Game Day Carlton v St Kilda Practice Match Gameday Discussion

[SurreyBlue]

Sadly, I thought we looked quite a way off the pace tonight. St Kilda are a good, but flawed team in the 4-6 range and they comfortably put us away and scored at will, spent a quarter playing around with things a bit, then turned on the jets and belted us for the last 5 minutes.

As always, I feel like there’s small picture wins that mask big picture flaws. Fisher is arguably our best player now, both Saad and Williams added something, and a few others showed bits and bibs. We scored 100pts, our stoppages were good, and our depth is good.

But the big picture is we have too many flaws that limit our ceiling to the 8-12 range.

Our disposal as a team is shocking. Too many mistakes, not just under pressure but just straight poor skills. Good teams don’t cop that. Worst thing is it starts with our leaders and veterans - Cripps, Docherty, Saad, Jones, Plowman - all turn the ball over badly. It’s no surprise the best teams of the last decade were built around leaders like Hodge, Martin, Mitchell whose disposal is excellent.

We also really lack star power. Cripps hasn’t looked the same player under Teague and Docherty is just a shell of what he was. Do we have a single one of the best 50 players in the league on recent form? I’d argue not. We might have 8 players in the next tier and a lot of solid depth, but unless someone makes the leap I just don’t think we can keep pace with the best.

And lastly, our pressure and defensive structures are poor. I know it’s a practice game but there’s a real lack of tackling speed and capacity across the lines, while a defence including Docherty, Jones, Saad and SPS has too many guys who are attack- focused and get pulled out position,, as St Kilda did repeatedly.

What does it add up to? I think we’re a mature, deep, team who can win contested ball, but deeply flawed with poor disposal, poor defensive structures and less firepower than others. Oh, and a worrying set of KP injuries. That’s unfortunately not the bio of a team ready to make the leap - I think we are Essendon of the last decade unfortunately right now rather than Richmond of 2015.

But I guess there’s a lot to play out, and it’s a step up from the last five years so I’ll take it right now!

Our disposal is a serious concern. Cripps is a worry.
Yet having said that, we nearly pinched the game without a KP forward and no.22 on the park.

 

[Blue Heart]

Is he hung like a horse?

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I hope not for his sake, as Kingston Town was gelded after his 1st start !!!

 

[Metalcrusher]

Whilst I agree with some of your comments judge us away from the shithole that is Marvel.We look completely different.


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Yet again ... we will need to play there because ... fixture. So somebody needs to come up with a gameplan.

 

[FRUMPY]

Whilst I agree with some of your comments judge us away from the shithole that is Marvel.We look completely different.


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Where well play, I'm guessing, 7 or 8 games at a minimum? Great excuse.

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[Coona Blues]

Small, one-paced, no hurt factor. Not sure he's even a back up.

Currently finishing off his first ever "full" pre season so is underdone. We don't taper the training before the season proper so did a good job to finish the game.
Expect a few of the boys to be running more "on top of the ground" next up.

I am a big fan of young Fog, but would not mind if he has some conditioning in the twos with so many vying for round one berths in his positional range.
A bit perplexed why Gibbons was not used. With seemingly extended quarters an "oxygen brother" certainly would be handy to carry some workload.

 

[FRUMPY]

I hope not for his sake, as Kingston Town was gelded after his 1st start !!!

Haha......well you may be onto something.....although kiss goodbye to father/son rule.....

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[azlou]

Our goals are so scrappy, from stoppages or broken play. Still ugly disposal, ugly f50 entries, lack of rhythm and flow. St Kilda’s stoppage defence has been ugly too.

St Jilda have been beautiful to watch at times - fast flowing , aggressive, good tackling.

Docherty is such a worry for me. Got a free pass last year but still looks a mile off and it’s not like he has another position to play. But sad really and a tough one going forward...
[/QUOTE

Please dismiss the quote don’t no how to un quote thought we looked a lot better when we hanballed more in the second half
Stkida seemed better structured zigzagging 45 degree handball game
We need to handball back a bit more and start finding players in space
Murphy looked to have lost a yard or two he played ok but I can’t seem him applying much pressure

 

[Robert Heatley]

Does he look a lot like someone else because from Q1 to at some point in Q3 I had not noticed him

it’s hard getting used to new players. I felt like he got involved a bit just inside the square.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Wow good to see the Plowman bashing goes on for another year

Plowman, Jones & Weitering are our only defenders who can actually defend..


Positives..
Ability to score
Second half defence
Speed with ball
Dow - Is my man now, looks to have taken some big steps only 70% game time
Walsh - Had his usual big night
Fish - Could be something special
Murphy - Where he should be up forward
JSOS - Had a super game, finally got reward for effort
Pittonet - Had a super game also starting to get some sticky hands
Jones and Weitering - Solid as always

Negatives..
First half defence was shocking
Injuries
Man on mark rule
Sad Sacks on here Sad Sacking

Saints will be close to flag favourites, especially if they play like tonight, they are going to destroy teams..
To think we got back to within 6 points with the players we had missing, leads me to think we may be a top 8 team this year

 

[Blue Heart]

Our disposal is a serious concern. Cripps is a worry.
Yet having said that, we nearly pinched the game without a KP forward and no.22 on the park.

Same old same old !!! We will be also rans AGAIN unless we can improve our collective disposal. Just too many turnovers to be
a consistently winning team.

 

[Kreuz Control]

Quick legs can't replace strong legs. First 2 or 3 weeks the games are as quick as ever, then they slow down and the slower players begin to excel.

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I know what you're saying but I wouldn't say "slower" players as such.
Ed's different as he's proven to be a gut-running beast (better than the majority of others) that can stop his opponent (at an elite level) whilst also getting great clearance, tackle and disposal numbers.


On top of that, he does it as a battering ram and helping younger bodies around him.
Would love for Ed to take Stocker under his wing and show him what it takes, will be nice to have a brute (as Brodie said) back in the middle.

 

[thylacine60]

Our disposal is a serious concern. Cripps is a worry.
Yet having said that, we nearly pinched the game without a KP forward and no.22 on the park.

it's basically come down to the following - we can't win a final whilst 22 has a career...........come at me...........

 

[GapInIkonPark]

So a long injury list which got longer and Cripps barely played midfield or had an influence.

Thought it was the best I’ve seen Dow play.

 

[FRUMPY]

it's basically come down to the following - we can't win a final whilst 22 has a career...........come at me...........

Should recruit no 22 so we can guarantee a flag

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[reubsblues]

without jones tonight we lose by 10 goals
I really wish certain other players played with his desperation

 

[FRUMPY]

I know what you're saying but I wouldn't say "slower" players as such.
Ed's different as he's proven to be a gut-running beast (better than the majority of others) that can stop his opponent (at an elite level) whilst also getting great clearance, tackle and disposal numbers.


On top of that, he does it as a battering ram and helping younger bodies around him.
Would love for Ed to take Stocker under his wing and show him what it takes, will be nice to have a brute (as Brodie said) back in the middle.

First few games are what equickest of the year, some players struggle to keep up with the tempo. Then it corrects itself and those players catch up

Having said that, Ed, i would presume, will be around the ball and have a defensive role rather than what he played tonight.

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[ItsAllAboutMe]

Oscar McDonald

21

Oscar Mcdonald

Age

28

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

191.4

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

3star

MG

157.7

3star

D

14.8

4star

K

5.4

2star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.4

3star

MG

138.4

3star

was okay, but his field kicking is still sooo bad, you would simply never trust him with ball in hand, it’s a pass for me. Moore is simply not good enough, pass.

would rather keep the list spots available for mid season draft.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I do find it weird we 'hire' kruezer as a ruck coach......what havent they learnt the last few years playing with/under him?

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What an odd comment.
I find it weird that the Hawks continue to hire Clarko. What haven't they learned the last few years from playing under him? They should be able to win flags all on their own now.

Every team has a ruck coach. We need one too. We chose Kreuz. If he's not up to it, he won't last long.

 

[gunslingr]

We need to handball back a bit more and start finding players in space

We also need to handball to the advantage of a running player, something I feel we’ve been poor at for years - we’re only going to partially exploit Saad’s speed if he keeps getting it at a standing start (Dow’s HB to set up Saad was v good).

 

[Koutamightafides]

Martin is a passenger

I just had to say that

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s**t yeah one bad game sack him immediately .

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Defensive running and tank in general still needs work but you can see the work he put in with Greg Williams. Fantastic hands.

Those things have always been not as strong for him as most other midfielders when drafted, being a explosive junior player who only played midfield in his last year of U18’s from playing halfback the previous year, nowhere a natural aerobic player he was always going to take some time to be able to build up his tank that would enable him to run and compete at the level... If the kid can get the aerobic side of his game to a great level ‘which I’ve always thought he could in time’ then he has the potential to be something pretty special...

 

[The Grover]

Sadly, I thought we looked quite a way off the pace tonight. St Kilda are a good, but flawed team in the 4-6 range and they comfortably put us away and scored at will, spent a quarter playing around with things a bit, then turned on the jets and belted us for the last 5 minutes.

As always, I feel like there’s small picture wins that mask big picture flaws. Fisher is arguably our best player now, both Saad and Williams added something, and a few others showed bits and bibs. We scored 100pts, our stoppages were good, and our depth is good.

But the big picture is we have too many flaws that limit our ceiling to the 8-12 range.

Our disposal as a team is shocking. Too many mistakes, not just under pressure but just straight poor skills. Good teams don’t cop that. Worst thing is it starts with our leaders and veterans - Cripps, Docherty, Saad, Jones, Plowman - all turn the ball over badly. It’s no surprise the best teams of the last decade were built around leaders like Hodge, Martin, Mitchell whose disposal is excellent.

We also really lack star power. Cripps hasn’t looked the same player under Teague and Docherty is just a shell of what he was. Do we have a single one of the best 50 players in the league on recent form? I’d argue not. We might have 8 players in the next tier and a lot of solid depth, but unless someone makes the leap I just don’t think we can keep pace with the best.

And lastly, our pressure and defensive structures are poor. I know it’s a practice game but there’s a real lack of tackling speed and capacity across the lines, while a defence including Docherty, Jones, Saad and SPS has too many guys who are attack- focused and get pulled out position,, as St Kilda did repeatedly.

What does it add up to? I think we’re a mature, deep, team who can win contested ball, but deeply flawed with poor disposal, poor defensive structures and less firepower than others. Oh, and a worrying set of KP injuries. That’s unfortunately not the bio of a team ready to make the leap - I think we are Essendon of the last decade unfortunately right now rather than Richmond of 2015.

But I guess there’s a lot to play out, and it’s a step up from the last five years so I’ll take it right now!

Agree with all of your post.

 

[Koutamightafides]

100% agreed some of his handballs to release were awesome

Thought Diesel Williams had made a comeback in the number 2 for a while .

 

[blueblooded]

Had a look at the stats and can’t believe both teams had 76 turnovers
Each .... ours always seem to result
In goals!

thought we were smacked around the footy all night and the defence over committed too much. Doc was poor.

In saying that we scored 99 points without a key forward and Fisher looks insane.

 

[BlackGoanna]

Sadly, I thought we looked quite a way off the pace tonight. St Kilda are a good, but flawed team in the 4-6 range and they comfortably put us away and scored at will, spent a quarter playing around with things a bit, then turned on the jets and belted us for the last 5 minutes.

As always, I feel like there’s small picture wins that mask big picture flaws. Fisher is arguably our best player now, both Saad and Williams added something, and a few others showed bits and bibs. We scored 100pts, our stoppages were good, and our depth is good.

But the big picture is we have too many flaws that limit our ceiling to the 8-12 range.

Our disposal as a team is shocking. Too many mistakes, not just under pressure but just straight poor skills. Good teams don’t cop that. Worst thing is it starts with our leaders and veterans - Cripps, Docherty, Saad, Jones, Plowman - all turn the ball over badly. It’s no surprise the best teams of the last decade were built around leaders like Hodge, Martin, Mitchell whose disposal is excellent.

We also really lack star power. Cripps hasn’t looked the same player under Teague and Docherty is just a shell of what he was. Do we have a single one of the best 50 players in the league on recent form? I’d argue not. We might have 8 players in the next tier and a lot of solid depth, but unless someone makes the leap I just don’t think we can keep pace with the best.

And lastly, our pressure and defensive structures are poor. I know it’s a practice game but there’s a real lack of tackling speed and capacity across the lines, while a defence including Docherty, Jones, Saad and SPS has too many guys who are attack- focused and get pulled out position,, as St Kilda did repeatedly.

What does it add up to? I think we’re a mature, deep, team who can win contested ball, but deeply flawed with poor disposal, poor defensive structures and less firepower than others. Oh, and a worrying set of KP injuries. That’s unfortunately not the bio of a team ready to make the leap - I think we are Essendon of the last decade unfortunately right now rather than Richmond of 2015.

But I guess there’s a lot to play out, and it’s a step up from the last five years so I’ll take it right now!

You must have been a good footballer to be such a cynic


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