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Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt2

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WARNING TO ALL VISITORS TO THE GEELONG BOARD. You are - for the most part - welcome to discuss the current list management & trading situation at Geelong. However, this is our board, so be respectful of the home board posters & don't inflame arguments (make your points succinctly and move on). And if you're just here to troll, then don't bother or you will be enjoying a holiday
 
Rotation will be huge with Higgins and Smith in particular.

Looks to be our long-term Smith, Menegola, Duncan replacement, IMO (2 years of development and then Smith retires and Holmes steps straight into his spot)
 
As a late night undertaking (after a few drinks), have decided to see how we ended up, going back to the Motlop trade that started it all:

2017 Trade Period -

OUT: Motlop (Pick 19), 2018 Future 2nd (Pick 28)
IN: Ablett, Pick 24

2017 Draft Period -

Pick 24: Tim Kelly

2019 Trade Period -

OUT: Kelly, Pick 57, Future 3rd
IN: Pick 14, Pick 24 (became Pick 27), Pick 37, 2020 Future 1st (Pick 18)

2019 Draft Period -

Pick 16: Cooper Stephens, Pick 24 (became Pick 27) traded for 2020 GC Concession Pick 11 (became Pick 15), Pick 37 (ended up becoming Jenkins & Taheny at 50 after a whole bunch of pick swaps and trades)

2020 Trade Period -

OUT: GC Concession Pick 13 (11 prior to trade period, then became 15), Pick 15 (became 18), Pick 20 (became 24)
IN: Jeremy Cameron, Future 2nd Essendon (Pick 24-26), Future 2nd GWS (Pick 25-30)

****************************************

Provided Essendon finish bottom 8 - as most expect next year - then our Future Pick should be around 24 - just the same as the Pick 20 that ended up being Pick 24 for GWS - they cancel each other out.

If we also say that the Future 2nd we gave to GC as part of the Ablett deal (Pick 28) is equal to the Future 2nd we have from GWS in 2021 (Pick 25-30), then we can say that they cancel each other out too.

This means, that we essentially gave up Motlop and 2 picks in the 50's for Jeremy Cameron, Cooper Stephens, Cam Taheny, Josh Jenkins and 3 years of Gary Ablett. I haven't bothered with all the machinations of the Pick 37 that basically ended up becoming Cam Taheny & [PLAYERCARD]Josh Jenkins - as it doesn't really add anything. Also didn't bother with the Future 4th we gave to GC, as I have no idea where that ended up and it's not that important.

Additionally, if we value Taheny where we drafted him at Pick 50, and Jenkins as a mid 50's pick, then that cancels out the two 50's picks we gave to WC as part of the Kelly trade.

Basically, when you break everything down over the 3 year duration, it means we essentially got Cameron, C. Stephens and 3 years of Ablett ...for Motlop.

That's insane, lol

****************************************

To look at this in another way, we could look at who we've drafted and who/what we've lost over the past 4 years:

Drafted/traded in since Motlop trade - listed in order of Best 22 viability (only players still on list included):


Jeremy Cameron
Shaun Higgins
Isaac Smith
Luke Dahlhaus
Gryan Miers
Gary Rohan
Jordan Clark
Brad Close
Tom Atkins
SDK
Cooper Stephens
Nathan Kreuger
Charlie Constable
Francis Evans
Cam Taheny
Josh Jenkins
Darcy Fort
Ben Jarvis
Stefan Okunbor
Max Holmes
Shannon Neale
Nick Stevens
Paul Tsapatolis
Oscar Brownless

************

Traded out since Motlop trade

Tim Kelly
Steven Motlop
Lachie Fogarty
Nakia Cockatoo
Linc McCarthy
Jamaine Jones
Zac Smith (rookie listed)
Darcy Lang (delisted)
George Horlin-Smith (delisted)
Jordan Murdoch (rookie listed)
Jackson Thurlow (delisted, but could be re-rookied)
Daniel Menzel (delisted)
Ryan Abbott (delisted)

Delisted/retired players drafted or traded in since Motlop trade

Stewart Crameri
Jacob Kennerley
Jake Tarca
Blake Schlensog
Gary Ablett Jnr.
Jack Steven

****************

Reckon we've done pretty well, all things considering :)

Happy reading!
 
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Right, so now that the draft is over, can someone answer a dumb question for me?

Why is it that we have all these Geelong Falcons players (who are in our backyard), but they don't end up being part of our academy.

The simple answer is they are not of aboriginal heritage or they don't have at least one of the parents born overseas.
 
I totally agree holmes would have gone by 25 i just would have offered richmond essendons future 2nd and maybe a future 3rd or 4th i wouldnt have risked touching our future 1st..but i really like the pick its only the price im not a fan of.
Pretty sure we had a few offers but the cats really wanted it. We obviously have something planned for next year with 2 picks in each of the first three rounds to refresh the list or bring in a big name.

Best of luck to the kid
 
As a late night undertaking (after a few drinks), have decided to see how we ended up, going back to the Motlop trade that started it all:

2017 Trade Period -

OUT: Motlop (Pick 19), 2018 Future 2nd (Pick 28)
IN: Ablett, Pick 24

2017 Draft Period -

Pick 24: Tim Kelly

2019 Trade Period -

OUT: Kelly, Pick 57, Future 3rd
IN: Pick 14, Pick 24 (became Pick 27), Pick 37, 2020 Future 1st (Pick 18)

2019 Draft Period -

Pick 16: Cooper Stephens, Pick 24 (became Pick 27) traded for 2020 GC Concession Pick 11 (became Pick 15), Pick 37 (ended up becoming Jenkins & Taheny at 50 after a whole bunch of pick swaps and trades)

2020 Trade Period -

OUT: GC Concession Pick 13 (11 prior to trade period, then became 15), Pick 15 (became 18), Pick 20 (became 24)
IN: Jeremy Cameron, Future 2nd Essendon (Pick 24-26), Future 2nd GWS (Pick 25-30)

****************************************

Provided Essendon finish bottom 8 - as most expect next year - then our Future Pick should be around 24 - just the same as the Pick 20 that ended up being Pick 24 for GWS - they cancel each other out.

If we also say that the Future 2nd we gave to GC as part of the Ablett deal (Pick 28) is equal to the Future 2nd we have from GWS in 2021 (Pick 25-30), then we can say that they cancel each other out too.

This means, that we essentially gave up Motlop and 2 picks in the 50's for Jeremy Cameron, Cooper Stephens, Cam Taheny, Josh Jenkins and 3 years of Gary Ablett.

I haven't bothered with all the machinations of the Pick 37 that basically ended up becoming Cam Taheny & Josh Jenkins - as it doesn't really add anything. Also didn't bother with the Future 4th we gave to GC, as I have no idea where that ended up and it's not that important.

Additionally, if we value Taheny where we drafted him at Pick 50, and Jenkins as a mid 50's pick, then that cancels out the two 50's picks we gave to WC as part of the Kelly trade.

Basically, when you break everything down over the 3 year duration, it means we essentially got Cameron, C. Stephens and 3 years of Ablett ...for Motlop.

That's insane, lol

****************************************

To look at this in another way, we could look at who we've drafted and who/what we've lost over the past 4 years:

Drafted/traded in since Motlop trade - listed in order of Best 22 viability (only players still on list included):


Jeremy Cameron
Shaun Higgins
Isaac Smith
Luke Dahlhaus
Gryan Miers
Gary Rohan
Jordan Clark
Brad Close
Tom Atkins
SDK
Cooper Stephens
Nathan Kreuger
Charlie Constable
Francis Evans
Cam Taheny
Josh Jenkins
Darcy Fort
Ben Jarvis
Stefan Okunbor
Max Holmes
Shannon Neale
Nick Stevens
Paul Tsapatolis
Oscar Brownless

************

Traded out since Motlop trade

Tim Kelly
Steven Motlop
Lachie Fogarty
Nakia Cockatoo
Linc McCarthy
Jamaine Jones
Zac Smith (rookie listed)
Darcy Lang (delisted)
George Horlin-Smith (delisted)
Jordan Murdoch (rookie listed)
Jackson Thurlow (delisted, but could be re-rookied)
Daniel Menzel (delisted)
Ryan Abbott (delisted)

Delisted/retired players drafted or traded in since Motlop trade

Stewart Crameri
Jacob Kennerley
Jake Tarca
Blake Schlensog
Gary Ablett Jnr.
Jack Steven

****************

Reckon we've done pretty well, all things considering :)

Happy reading!
Kudos for doing this. I started trying to unpick it a few weeks ago and got fed up trying.
 
Things I didn't want in the draft:

Trading out 2021 capital
Another ruck after we picked up Tsapatolis
Another 190cm defender

That said all the kids we picked up look worth a shot. Heath looks like he could be a star if we develop him right. Neale looks a monster. Stevens at the pick looks like a fair call.

I am going to get real impatient waiting to watch some 2s games next year
We needed to get a legit ruck prospect in Neale. I don’t expect Tsapatolis to even play afl at all. If he does that’s great but he’s just purely a swing for the fences. His lack of footy puts him so far behind Neale.
 
Pretty sure we had a few offers but the cats really wanted it. We obviously have something planned for next year with 2 picks in each of the first three rounds to refresh the list or bring in a big name.

Best of luck to the kid
Don’t think it was a plan it was more that your targets were gone so moved on to next years draft instead
 
We needed to get a legit ruck prospect in Neale. I don’t expect Tsapatolis to even play afl at all. If he does that’s great but he’s just purely a swing for the fences. His lack of footy puts him so far behind Neale.
Yeah but you only need one #1 ruck on the field. We have Stanley, Fort, Blitz, Sav potentially, plus Tsapatolis. Abound 10% of the list trying to cover 5% of the on field positions.
 

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Yeah but you only need one #1 ruck on the field. We have Stanley, Fort, Blitz, Sav potentially, plus Tsapatolis. Abound 10% of the list trying to cover 5% of the on field positions.

Blitz will be playing down back next year. Tsapatolis is a massive project player who probably won't even be in senior calculations for 2-3 years at best, so Fort and Stanley might've been moved on by then anyway.

I find it strange that for years folks have been asking for the club to draft a young ruckman to develop, but now we have, plus put a speculative pick on our Category B rookie list who could potentially play the same position it's suddenly a mistake.
 
Has BF sh*t itself or is my internet just slow?
it shit the bed

which was x100 frustrating as I took me 15 mins to do what should have taken 3 with the last pick and I was SO close to going to bed... 15 mins at 330 am is like 45 lol

GO Catters
 
I think we can safely assume Richmond said 'no', and the 1st rounder was what we needed to give to get it done.

I'm not really fussed about it, personally. There is a good chance we finish top 4. And if that eventuates, we've effectively swapped a late first round pick for a late first round pick.

I agree there is a chance it could be 20 for 20 but it could also end up being pick 8. Which is why i would have offered richmond one of our future 2nds and a 3rd and then walked away and let melbourne take holmes when richmond asked for a future 1st. That said i think holmes can be very very good i just dont like the price risk.

Best part of the night for me is getting Neale though great pick.
 
Yeah but you only need one #1 ruck on the field. We have Stanley, Fort, Blitz, Sav potentially, plus Tsapatolis. Abound 10% of the list trying to cover 5% of the on field positions.

Stanley is 30 Fort is nearly 30 and a journeyman blitz has to play back for a few years now and Sav might not be on the list in 3 years and Tsapa is a long shot. Our future ruck stocks are thin in 3 years Neale might be the only one on the list. We needed this pick.
 
While I thought the price paid for the Holmes pick was a little high, I was pretty happy with the guys Wells targeted. All high upside, under exposed players. Guys will all the physical tools who will need to be given time. Don't know the players well enough to criticise or praise but like the theory. Don't know if we've drafted such a bunch of athletes in the past.
but unlike the "athletes" we've previousyl taken, this lot seems to have a higher footy pedigree and experience than the Greek and Blitz.

IE - they are all in the current AFL system in some way shape or form.

GO Catters
 

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Things I didn't want in the draft:

Trading out 2021 capital
Another ruck after we picked up Tsapatolis
Another 190cm defender

That said all the kids we picked up look worth a shot. Heath looks like he could be a star if we develop him right. Neale looks a monster. Stevens at the pick looks like a fair call.

I am going to get real impatient waiting to watch some 2s games next year

This x 1000. The VFL will be really be peaking my already high interest....

The development is brimming with points of interest and given that the lists have gotten smaller and competition is up, i reckon any complacency will be gone and those that REALLY want it... will have to be showing that want.

And seeing the Miers, whilst not a VFL player - is talking about gut driving motivation, the attitudes of the group could be very hungry indeed - something that honestly has lacked at times IMO.

GO Catters
 
I get all that but the way the draft order was we had no way to get henry..only richmond wanted to ship a top 20 pick out and he was never making it that far.

Bruhns interview was interesting..he didnt look very happy to be going to the giants did he?

Trading up only work if there is a willing partner.... and as much as Henry would have been good if the doors don't open for the price we are offering, it's all
over. So yes Henry wold have been good but if Holmes cost is an issue, then 2 x Rd1 picks or FR1 plus 2 x FR2 would have opened that door but would it have been worth it?

As for Bruhn, first reactions are real. And his was not happy at all IMO. GWS didnt read that room very well and while he's got 2 years to get over it.... id expect the GFC boys already have that number on speed dial.

GO Catters
 
Forgetting what we paid for Holmes, I like the 3 picks. Outside run is clearly a weakness and now with Holmes to develop alongside Clark we have a couple of decent young wingers. We desperately needed to add a development ruck and Neale is the best in this years draft pool. Whilst we are well stocked for hbf’s, I don’t rate Kolo and O’Connor could decide to return to Ireland after another season or so. Stewart isn’t a kid either.

Next year though we need to go for mids, mids and more mids. Do what North did this year. We are very quickly going to fall if we don’t bring some quality ball winners in with Selwood, Danger and Duncan coming to their ends.
 
Right, so now that the draft is over, can someone answer a dumb question for me?

Why is it that we have all these Geelong Falcons players (who are in our backyard), but they don't end up being part of our 'academy'?

Something that has baffled me for a while, and something I can't wrap my head around. Surely we should have first access to talent in our region, rather than just getting the dregs from other regions?

The amount of Falcons who turn out to be stars, is almost sickening. If we had of had that access all along like Sydney and GWS have had with the riverina, I daresay, we would have an extra few flags
Agree, the falcons have an outstanding footy program. It is a case of the Cats being able to access this talent via the draft. The best go early, which is at the opposite end of the cats draft position.
 
but unlike the "athletes" we've previousyl taken, this lot seems to have a higher footy pedigree and experience than the Greek and Blitz.

IE - they are all in the current AFL system in some way shape or form.

GO Catters
I probably wouldn't put them in the category of Greek and Blitz where they are outsiders to the system. More the Jack Henry athlete where you do both. Where I think that helps is that there is every likely hood that if the season wasn't a write off both Holmes and Stevens would have risen up the draft order. Their basic flaw is lack of exposure in their bottom age year which then made them a larger risk because the season was a write off. However, both would have really benefited from a season.

Stevens in particular has exceptional footy background. Think he could be a bargain and even his stats etc when he did play are actually reasonable for a bottom ager, its just he didn't play a huge sample of games like the higher prospects due to injury. His games he did play seem to stack up fairly well though.

And Holmes, once again his problem is amount of exposure, is it just a flash in the pan or is it capable of being more consistent and developing into an AFL player. The risk is not ability or attributes, its exposure in his underage year. Once again when he has played and even early this year, he looked good but its a very small sample.

Really think these picks have huge upside and Wells could make a few look stupid but there is that risk its flash in the pan type stuff not a gold bar.
 
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