Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Keystone agony]

You said we don’t have like for like replacements, I would argue we’ve got basically every position covered at either end but literally nothing in the middle.

Outside the best 22 the depth/understudy picks would probably look something like

B: Hird Brand BZT
HB: Gleeson Reid Durham
C: Cutler
R: Phillips Clarke
HF: Guelfi Hurley Zaharakis
F: Cahill Ambrose Waterman
I: Bryan Johnson Mosquito McBride Baldwin Eyre

Notice how that structures up pretty normal with blends of sizes and shapes but I left the middle blank? Well that’s because I didn’t leave the middle blank, there’s just literally no one else. Pretty bloody dire if you ask me.

Our top 10 pick needs to be a big body mid and it looks like it might work well

I dont mind drafting mids and playing them elsewhere

Our midfield depth is still currently very good. Without Caldwell, Mcgrath, Shiel we're still filling out a midfield group (Parish, Zerrett, Langford, Stringer, N.Cox, Perkins, D.Smith, Ham)

Our absolute Best 22 going into next year right now:
Ridley - J.Stewart - Laverde
Heppell - Francis - Hind (Redman)
N.Cox - Parish - Langford (Perkins)
Snelling - H.Jones - D.Smith (Caldwell)
Tippa - P.Wright - Stringer
Draper - Zerrett - A.Mcgrath (D.Shiel)

 

[Yoda_]

Okay, seriously. Charlie Constable was seen as a slider at pick 36 and was talked as someone who could have been late first round or early second round as late as August of his draft year. Johnson was seen as a late to rookie selection.

Constable was merely an example


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[Yoda_]

You said we don’t have like for like replacements, I would argue we’ve got basically every position covered at either end but literally nothing in the middle.

Outside the best 22 the depth/understudy picks would probably look something like

B: Hird Brand BZT
HB: Gleeson Reid Durham
C: Cutler
R: Phillips Clarke
HF: Guelfi Hurley Zaharakis
F: Cahill Ambrose Waterman
I: Bryan Johnson Mosquito McBride Baldwin Eyre

Notice how that structures up pretty normal with blends of sizes and shapes but I left the middle blank? Well that’s because I didn’t leave the middle blank, there’s just literally no one else. Pretty bloody dire if you ask me.

I feel the point is still being missed. Our ‘depth’ in the midfield was largely through luck and development than good list management.

What if Darcy was still that vanilla 15 - 18 possessions a game, 1 goal a game fwd/mid? We’d be screaming for the next option.

With this latest setback to McGrath, it’s largely going to stretch the depth in the midfield.


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[Bjchan13]

Probable delist/Retire
Zaharakis
Ambrose
Clarke
Cutler
Gleeson

Possible delist/move to rookie list
Johnson
Cahill
Mosquito (we really need him fit and firing to take the pressure off Tippa)

1 year/trade
Guelfi
Zerk-Thatcher

1 year
Phillips
Hooker (if he wants it)

2 years
Laverde
Snelling
Parish (more if he wants)

4 years
Stringer

We currently have a 1st round draft pick and 2 x 3rds. Id go for best available mid with the 1st. Definitely lean towards a bigger body if they are available in the range. Use the 2 x 3rds on some hard running tackle friendly hard nuts that enjoy the defensive side of the game. A decent kick on them as well would be nice but may be asking a bit too much. He gets brought up a lot but Richmond got Jack Graham in the 50s so those players are there in the 3rd round if thats what you're looking for.

Best 26 2022 might look something like

B Hind Stewart Laverde
HB Redman Reid Ridley
C Merrett Caldwell Cox
HF Langford Jones Snelling
F Stringer Hooker/Hurley Tippa
R Draper Parish Shiel
INT McGrath Heppell Francis Wright Smith Perkins Bryan

Quite strong

Depth
Waterman Ham Guelfi Zerk-Thatcher Phillips
3 x 2022 draft picks (mids)

Hooker and Hurls are a bit of an unknown. I think they should rest Hooker every 7 rounds like west coast do with JK. Thats if he wants to go on and can have another pre season like he did this year. Hurls if he can get over the hip will be a different proposition in the forward line compared to Hooker but it will be interesting to see what he can bring and what Trucks plan was before the hip. He is a determined man. I think we are served well by some experience next year as well to help protect Jones. But i think it needs to be Hooker or Hurley. Cant see how both fit into the forward line in the same game from here unfortunately. I say unfortunately because id love nothing more than to see those 2 enjoy some success together.

Then we've obviously got Baldwin, Eyre, Brand and McBride to try and intergrate into some key positions.

Trade/FA
If we do hit the trade table its gotta be smart buys. Picks 50+ sort of thing, to fill a need. Small defender/forward stocks could use some bolstering. Free agents i think we need to wait another year or 2 at least. Id actually like to see us in the finals for a couple of years straight with the group we have before going down that road of landing a big fish.

 

[Zach Package]

I feel the point is still being missed. Our ‘depth’ in the midfield was largely through luck and development than good list management.

What if Darcy was still that vanilla 15 - 18 possessions a game, 1 goal a game fwd/mid? We’d be screaming for the next option.

With this latest setback to McGrath, it’s largely going to stretch the depth in the midfield.


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Sounds like we’re in agreement.

In reality it’s an imbalance that probably corrects pretty easily and quickly when the old guard talls move on as long as we replace them with good old fashioned specialist on ballers.

We definitely have one too many small forward/quasi midfielders, probably one too many medium defenders and one too many true key backs given Hurley/Chook/Ambrose are backs by trade.

One less of each means a couple more mids to develop and one to impact immediately.

 

[Ambrosia]

Obviously you can’t pick someone if you don’t rate anyone available but I’m surprised we didn’t grab a second mid season draft pick given the probable 8-10 list changes we need to make at the end of the year. Don’t want to be stuck giving two year contracts to the tail end of the draft.

 

[Megabattimus]

Obviously you can’t pick someone if you don’t rate anyone available but I’m surprised we didn’t grab a second mid season draft pick given the probable 8-10 list changes we need to make at the end of the year. Don’t want to be stuck giving two year contracts to the tail end of the draft.

We were probably gonna take Callow if he survived to our second pick.

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[Duckworth]

We were probably gonna take Callow if he survived to our second pick.

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If they were interested should have gone for him first. They have overlooked Callow a couple of times now if you include the preseason draft (Baldwin)

 

[Megabattimus]

If they were interested should have gone for him first. They have overlooked Callow a couple of times now if you include the preseason draft (Baldwin)

If we did that we would've missed out on Durham.

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[Bomber1978]

Essendon's Best 22 for 2021 (current list irrespective of injuries)... thoughts?

B	Redman	Francis	Ridley
HB	Hind	Hurley	Heppell
C	McGrath	Shiel	Langford
HF	Caldwell	Jones	Smith
F	Tipungwuti	Hooker	Stringer
Foll	Draper	Merrett	Parish
Int	Laverde	Cox	Perkins	Snelling
Emerg	*Zaharakis (sub)	Wright	Stewart	Ham

 

[eth-dog]

Essendon's Best 22 for 2021 (current list irrespective of injuries)... thoughts?

B	Redman	Francis	Ridley
HB	Hind	Hurley	Heppell
C	McGrath	Shiel	Langford
HF	Caldwell	Jones	Smith
F	Tipungwuti	Hooker	Stringer
Foll	Draper	Merrett	Parish
Int	Laverde	Cox	Perkins	Snelling
Emerg	*Zaharakis (sub)	Wright	Stewart	Ham

Hurley is supposedly playing forward so he's out for Stewart and swap Smith for Wright too IMO

 

[Duckworth]

If we did that we would've missed out on Durham.

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yes, possibly. My point was that they didn't rate him that highly. As they had a few opportunities to take him, but went with Baldwin and Durham instead.

 

[Keystone agony]

In:

M.Johnson (Draft - Top 10 pick)
Riccardi (Trade)
Bytel/Lipinski (Trade)
L.Schulz (Trade 4th Rounder)

Those trades only 30+ draft pick

Out:
L.Johnson
Cahill
Zaharakis
BZT
Cutler

 

[thaibomber]

you gotta love that Hind is out performing Saad (afl website today) brought a smile to my face.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Interesting times going forward.

Hooker - finished
Hurley - finished ( may get another year )
Ambrose - finished ( may go around again bar any more setbacks )
Zaka - finished
Gleeson - done
Cutler - done
Phillips - may get another year as backup until Bryan is ready
Cahill - done
Mosquito - looks he's done and dusted
Clarke - done, may be lucky there's no depth so maybe gets another year.
BZT - done, may get another year as depth but with Reid coming on then will be lucky.
Johnson - hasn't shown anything so may be lucky.
Smith - depth at best.

We could make up to 10 changes if we are bold and brave. If we could add 2 ready made players with a host of kids it's pretty feasible to make a big cull.

 

[bomberman500]

Interesting times going forward.

Hooker - finished
Hurley - finished ( may get another year )
Ambrose - finished ( may go around again bar any more setbacks )
Zaka - finished
Gleeson - done
Cutler - done
Phillips - may get another year as backup until Bryan is ready
Cahill - done
Mosquito - looks he's done and dusted
Clarke - done, may be lucky there's no depth so maybe gets another year.
BZT - done, may get another year as depth but with Reid coming on then will be lucky.
Johnson - hasn't shown anything so may be lucky.
Smith - depth at best.

We could make up to 10 changes if we are bold and brave. If we could add 2 ready made players with a host of kids it's pretty feasible to make a big cull.

Would keep Phillips,

need 3 rucks on a roster and he is serviceable and has done jobs on some of the games better ruckman.
Will be a life in 2s but so if he's fine with that he keeps his spot.

Same with BZT, good depth, break glass in case of emergency player.

Keep Mozzie if he still has the desire

Agree with the rest

 

[Bjchan13]

Interesting times going forward.

Hooker - finished
Hurley - finished ( may get another year )
Ambrose - finished ( may go around again bar any more setbacks )
Zaka - finished
Gleeson - done
Cutler - done
Phillips - may get another year as backup until Bryan is ready
Cahill - done
Mosquito - looks he's done and dusted
Clarke - done, may be lucky there's no depth so maybe gets another year.
BZT - done, may get another year as depth but with Reid coming on then will be lucky.
Johnson - hasn't shown anything so may be lucky.
Smith - depth at best.

We could make up to 10 changes if we are bold and brave. If we could add 2 ready made players with a host of kids it's pretty feasible to make a big cull.

Hurls is contracted for next year

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Interesting times going forward.

Hooker - finished
Hurley - finished ( may get another year )
Ambrose - finished ( may go around again bar any more setbacks )
Zaka - finished
Gleeson - done
Cutler - done
Phillips - may get another year as backup until Bryan is ready
Cahill - done
Mosquito - looks he's done and dusted
Clarke - done, may be lucky there's no depth so maybe gets another year.
BZT - done, may get another year as depth but with Reid coming on then will be lucky.
Johnson - hasn't shown anything so may be lucky.
Smith - depth at best.

We could make up to 10 changes if we are bold and brave. If we could add 2 ready made players with a host of kids it's pretty feasible to make a big cull.

Seems dumb to make ten changes in a single off-season. What's the point of dumping ten players only to replace them with a heap of guys who likely have no business being on an AFL list anyway? Realistically we might snare one good FA and we have one first round pick, the rest of the players we pick up will either be DFAs or late draft picks.

 

[Lore]

Seems dumb to make ten changes in a single off-season. What's the point of dumping ten players only to replace them with a heap of guys who likely have no business being on an AFL list anyway? Realistically we might snare one good FA and we have one first round pick, the rest of the players we pick up will either be DFAs or late draft picks.

Especially if the ten you're dropping are all retiring or being delisted. It's not like you're trading them for another player/picks.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Seems dumb to make ten changes in a single off-season. What's the point of dumping ten players only to replace them with a heap of guys who likely have no business being on an AFL list anyway? Realistically we might snare one good FA and we have one first round pick, the rest of the players we pick up will either be DFAs or late draft picks.

Trouble is we may end up like Carlton - some decent players but not enough depth of quality. Don't get fooled by some of our starting 22 that are just role players.

Point is.. we still have a lot of work to do and a lot of turnover to go in the next year or so. Deep cuts is what we need. Some will get lucky and get that extra year but we need to be a bit ruthless.. there's less point in keeping list cloggers around than having a swing an extra kid or two.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Trouble is we may end up like Carlton - some decent players but not enough depth of quality. Don't get fooled by some of our starting 22 that are just role players.

Point is.. we still have a lot of work to do and a lot of turnover to go in the next year or so. Deep cuts is what we need. Some will get lucky and get that extra year but we need to be a bit ruthless.. there's less point in keeping list cloggers around than having a swing an extra kid or two.

Yeah but my point is you're going to be replacing non-AFL standard players with non-AFL standard players via delisted free agency (ie. the same sort of players that you want to delist in the first place) and late draft picks. I don't see anything coming good of turning over ten players on the list in one off season unless we're going to the draft with 4 or 5 picks in the top 30, it will ultimately end up as a shuffle of fringe players. The bulk of players on the list who you want to cut as list cloggers came to the club through those two avenues.

Need to be smarter about this, otherwise we will end up like Carlton. Loading up on off-cuts did them no good.

 

[Lore]

Yeah but my point is you're going to be replacing non-AFL standard players with non-AFL standard players via delisted free agency (ie. the same sort of players that you want to delist in the first place) and late draft picks. I don't see anything coming good of turning over ten players on the list in one off season unless we're going to the draft with 4 or 5 picks in the top 30, it will ultimately end up as a shuffle of fringe players. The bulk of players on the list who you want to cut as list cloggers came to the club through those two avenues.

Need to be smarter about this, otherwise we will end up like Carlton. Loading up on off-cuts did them no good.

At least the current set of list cloggers know the game plan, right?

And what if we retired Phillips and picked up Zac Clarke :|

 

[Keystone agony]

Interesting times going forward.

Hooker - finished
Hurley - finished ( may get another year )
Ambrose - finished ( may go around again bar any more setbacks )
Zaka - finished
Gleeson - done
Cutler - done
Phillips - may get another year as backup until Bryan is ready
Cahill - done
Mosquito - looks he's done and dusted
Clarke - done, may be lucky there's no depth so maybe gets another year.
BZT - done, may get another year as depth but with Reid coming on then will be lucky.
Johnson - hasn't shown anything so may be lucky.
Smith - depth at best.

We could make up to 10 changes if we are bold and brave. If we could add 2 ready made players with a host of kids it's pretty feasible to make a big cull.

Hurley abd Hooker are getting another year guaranteed unless they dont want to go on.

Phillips is required for another year. You cant enter a season with Draper and Bryan

Alot of those guys D.Clarke, Gleeson are rookies

One of Ambrose/BZT will also be kept. Reid is no where near ready. Theres a decent chance both stay.

Mossie is probably required as a small fwd with our lost depth there. He might go to the rookie list like a few others mentioned

 

[blitzer]

If we keep Hooker and Hurley next year I'd probably consider delisting both of Ambrose and BZT. Ambrose had some good times with us but if he's not an option down back (and it seems like he's not right now - it seems we want to develop a younger group together) I think its time to part ways. Especially when you consider his extensive injury history. BZT just not good enough.

Phillips should stay - perfect depth cover for the ruck. Will play his role in the VFL as required and step up when he's needed. Besides being a bit injury prone I dunno what's wrong with him. Hopefully Bryan overtakes but he'll only be in his 3rd year next year.

Would delist Gleeson and Clarke who I believe are both on the rookie list.

Would delist Mosquito and Johnson. Mosquito never really had the professionalism required and was very injury prone. Johnson has struggled by all accounts in the VFL.

I'd delist Cutler as well. Never got going at Essendon - one of the few players that has continually regressed since coming here.

Unlike 99% on this board - I'd give Zaka another year. Good depth for small forward/half forward/wing and I'm still not overwhelmed by our wing options. Cox is great but he's a 2nd year and may develop into other roles. Ham is a bit of a battler - between his ordinary disposal and his complete inability to win a contested possession I'm not a huge fan. Cutler is terrible. Not sure if Durham is an option on the wing. Langford is good but I like him half forward mostly.

So that would be 5 removed from the main list and 2 from the rookie list I believe. Seems like a reasonable amount of changes without going overboard. Its not like we are loaded up on top picks this year or anything.

 

[owen87]

If we keep Hooker and Hurley next year I'd probably consider delisting both of Ambrose and BZT. Ambrose had some good times with us but if he's not an option down back (and it seems like he's not right now - it seems we want to develop a younger group together) I think its time to part ways. Especially when you consider his extensive injury history. BZT just not good enough.

Phillips should stay - perfect depth cover for the ruck. Will play his role in the VFL as required and step up when he's needed. Besides being a bit injury prone I dunno what's wrong with him. Hopefully Bryan overtakes but he'll only be in his 3rd year next year.

Would delist Gleeson and Clarke who I believe are both on the rookie list.

Would delist Mosquito and Johnson. Mosquito never really had the professionalism required and was very injury prone. Johnson has struggled by all accounts in the VFL.

I'd delist Cutler as well. Never got going at Essendon - one of the few players that has continually regressed since coming here.

Unlike 99% on this board - I'd give Zaka another year. Good depth for small forward/half forward/wing and I'm still not overwhelmed by our wing options. Cox is great but he's a 2nd year and may develop into other roles. Ham is a bit of a battler - between his ordinary disposal and his complete inability to win a contested possession I'm not a huge fan. Cutler is terrible. Not sure if Durham is an option on the wing. Langford is good but I like him half forward mostly.

So that would be 5 removed from the main list and 2 from the rookie list I believe. Seems like a reasonable amount of changes without going overboard. Its not like we are loaded up on top picks this year or anything.

Keep in mind our first this year will almost definitely be a midfielder, which would mean they're playing off a HFF like Perkins is currently doing, putting Zaharakis even further back as depth.