Review Please remind me why we traded Dougal Howard?

[LeoMessi]

We have the meanest defence in the league. Strange thread.

No we don’t. We do have gaps as shown in games vs Lions and Cats in H&A. Plus, we are pretty undersized. We rely on our midfield to win the ball so we don’t have to defend most times

 

[Schulzenfest]

Are there people on here who actually legitimately think that Trent McKenzie is a better player than Howard? Because if so that's hilarious.

 

[ROBBBO]

Yeh Doggies played right into Dougalls hands all night bombing it in to their midget forward line

 

[Us against the rest]

But in this year where we have a real chance at the flag, our only major weakness is lack of height in defence and that could have been filled by Dougal.

If we miss the flag because our undermanned defence can’t contain Brisbane’s tall men then it doesn’t matter how good of a player Georgadis becomes - our window is now

Good point.

 

[Us against the rest]

No doubt mate, but it still doesn’t cover the 200cm + forwards we need to defend.
Look I’m not hating on anyone at all, but I think there was an oversight In this department


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True.
Howard 199cm 24ys and quick.
McKenzie 191cm 28ys

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

Are there people on here who actually legitimately think that Trent McKenzie is a better player than Howard? Because if so that's hilarious.

#jasperlover

 

[raptalia]

Of all the players we have let go I think Dougal maybe the one to come back and bite us in the arse. I know we gained a bit in the deal but we also lost a lot. I know Trent McKenzie has had a good year but if I had to choose between Trent and Dougs I would not be picking Trent. Mckenzie is what he is and will never get any better while yesterday Dougal showed he is capable of stepping up to the next level in the AFL and if he can replicate that form he may well be an AA defender in a year or two.

With the retirement of Watts and Westhoff we do not have any tall defensive options on the list and our tallest defender is 193cm. The 198cm Hawkins did not hurt us last Thursday but he got the ball easily enough, he had 13 disposals and took 7 marks, had he kicked straighter we may have been in trouble.

 

[Del165198]

Even hawthorn when winning flags went hunting for Brian Harris because they lacked that big Boi defender to handle the gorillas...

You need one. The seven dwarfs do ok but we've been exposed by Brisbane, Geelong and st Kilda with 200cm forwards this year

 

[backtozero]

Of all the players we have let go I think Dougal maybe the one to come back and bite us in the arse. I know we gained a bit in the deal but we also lost a lot. I know Trent McKenzie has had a good year but if I had to choose between Trent and Dougs I would not be picking Trent. Mckenzie is what he is and will never get any better while yesterday Dougal showed he is capable of stepping up to the next level in the AFL and if he can replicate that form he may well be an AA defender in a year or two.

With the retirement of Watts and Westhoff we do not have any tall defensive options on the list and our tallest defender is 193cm. The 198cm Hawkins did not hurt us last Thursday but he got the ball easily enough, he had 13 disposals and took 7 marks, had he kicked straighter we may have been in trouble.

Not sure if Dougal played on Hawkins in round 11 but he kicked 5 and the Cats won by 59 points.

We can bemoan the loss of Dougal but I'm not seeing a huge difference in the outcome vs. Geelong.

 

[MrChow]

It’s funny trades.

So St K also got Paddy, who has helped them make finals. But probably only has one more year, and there is a chance of injury (like last night).

Howard has been better than anyone else they had this year, and probably also has helped them make finals.

Doubt however, they will beat Richmond or us. So trade not a threat. Not sure St K will be a threat next year either.

We on the other hand, got Williams, who we are yet to see, but there is the potential that we have a small forward who can replace Robbie...

We also got points towards Mead, who we are yet to see, and possibly points towards Jones, who we are yet to see.

The sum of all of this is really a 2-12 year decision from now, with the club backing our current tall defenders and system - the best in the league in 2020 (and Hopefully 2021/2022).

I think the club thought Jack Watts still had a couple of years to go, and may not have traded Doogs if they knew Watts was done.

Still have prelim and Gf to go, have been lucky to escape any serious injuries back there, but I believe the club will look for some cheap cover this trade season. Maybe an almost retired player on a low salary rookie or 1-2 year contract, that costs us minimal draft points. Mostly to replace Watts and give Pasini more time to develop.

It’s still a yes to the trade for me. Doogs made a lot of mistakes, didn’t mark much footy, and was out of position a lot. We also increased our draft value for him, and got some use out of him.

Would not have had as good a year without McKenzie this year.

 

[raptalia]

Not sure if Dougal played on Hawkins in round 11 but he kicked 5 and the Cats won by 59 points.

We can bemoan the loss of Dougal but I'm not seeing a huge difference in the outcome vs. Geelong.

You miss the point it isn't just about one game. Hawkins didn't kick straight last week but he still took more marks than the entire Port forward line, in two games against us Hawkins had 30 possessions and took 17 marks. That we can be out marked by a 198cm forward has to be cause for concern and something we need to address in our list management. It is looking forward to correct a deficiency that is important.

 

[backtozero]

You miss the point it isn't just about one game. Hawkins didn't kick straight last week but he still took more marks than the entire Port forward line, in two games against us Hawkins had 30 possessions and took 17 marks. That we can be out marked by a 198cm forward has to be cause for concern and something we need to address in our list management. It is looking forward to correct a deficiency that is important.

How am i missing the point when Hawkins kicked 5 goals and took 5 marks against the Saints?

Dougal clearly isn't the difference. This thread is about Dougal.

 

[gbear]

Dougal played his best game yesterday, sadly he will go missing next week.

we could debate trading him extensively, but history will show whether it was a mistake in the future,

 

[raptalia]

How am i missing the point when Hawkins kicked 5 goals and took 5 marks against the Saints?

Dougal clearly isn't the difference. This thread is about Dougal.

It is about Port not the Saints. It you cannot see the relevance of not having Dougal Howard to use against a player like Hawkins I will not waste my time debating the issue with you.

 

[HinkleysHeroes]

Dougal played his best game yesterday, sadly he will go missing next week.

we could debate trading him extensively, but history will show whether it was a mistake in the future,

This.

He has a great game every now and then but then goes back to doing stupid shit like double fisting a ball to an opposition player when he is standing all alone.

He can be good but can also be a Chaplin, and this changes from week to week with more Chaplin like games vs good games. I like the guy, he has talent but I do not think he has the mentality to become a good/great defender of the league.

 

[TeeKray]

Are there people on here who actually legitimately think that Trent McKenzie is a better player than Howard? Because if so that's hilarious.

Yes.

The idea of Dougal Howard is better than the reality. He's inconsistent, he makes dumb errors, poor at ground level, he's not a particularly good kick, his marking is hit and miss hence why he spoils as a first preference.

I was one of the few who was happy they moved him forward because to be frank he's just the tall Pittard.

 

[Tibbs]

Pros:
Dougal is a wonderful person and teammate
Great size
Very athletic and fast for a tall player

Cons:
He just doesn't have a good footy brain
He is slightly one dimensional... "See ball, spoil ball"
From what I have gathered, he wasn't the most coachable player

Love Mckenzie to be 5cm taller, but he plays tall, he is much more skillful and smarter than Doogs, has a better weapon in his kicking, makes far less mistakes, and imo is much more reliable than Doogs.... Certainly at this stage.

I know we would like a taller kpf, but the reality is that it hasn't impacted us at all this year. It might next year, or the one after, but then who knows who we pick up.

Good thread discussion, but moot IMO

 

[The Rubber Man]

Yeah we essentially got George for him

We wanted another tall forward, he couldn't do it so we got someone else.

For whatever reason, the coaches didn't like the way he played defence, maybe didn't follow structure well, who knows. I thought he played it well.

Wont know if it will be a good trade or not for a good 5 years. George has had a good first year for a tall forward, but needs to improve obviously.

The obvious hole in our team is an A grade tall defender. So would definitely be interesting to hear the coaches reasons for not wanting him back there.

 

[JimmyBC]

It's the lack of a genuinely tall KPD rather than Dougal himself to me, I mean sure get rid of him but bring in a replacement at least.

I don't wanna say it but if we get in a tight final and the difference ends up a tall marking over our short people late in the game all our team defense knob polishing all year will be meaningless.

 

[Powerade 08]

Tall player does well against the Bulldogs. wow.

Let me guess, Ryder won the taps against English as well.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

My main problem with the trade was that it made us miss out on Will Day. Thats going to hurt.

 

[backtozero]

I'm trying to think of a time where our backs were genuinely outmarked because of their height.

When It comes to Hawkins, I remember him using his superior strength and the odd push in the back to outmark Clurey, and on Thursday he got seperation on McKenzie on the lead and took marks on the chest.

I can't remember the last time i thought "wow, height really killed us there"

Would I like a 200cm defender? hell yes.
Has losing Dougal made us more vulnerable in defence? Absolutely not.

 

[Scholz Supremacy]

My main problem with the trade was that it made us miss out on Will Day. Thats going to hurt.

Hopefully he wants to come home.

 

[Macca19]

Are there people on here who actually legitimately think that Trent McKenzie is a better player than Howard? Because if so that's hilarious.

Mckenzie has shown consistency this year that Howard never looked like showing. Whether hes a better player or not doesnt matter. Mckenzie and his traits have fit our team better

 

[malcheski]

How are people drawing assumptions from a KPD player having a good game against the Bulldogs? It’s akin to rating a midfield for beating the Crows. They look good because the opposition are shit.


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