Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 3

[Chief]

Continued in Part 4:

Vic - How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 4

This thread is Continued in Part 5: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-would-you-rate-daniel-andrews-performance-as-victorian-premier-part-5.1282789/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[eddiesmith]

Given that an 'abundance of caution' can be used to justify almost anything, who knows when the indoor mask policy will be removed.

I'm not concerned with policies that are unenforceable. I've been going maskless outside for awhile now and the same goes for when I have visitors over.

The you must carry a mask at all times I found funny, are they going to stop people outdoors if they are only 1.49m apart and fine them or force them to put on a mask?

But there is no way people will be sitting around the Christmas tree wearing masks on Christmas Day, no matter what Dan wants to happen. Or will he be sending the cops house to house counting visitors and checking mask wearing?

 

[eddiesmith]

I think the fact people aren't doing that, is why we have had such tight rules around home visitors for a while now


I mean, if wearing a mask when going to the shops for 45-90 minutes is all I need to do, then that doesn't bother me.

I'd like to not wear them at work but I suspect I'll have to until I get jabbed

But you can’t expect people in their own homes to be wearing masks, it is beyond ridiculous

We have health professionals come and visit and they wear one, likely as a rule of their work, but they don’t expect anyone else to be wearing them.

As evolved1 said, no one worries about any rule that cannot be enforced

 

[Kwality]

Does anyone really think the mask policy is even necessary indoors?

Family not mandatory, but tradies etc yes.
That rare commodity, common sense

 

[Millky95]

But you can’t expect people in their own homes to be wearing masks, it is beyond ridiculous

We have health professionals come and visit and they wear one, likely as a rule of their work, but they don’t expect anyone else to be wearing them.

As evolved1 said, no one worries about any rule that cannot be enforced

Oh and I don't. Only times I have had a mask on at home was trying on a new one I bought or when we had a plumber come in to look at some taps and it just felt appropriate. If no one is around me and I'm 30m from my car I'll walk to it with my mask off.

 

[Suspense]

I know NDIS doesn't support studies. However, there is already a student aid system called PSD (Program for Students with Disabilities).

Yes, a DET program - not NDIS.

All the extra money might just mean that an aid will be there for four days instead of two days. I know that kids with autism etc. were already getting student aids under the PSD program. So, I am not sure how much additional spending of 1.6 billion will achieve specifically for disabled kids, when the key issue appears to be more on curriculum and teaching methods (pedagogy) potentially.

The key issue, in relation to this announcement, is to support those students with disabilities to help them engage in their learning - part of which does relate to pedagogy. This issue is separate to any discussions about curriculum - as regardless of the specifics of the curriculum - each student needs to be able to engage with the curriculum content in order to learn.

I think the comparison benchmarks as I've noted further down below might be more informative to this discussion.

Not sure what you mean. You said something about "all kids learn is iPads" but the math curriculum is much more than that.

I think it is simplistic to say that if more money is spent on disability kids, the rest will come up.

Not simplistic - it is based on a wealth of educational research.

According to PISA 2018 (an OECD Study)

So, Australia's been in continual decline for all of the above. I am assuming here that on an OECD average level, the disabled kids would affect the results similarly (a little bit up or down), but the net result is that Australian education is clearly going downhill.

If you look comparatively with Singapore, which is the top rated country in OECD, the research is even more startling. Singapore, focuses on the fundamentals, teaching methods and standards far more. The curriculum is focussed and aims to actually cut out the the unnecessary bits.

I think it's a bit simplistic to suggest that changing the curriculum and "teaching methods" will catapult us to the top of the OECD rankings. This claim falls victim to the caeteris paribus fallacy, that the only variables in comparing the educational outcomes of the two nations are the curriculum and the teaching methods.

There is a curriculum trade-off between breadth, depth and rigour - but from your own link, it is only Science that lags behind Singapore in this respect (not Maths or English/Literacy):

This study locates variability of rigour across both curricula, particularly at the Secondary 4/Year 10 level. As Table 3.3 shows, the AC English and Mathematics and their equivalent are deemed to have a high degree of rigour across the primary and secondary years. At Year 10, however, the AC Science is assessed as moderate, in contrast to its Singapore equivalent, which is deemed as having a highly rigorous curriculum.



I agree that we need students with better literacy and numeracy fundamentals - particularly at the lower grades. If educational research and international outcomes suggest that cutting 10-30% of the content is the best way to go to enhance the learning of all students, I have no problem with it if it means building a deeper understanding of the most essential content of subject areas. Either way, I'm just not sure what this has to do with funding for students who suffer from a learning disability.

How much funding do you need to cut 10-30% of the content of the Australian curriculum?

What teaching methods would you like Australian teachers to adopt that Singaporean teachers are using?

If you see below, literacy, numeracy and ICT is not even considered as separate general capabilities in Victoria.

They should probably be included as GC - but I'm not sure how it functionally matters all that much. Literacy is covered in English, Numeracy is covered in Maths and ICT is covered in Digital Technologies. They are all important skills - but it's not like they are being ignored.

 

[Evolved1]

The you must carry a mask at all times I found funny, are they going to stop people outdoors if they are only 1.49m apart and fine them or force them to put on a mask?

But there is no way people will be sitting around the Christmas tree wearing masks on Christmas Day, no matter what Dan wants to happen. Or will he be sending the cops house to house counting visitors and checking mask wearing?

That's a great idea. Have cops out and about with measuring tape and give $10,000 fines to anyone who breaches the rule. You could have different levels of fines depending on how close people get. I'm surprised they haven't thought of this already.

 

[eddiesmith]

Oh and I don't. Only times I have had a mask on at home was trying on a new one I bought or when we had a plumber come in to look at some taps and it just felt appropriate. If no one is around me and I'm 30m from my car I'll walk to it with my mask off.

Where I was living up the country it was 200m from door to car and even though there were other units between, I never wore it to and from car but technically we were probably supposed to

I have had tradies who preferred it be worn and others who just didn’t care. One day I had one who was only there 5 minutes and all outside but he kept a wide berth, was funny as that was very early in mask wearing days.

I suppose it’s why I’ve always hated a blanket policy just so it’s easily enforceable, how about you just let people use common sense. Sure some may not comply but they won’t anyway and the rest of us are smart enough to know when it’s not necessary

 

[Evolved1]

Where I was living up the country it was 200m from door to car and even though there were other units between, I never wore it to and from car but technically we were probably supposed to

I have had tradies who preferred it be worn and others who just didn’t care. One day I had one who was only there 5 minutes and all outside but he kept a wide berth, was funny as that was very early in mask wearing days.

I suppose it’s why I’ve always hated a blanket policy just so it’s easily enforceable, how about you just let people use common sense. Sure some may not comply but they won’t anyway and the rest of us are smart enough to know when it’s not necessary

I've had debates with colleagues over whether we were required to wear masks while mowing the front lawn and we couldn't come to any agreement. Dictator Dan has people walking on eggshells for fear of being fined.

I really think our number plates should say 'Victoria - The fine state'.

 

[Millky95]

Where I was living up the country it was 200m from door to car and even though there were other units between, I never wore it to and from car but technically we were probably supposed to

I have had tradies who preferred it be worn and others who just didn’t care. One day I had one who was only there 5 minutes and all outside but he kept a wide berth, was funny as that was very early in mask wearing days.

I suppose it’s why I’ve always hated a blanket policy just so it’s easily enforceable, how about you just let people use common sense. Sure some may not comply but they won’t anyway and the rest of us are smart enough to know when it’s not necessary

I still see people wearing masks below their nose. I have seen people talk into the wrong end of the microphone. People who can't use indicators. People are just stupid and lack common sense. People who don't use the hand sani when walking into shops.

Common sense would be to not lie to the contact tracers but the guy in SA still did.

Common sense isn't actually very common at all, sadly

 

[Evolved1]

Family not mandatory, but tradies etc yes.
That rare commodity, common sense

Other states take a different 'common sense' approach.

 

[Mateyman]

I've had debates with colleagues over whether we were required to wear masks while mowing the front lawn and we couldn't come to any agreement. Dictator Dan has people walking on eggshells for fear of being fined.

I really think our number plates should say 'Victoria - The fine state'.

Except nobody was ever going to be fined for not wearing a mask while lawnmowing. Like who cares if there's laws which you can just safely ignore when you're on your own? I don't really get the fuss. Glad the mask rule outside is gone now though

 

[Evolved1]

I still see people wearing masks below their nose. I have seen people talk into the wrong end of the microphone. People who can't use indicators. People are just stupid and lack common sense. People who don't use the hand sani when walking into shops.

Common sense would be to not lie to the contact tracers but the guy in SA still did.

Common sense isn't actually very common at all, sadly

He's a Spanish man on a temporary graduate visa so his alleged lie could be a misunderstanding caused by a language barrier. I'd rather wait to see the full story before accepting spin from politicians.

 

[eddiesmith]

I still see people wearing masks below their nose. I have seen people talk into the wrong end of the microphone. People who can't use indicators. People are just stupid and lack common sense. People who don't use the hand sani when walking into shops.

Common sense would be to not lie to the contact tracers but the guy in SA still did.

Common sense isn't actually very common at all, sadly

I’ve come to the conclusion that BMW and VW are the culprits when it comes to indicators, they build their cars without them, it’s the only logical conclusion

The hand sanitiser thing though, I don’t always, I have my own that I use. But the other day I got out of the car, used my own sanitiser and I walked into a shop and got told to use theirs. I did but thought it was funny I’ve just finished sanitising!

As for the Adelaide guy, that had legal reasons for his lying, don’t get me started on the common link between all these major outbreaks...

 

[Evolved1]

Except nobody was ever going to be fined for not wearing a mask while lawnmowing. Like who cares if there's laws which you can just safely ignore when you're on your own? I don't really get the fuss. Glad the mask rule outside is gone now though

What if there's a footpath between your front lawn and nature strip, leaving you within 1.5 meters of anyone passing by?

Think back to some of the dumb fines handed out this year and it's completely believable that you could have been fined for mowing your lawn without a mask.

 

[eddiesmith]

Except nobody was ever going to be fined for not wearing a mask while lawnmowing. Like who cares if there's laws which you can just safely ignore when you're on your own? I don't really get the fuss. Glad the mask rule outside is gone now though

But you get morons who get upset if they see you outside without a mask. I’ve been tooted at by people driving past if I’m outside on my own and no mask.

The other issue with this pandemic and the governments attempted coverup is then turning people against their fellow Victorians

 

[Millky95]

He's a Spanish man on a temporary graduate visa so his alleged lie could be a misunderstanding caused by a language barrier. I'd rather wait to see the full story before accepting spin from politicians.

As for the Adelaide guy, that had legal reasons for his lying, don’t get me started on the common link between all these major outbreaks...

It was just an example but doesn't invalidate the rest of what I said

The hand sanitiser thing though, I don’t always, I have my own that I use. But the other day I got out of the car, used my own sanitiser and I walked into a shop and got told to use theirs. I did but thought it was funny I’ve just finished sanitising!

I consider using the hand sani as a condition of entry. Like the old "no shirt, no shoes, no service" kinda thing. If everyone has clean hands when entering the store, everything is clean to touch.

 

[Evolved1]

It was just an example but doesn't invalidate the rest of what I said

Fair enough.

I consider using the hand sani as a condition of entry. Like the old "no shirt, no shoes, no service" kinda thing. If everyone has clean hands when entering the store, everything is clean to touch.

I hope the increased focus on hygiene becomes permanent. People are ******* disgusting.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

That's a great idea. Have cops out and about with measuring tape and give $10,000 fines to anyone who breaches the rule. You could have different levels of fines depending on how close people get. I'm surprised they haven't thought of this already.

Do you realise how silly your post is? Grow up man/woman.......

 

[Brad Goodman]

I hope the increased focus on hygiene becomes permanent. People are ******* disgusting.

A little bit of me dies inside any time a bloke walks out of a cubicle and doesn't wash his hands on the way out.

 

[Turnover]

But you get morons who get upset if they see you outside without a mask. I’ve been tooted at by people driving past if I’m outside on my own and no mask.

The other issue with this pandemic and the governments attempted coverup is then turning people against their fellow Victorians

Lol. How did you know they were tooting you for not wearing a mask? Sounds made up.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

But you get morons who get upset if they see you outside without a mask. I’ve been tooted at by people driving past if I’m outside on my own and no mask.

The other issue with this pandemic and the governments attempted coverup is then turning people against their fellow Victorians

Have a gander at the poll in The Age. Victorians - with the exception of rusted-on rightists and people like Frydo who lives in Victoria but is not for Victoria - are together and on-side with Andrews. Says so much about Andrews success in righting the ship that people are indulging in pedantry about masks to point score.

 

[Evolved1]

A little bit of me dies inside any time a bloke walks out of a cubicle and doesn't wash his hands on the way out.

It happens far more often than I care to think about. Neanderthals.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Does anyone really think the mask policy is even necessary indoors?

Only highly regarded infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists. But what would they know.

 

[Evolved1]

Only highly regarded infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists. But what would they know.

How do these "highly regarded infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists" you speak of feel about the mask policies that other states have adopted?

Only a Dan fanboi like yourself couldn't see the politics involved.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Does anyone really think the mask policy is even necessary indoors?

Based upon chaddy today, yep

Joint was packed, pretty much on par for Christmas peak