide (SANFL) =/ Port Adelaide (AFL)

I assume the kid is available to play for the SANFL Port Adelaide if they have a Father / Son rule?

So he could do that.

 

[Colonial]

But why does it matter.
U get a draft pick. U can use it anyway u want.

Because home grown stars matter. Development matters.
Having a player from your area helps keep them.
Having even more players from all over the country builds the game.

 

[Cadillac]

Academies are sh*t. We get an advantage but i dont support them.

Keep player pathways and development separate from the actual draft.

Not picking on the Doggies but how the hell do they have an academy? Its a joke.
When did that even happen?

Every club has an academy mate.
Every single one of them.

 

[Roylion]

At least you've seen the sense to drop your ridiculous previous argument.

And what so-called 'ridiculous previous argument' was that? I'm responding to your comment about academies for northern clubs.

I'm referring to using academies to pick up players like Mills, who came from AFL footballing families

You said 'northern clubs'. Brisbane is a 'northern club'. If by "northern clubs" you meant "Sydney" then say "Sydney". How have Brisbane "exploited" the academy system? I'd say it's worked exactly how it is supposed to work.

Mills went at Pick 3 didn't he? Roughly what he was worth. Born and grew up in Sydney didnt he? Played rugby union in his youth?

 

[Marc_Remillard]

And what so-called 'ridiculous previous argument' was that? I'm responding to your comment about academies for northern clubs.



You said 'northern clubs'. Brisbane is a 'northern club'. If by "northern clubs" you meant "Sydney" then say "Sydney". How have Brisbane "exploited" the academy system? I'd say it's worked exactly how it is supposed to work.

Mills went at Pick 3 didn't he? Roughly what he was worth. Born and grew up in Sydney didnt he? Played rugby union in his youth?

But Sydney didn't have pick 3, which was the whole reason how they were able to exploit the system. They played in finals and were able to pick up a top 3 pick for nothing under rules that were meant for kids who wouldn't normally play football without an academy. As his mum said before he was quoted "he always had a football in his hands, even at a young age, he was always going to play AFL"

For Brisbane the one who comes to mind without any research is Hipwood. Massive footballing family from Melbourne, was always going to play AFL

Ben Keays, grandfather played for Fitzroy, uncle played for Collignwood. Another AFL family, even though the academies are meant for kids who would never have played the sport.

The fact that Keays is no longer on the list is irrelevant, the AFL had to do something. GWS were the worst offenders but in a very short timeframe that is a massive issue. You can't run a professional competition like that, the AFL were forced to do something.

And now we have NGA's, thanks to Brisbane and Sydney, congratulations

 

[Roylion]

But Sydney didn't have pick 3, which was the whole reason how they were able to exploit the system. They played in finals and were able to pick up a top 3 pick for nothing

But it wasn't for 'nothing'. Under the bidding system the Swans used their No. 33, 36, 37 and 44 picks to move up the order to Pick #3. Like trading four picks for a first round pick.

Same with Hipwood. Lions gave up Picks 36 and 37 for Pick 14.

under rules that were meant for kids who wouldn't normally play football without an academy.

The northern academies were (and are) meant to increase the number of home state players on the lists of clubs in developing markets and increase the pathways for AFL players in those northern non-footballing states. They're not meant to necessarily attract kids who normally wouldn't play football (but of they do even better). They're meant to create a pathway to the AFL for footballers in northern states to play with their home state AFL club and in the end reduce those northern clubs' reliance on drafting the majority of their list from the southern footballing states and bring their list structure to a level more commensurate with those clubs in football states.

For Brisbane the one who comes to mind without any research is Hipwood. Massive footballing family from Melbourne, was always going to play AFL

Moved to Queensland at the age of three and played all his junior football in Queensland. Family had heavy involvement in Queensland football

even though the academies are meant for kids who would never have played the sport.

That's not the case with the northern academies. Keays moved to Brisbane at five years of age and played all his junior football in Queensland.

And now we have NGA's, thanks to Brisbane and Sydney, congratulations

Little if anything to with Brisbane and Sydney. More the jumping up and down of the clubs in footballing states who perceived an inequality when there was none. The northern Academies work exactly how they were supposed to.

 

[blitzer]

Academies would be fine if they would just drop first round discount. The rest is fine. If a player goes in first round - no discount. You still get the priority access. Should be this way for father son too.

 

[100action]

Academies should be scrapped.

Father Sons should be limited to players inducted in HOF and the discount removed.

 

[Scotland]

There's a young lad named James Borlace whose father played 246 games and 4 premierships for Port Adelaide in the SANFL. He's not eligible for Port Adelaide as a father-son. He is eligible for the Next Generation Academy, which is supposed to be a system to bring in players with no background in football who otherwise wouldn't find their way into Australian Rules football, because mum and Dad happened to move to Egypt for work for a couple of years and he was born during that time.

So despite having a father who played 246 games and 4 premierships at state league level, he qualifies for a system which was only supposed to exist to encourage people with no football background to take up the game. And just to top it off, it's the Crows' NGA he's eligible for.

If academies were around 20 years ago I think Daniel Kerr would have been eligible. ******* LOL.

 

[bluespooner]

As soon as we have a national under 18s comp for all states to develop equally sounds good.

But as it’s unaffordable supposedly then nope.

Of course you would say that. The AFL has gifted GWS an academy in prime AFL heartland, other clubs get academies in whoop whoop providing players that are best rookie list category.

Basically what you have is GWS be given first round players as academy players every season, regardless of ladder position.

 

[Sherrinator]

Marc as usual carrying on about nothing.

 

[Colonial]

Of course you would say that. The AFL has gifted GWS an academy in prime AFL heartland, other clubs get academies in whoop whoop providing players that are best rookie list category.

Basically what you have is GWS be given first round players as academy players every season, regardless of ladder position.

You guys barely travel and have the GF n your own city. Tell you what, share the GF around nationally , 3rd party and sponsor payments are included in the actual cap, end f/s and everyone gets the same coverage with Friday nights etc and that’s before we get into the youth pathways available to traditional states and then you can whinge about unfair academies.

But I know you won’t.

 

[bluespooner]

You guys barely travel and have the GF n your own city. Tell you what, share the GF around nationally , 3rd party and sponsor payments are included in the actual cap, end f/s and everyone gets the same coverage with Friday nights etc and that’s before we get into the youth pathways available to traditional states and then you can whinge about unfair academies.

But I know you won’t.

Firstly, why do you assume I support carlton?

Secondly, none of what you have raised explains why GSW was gifted an academy in AFL heartland. How would these clubs react if Geelong was gifted the Geelong Falcons as an U18s club that they had first dibs on - so no matter where they were finished on the ladder they were gifted the best player at the Falcons. And then extend it further to have the South and Western Australian clubs having first dibs on talent from their States.

Thirdly, your franchise doesn't play under a salary cap, 14 clubs pay under a salary cap and the AFL allows their franchises to pay players outside the cap, as ambassadorial payments - and lets not kid ourselves GWS doesn't pay players they have the AFL subsidise their payments by reducing the distributions to the AFL heartland clubs that have made the competition.

And youth pathways when did that become a disadvantage. GWS gets an academy in AFL heartland, how they have done as poorly as they have is staggering. For example, why even bother to turn up for last year's GF and perform like that, and basically destroy the AFL's show day. This is a club given advantages other clubs could only dream about, and your still a laughing stock.

A time is coming when the powerful clubs are going to say enough is enough, and will break away from the socialist AFL that is stacking the deck in favour of these franchises. I can't wait; I'm sick and tired of my club having to subsidise this farce of a competition and then having smarmy tossers of these AFL franchises tell me how justified they are to receive every advantage under the sun and yet still cannot achieve the ultimate success - what else do you need, points start; different rule interpretations, but then you already get that anyway.

 

[Colonial]

Firstly, why do you assume I support carlton?

Secondly, none of what you have raised explains why GSW was gifted an academy in AFL heartland. How would these clubs react if Geelong was gifted the Geelong Falcons as an U18s club that they had first dibs on - so no matter where they were finished on the ladder they were gifted the best player at the Falcons. And then extend it further to have the South and Western Australian clubs having first dibs on talent from their States.

Thirdly, your franchise doesn't play under a salary cap, 14 clubs pay under a salary cap and the AFL allows their franchises to pay players outside the cap, as ambassadorial payments - and lets not kid ourselves GWS doesn't pay players they have the AFL subsidise their payments by reducing the distributions to the AFL heartland clubs that have made the competition.

And youth pathways when did that become a disadvantage. GWS gets an academy in AFL heartland, how they have done as poorly as they have is staggering. For example, why even bother to turn up for last year's GF and perform like that, and basically destroy the AFL's show day. This is a club given advantages other clubs could only dream about, and your still a laughing stock.

A time is coming when the powerful clubs are going to say enough is enough, and will break away from the socialist AFL that is stacking the deck in favour of these franchises. I can't wait; I'm sick and tired of my club having to subsidise this farce of a competition and then having smarmy tossers of these AFL franchises tell me how justified they are to receive every advantage under the sun and yet still cannot achieve the ultimate success - what else do you need, points start; different rule interpretations, but then you already get that anyway.

That post was almost as bad as some of those QAnon nut jobs.

Proves what my post right.

 

[Mofra]

There is also the argument that it's providing a pathway for talented juniors who would be tempted to play other sports as well e.g. Alex Keath and the lure of cricket was listed as a 17 year old by the Suns, Jamarra Ugle-Hagen and basketball.

 

[LordLucifer]

Academies should be scrapped.

Father Sons should be limited to players inducted in HOF and the discount removed.

(a) totally agree

(b) I need to give that a little more thought