Review Please remind me why we traded Dougal Howard?

[EvansHodges77]

That's what I thought and liked your post but its not the case. Looking at the full trades at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_AFL_draft and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_AFL_draft

We started with picks
10 ( pick 9 then first GC concession pick pre Rd 1 makes it pick 10,) and
29 (then 18 more + 2nd additional GC priority pick at start of Rd 2),
(pick 50 ie 29+18+3 free agency compo picks = 50 traded away with Wingard) and
66 as part of 2018 Polec and Pittard trade with NM and
67 as part of 2018 Hombsch trade with GC but GC received from Adelaide and
68 our normal 4th round pick and
71 as part of 2018 Wingard trade with Hawks but hawks received from WB

We traded with St Kilda
Out 10 + Dougal + Paddy + 2020 Port Rd 4 pick
In.. 12 + 18 + 2020 Stk Rd 3 pick (at moment approx pick 50)

Then traded with Brisbane
Out 29 + 71 + 2020 Port Rd 1 pick
In.. 16 + 52 + 55 + 72

Pick 12 from St K becomes Pick 14 after 2 NGA bids matched and get Bergman

Pick 16 from Brisbane becomes Pick 18 after 2 NGA bids matched and get Georgiades

Pick 18 from St K becomes pick 20 and end of day 1 we trade that with Carlton and get picks 22 + 55

Pick 22 from Carlton gets us Dylan Williams.

So the StK trade for Ryder and Howard
directly got us Bergman but we could have used pick 10 on him so effective trade was

directly got us Williams
indirectly helped us get pts to bid on Mead ie pick 55 last year
indirectly will help us with pts to bid on Jones and/or Schofield ie StK's 3rd round pick this year

Pick 50 = 273 pts but because of 197 pt discount for picks after 18, that effectively is worth pick 38 if we have to make a matching bid at Pick 38 = 465 pts

Mate your the guru,
Still where is our 200cm defender with 5!years in the system, more importantly (Kens system)...not hating on anyone just saying.


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[raman]

About as strange as a port supporter called Ramen...

Uh, I guess you got me there.

 

[EvansHodges77]

Uh, I guess you got me there.

I didn’t mean anything hateful mate..I’m just trying to make a point


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[raman]

I didn’t mean anything hateful mate..I’m just trying to make a point

And your point is well made. Presumably. Depending on what it is.

 

[Chopperdave]

Mate your the guru,
Still where is our 200cm defender with 5!years in the system, more importantly (Kens system)...not hating on anyone just saying.


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On the flipside don't you think if after 5 years in "Kens system" if he wasn't performing the way we wanted maybe he's worth trading?

We have the best defence in the league this year I think we can't complain...

 

[EvansHodges77]

On the flipside don't you think if after 5 years in "Kens system" if he wasn't performing the way we wanted maybe he's worth trading?

We have the best defence in the league this year I think we can't complain...

Mate, I’ve backed Ken the whole way, it’s only a topic of conversation, wouldn’t you like a 200cm defender in the holster?


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[EvansHodges77]

And your point is well made. Presumably. Depending on what it is.

The point is that we need a 200cm defender, nothing more nothing less


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[raman]

The point is that we need a 200cm defender, nothing more nothing less

Evidently though, we don't.

 

[Hot Port]

Will never regret. Never liked him

 

[backtozero]

Can't believe we got Butters, Georgiades and Williams for him.

 

[Janus]

Because we were the best defence in the league this year without him?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Mate, I’ve backed Ken the whole way, it’s only a topic of conversation, wouldn’t you like a 200cm defender in the holster?


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I would like a 200cm defender but I want to be able to trust him. He spectates when he's not involved in the play. And it's not as if Monty wouldn't have worked on that failing with him.

Also don't forget St Kilda unsettled him as a contracted player with a big offer. I don't buy that whole playing in the forward line argument. He chased the dollar. Good luck to him but he doesn't belong in the team-first culture Port is building.

Look out for Pasini and Jones next year. They will be knocking hard on the door.

 

[Dalfino]

I liked Dougal. Had a bit of mongrel about him and seems to love a big moment, whether it's a goal or a massive spoil, but he had his tendencies to shit the bed and spoil instead of marking. McKenzie also has a tendency to shit the bed sometimes e.g. dropping that mark leading to the Dangerfield goal in the Qualifying Final, but his marking and general one-on-one contests this year has been above the standard of Dougal's in his time with us.

We honestly can't rate this trade until a few more years pass and we see how both Dougal and Williams develop. Making any calls now is jumping the gun a bit. I sit pretty comfortable with it considering where we are at the moment.

 

[Chizza12]

With Williams - didn’t we also get Collingwood’s second rounder - so Pick 27 this year if they lose tonight? Draft night swap...

And also a swap with Carlton that gave us points for Mead


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Yep, we gave up pick 22 to Brisbane and got back pick 23 and Collingwoods 2nd round pick.

 

[Steve Dore]

Please remind me why we traded Dougal Howard?

Because he is too tall.

 

[Willsy10]

Seriously overrated. We’ve looked so much safer in defence without him. Heart in mouth stuff with guys like Howard and pittard in defence.


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[jakey]

Dougal gets extra points from me because it was his kick in the general direction of KPF Jake Neade that ultimately led to 'what a tiiiiime'. Agree he never quite became the player we hoped.

But, I thought that we got less than value for him, particularly given it left us coming into a season presumably betting on either Lienert or McKenzie turning into a key back (or maybe we had plans for hoff as a break glass?). It sure worked out, but we really rolled the dice there in a way that looked absurd in December 2019.

 

[El_Scorcho]

This is really easy to say in hindsight when we're the best defensive team in the league, but Janus was exactly right in his criticism. He isn't disciplined or composed enough to play in our system I don't think. Wasn't the right fit defensively for our system. He's an excellent player who I fully expect to have a great career at the Saints. He'd definitely have helped in our loss against Brisbane.

I think this will probably be a good trade for all parties in the long run.

I wonder where he'd fit if he'd agreed to play forward for us. Would he be in the Marshall role or the Ladhams role? I assume the Marshall role, but i'm not convinced that would have been better for us.

He's a bit of a Jackson Trengove type before he got traded where he was clearly a best 22 footballer in terms of quality but just a bit of an awkward fit structurally for what we're trying to do.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Can't believe we got Butters, Georgiades and Williams for him.

And Boak I think.

 

[70sDinosaur]

I thought we traded him so he wouldn't get Wines into trouble with boats again.

 

[TeeKray]

The Dulmial Gun has been controlling the backline since March with his safe hands, strong bodywork and beautiful long left foot kick and people are still going on about this one trick pony? Carn guys, move on.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Doogs played well today. Hope he is happy and loving life at the Saints.

I honestly don't think we miss him on field.

Off field maybe because he was a grouse kisser.

 

[dirty2]

The point is that we need a 200cm defender, nothing more nothing less


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So a 200cm defender not 199 or less.. or 201+ high standards...

 

[Chewy316]

Just because he's 200cm doesn't mean that he has the requisite size to handle the bigger bodied.brute strength key forwards of the competition. He's tall but at just 92kg he is light on his frame. I personally don't think his frame is physically built to be any bigger either.

It's no secret that Carlisle is the one taking the biggest body down back for the Saints, not Dougal. You put Dougal on Hawkins, Kennedy, Lynch etc with our defensive scheme and he would not do a better job than McKenzie and Clurey have done this year.

That isn't to say that I would like to improve our key defender stocks, but i want someone in the 100+ kg mould to handle the big bulls of the competition who would subsequently make Clurey quality depth only.

 

[GremioPower]

Everyone who thinks they can trade better than Davies and Cripps thinks they could have done a better deal than what we received for Howard and Ryder but at the end of trading we did alright overall.

We certainly got unders. Davies and Cripps are willing to get unders if they still get what they want. It bothers me, I won't deny it, but I must recognize that the strategy is efficient.