Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Runk]

Delisting/Retiring Hooker is not the dumbest thing I’ve seen in here, but it’s up there. The bloke has been fantastic this year and isn’t holding anyone back.

 

[eth-dog]

either or.
Seems we've thrown all our tall defenders forward
Until Reid & Brand are ready, the key defensive stocks aren't great.

That's why I want Lewis Young. OOC, right age bracket, will be cheap, good intercept mark.

 

[eth-dog]

Delisting/Retiring Hooker is not the dumbest thing I’ve seen in here, but it’s up there. The bloke has been fantastic this year and isn’t holding anyone back.

He can't run or defend anymore. Unless he marks it he's a liability.

 

[citizen-erased]

Delisting/Retiring Hooker is not the dumbest thing I’ve seen in here, but it’s up there. The bloke has been fantastic this year and isn’t holding anyone back.

will be sad to see him go, but i think he's done at end of year.
i do hope he stays around though. Looking back he and Merrett have been my favourite players of the last 10 years.

 

[JayJ20]

Second most points scored behind Dogs.

We were way too reliant on Fantasia and Daniher. In hindsight, having them leave was probably best for both parties. For years, we were telling ourselves everything would be fixed once they came back. Their departure forced us to re-think our approach.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

He can't run or defend anymore. Unless he marks it he's a liability.

I wonder if some people actually watch our games anymore.

 

[eth-dog]

Second most points scored behind Dogs.

We were way too reliant on Fantasia and Daniher. In hindsight, having them leave was probably best for both parties. For years, we were telling ourselves everything would be fixed once they came back. Their departure forced us to re-think our approach.

Also the second most efficient team in converting inside 50's into goals. Dan Jordan has been fantastic this year.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Second most points scored behind Dogs.

We were way too reliant on Fantasia and Daniher. In hindsight, having them leave was probably best for both parties. For years, we were telling ourselves everything would be fixed once they came back. Their departure forced us to re-think our approach.

It's not healthy for any club to rely and plan so heavily on one player... as we did with Daniher. Even worse when he barely played.

It was evident when he first requested the trade to Sydney. We were just so dumbstruck as we were pretty much "our whole list strategy is built around this one bloke, we can't just turn on a dime and trade him this week".

We have a more even spread now in terms of reliance. On top of that, Walla and Hooker (as a forward) are pretty much in career-best form. Jones is growing, Snelling is a terrier, and Wright demands a match-up purely due to his size.

Oh and Stringer goes alright.

 

[Megabattimus]

I really hope we don't force Hooker into retirement. Just put a one year deal in front of him and ask him if he thinks he's got another year in his legs. If he says yes, then re-sign him.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Also the second most efficient team in converting inside 50's into goals. Dan Jordan has been fantastic this year.

Our forward line offensively has been good, defensively it has been poor. Some of our structuring leaving D50 has been questionable at best.

 

[Petrify]

Can I just say I don't think I've seen us kick the ball ontop of Tippa's head in weeks? That's a sign of genuine improvement

 

[Schnitzengruben]

I really hope we don't force Hooker into retirement. Just put a one year deal in front of him and ask him if he thinks he's got another year in his legs. If he says yes, then re-sign him.

Ofc he thinks he's got another year left, at least. Zaka and co would feel the same way. I'd argue nearly every senior player gets 'forced' into retirement one way or another. Goddard would still be playing if it was up to him.

 

[eth-dog]

Our forward line offensively has been good, defensively it has been poor. Some of our structuring leaving D50 has been questionable at best.

It's generally the trade off. The more efficient you are, the easier it is to leave the 50.

 

[Ants]

All over Lewis Young in general.

Not really sure what Bevo's problem is but it's pretty clear Young needs to move on.

Would be a significant upgrade to turn BZT's spot into Young.

Agreed. Him or Jack Payne are the two blokes that I'm all in for. Will allow a more balanced defensive group with Laverde and Francis taking mediums rather than genuine KPP's most weeks.

Why on earth would we be chasing talls when we have Reid, Brand, McBride, Eyre and Baldwin? We made the investment in talls last year, investing more before we know if we got blue chips, duds or whatever is silly. If you want to play short termism with the list, just keep Ambrose.

eth-dog or anyone else, for that matter, do you know anything about Alabakis at St Kilda?

He's probably not needed given the mix of Phillips, Draper and Bryan (Alabakis is the same age as Draper) but I can't help but notice he is still on the rookie list for his 3rd year.

Surely someone offers him a deal to try to take advantage of that rookie list loophole North used to sign Lachie Young from the Dogs last year.

That loophole only exists if a player has been demoted to the rookie list. Wasn't Alabakis drafted onto the rookie list?

 

[Old Campaigner]

Only reason to move Hooker on is to force us to get games into Baldwin and Eyre. That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but it would set our forwardline back while they find their feet.

I'd love to see him play the next couple of years in the VFL. We'll be drafting pretty heavily over the next couple of years and having his experience and leadership on the field while the next generation come into the club will be invaluable.

 

[Ants]

Haven't done one of these in a few weeks so here goes:

3+ years: Darcy Parish, Jake Stringer, Mason Redman
2 years: Jayden Laverde, Harrison Jones, Nick Bryan, Ned Cahill, Will Snelling, Cian McBride
1 year: Martin Gleeson, Patrick Ambrose, Andrew Phillips, Kaine Baldwin, Alec Waterman, Tom Hird, Greg Clark (who I think we take in the MSD)

Delist/retire: David Zaharakis (ret), Tom Cutler, Irving Mosquito, Cale Hooker (ret), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Lachlan Johnson, Dylan Clarke

Trade/FA:

1. Zach Merrett (still think he goes) to whomever, get pick 5/6 back.
2. Matthew Guelfi to Freo/WC (rumours last year that he might go home) for a future 3rd or something, otherwise 2 years
3. George Hewett for a future second round pick (or sign as a FA if Merrett stays)
4. Lewis Young for a future 3rd round pick

Given after the MSD we'll be essentially +2 players for the year that means we have 5 places to fill, all of which can be ND picks I believe.

Pick 5: Josh Sinn (186/72 OM/Utility)
Pick 6: Matthew Johnson (191/80 IM)
Pick ~43: Inside Midfielder
Pick ~50: Small defender
RD 5: Small defender

I think we need to get the midfield and defence right this year. I think a couple of young small defenders will be important, even if Sinn can play as a sort of half back. Willing to wait on getting another small forward with the Davey twins (having no idea where they'll be next year) unless Tex is that sort of player as well.

A few things I disagree with:

• Gleeson is gonski. Having limited impact at VFL level, so far off AFL pace it isn't funny.
• As mentioned in my previous post, no idea why you would chase a tall in Young. Let alone chase him and keep Ambrose.
• Why would McBride get a 2 year deal? Same with Cahill.
• I think by year end Waterman will have earned a two-year deal.
• A bit premature on (a) getting Greg Clark and then (b) giving him a 1 year extension.
• Hopefully we'll take Moore with a late pick
• No way would we trade a future second rounder unless it was a great deal. We will need those points for the Daveys.
• You're currently suggesting taking Clark, Hewett, Johnson and another inside mid. That is waaaayyy overboard on inside mids. Four of them. We've got to fit Caldwell and Shiel back into the midfield mix first. We probably want to take 3 mids between the MSD and ND, but only 1-2 would need to be inside. Personally, I think the higher priority is good ball use.
• George Hewett is a terrible move. Hewett is a (very good) role player, you don't chase them until you're nearer the promised land when you have seen which draftees are doing what, and need to fill holes. That's unlikely to be before 2024 for us. Use the draft picks now on guys who could be guns, and if not might become the role players.
• It looks like we'll have a pick later than #6 the way this season seems to be going. Mid-table mediocrity again.

For me I think it will be:

Out: Hooker, Zerk-Thatcher, Clarke, Gleeson, Cutler, Zaka
In: best midfielder with ND R1 + 2x additional mids (one of the three a pure inside mid), 2 x small/medium defenders and Moore. Split over MSD and ND.

 

[eth-dog]

Why on earth would we be chasing talls when we have Reid, Brand, McBride, Eyre and Baldwin? We made the investment in talls last year, investing more before we know if we got blue chips, duds or whatever is silly. If you want to play short termism with the list, just keep Ambrose.


That loophole only exists if a player has been demoted to the rookie list. Wasn't Alabakis drafted onto the rookie list?

Because we currently have 1 key defender in the seniors, who the jury is still out on in terms of defensive play. Ambrose is injury prone. It's a short to medium term investment that gives us cover if Brand and McBride don't make it.

Incorrect. Lachie Young was drafted to the Dogs as a rookie in 2018: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2018&t=R&s=P

 

[Ants]

Because we currently have 1 key defender in the seniors, who the jury is still out on in terms of defensive play. Ambrose is injury prone. It's a short to medium term investment that gives us cover if Brand and McBride don't make it.

Why on earth would we want short-term filler? We're rebuilding, we shouldn't be putting in make-up players, or covering. Play the kids, get them vital development time. If it means losing games, that means better draft picks. Jones has played a lot of poor games this year, but the games invested in him are already having an effect.

This is the worst time to be getting fillers. Play the kids.

Incorrect. Lachie Young was drafted to the Dogs as a rookie in 2018: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2018&t=R&s=P

Hmm, thanks for the correction on Young. Looked it up, it was because they offered him a third year deal on the rookie list.

 

[Lore]

The rookie loophole;

https://www.aflplayers.com.au/app/uploads/2019/10/FreeAgency_Explained_2019-002.pdf

 

[eth-dog]

Why on earth would we want short-term filler? We're rebuilding, we shouldn't be putting in make-up players, or covering. Play the kids, get them vital development time. If it means losing games, that means better draft picks. Jones has played a lot of poor games this year, but the games invested in him are already having an effect.

This is the worst time to be getting fillers. Play the kids.


Hmm, thanks for the correction on Young. Looked it up, it was because they offered him a third year deal on the rookie list.

He'll be 24 next year. I'm hardly advocating getting a 29 year old with only a couple of years left. He's basically a key defensive version of Peter Wright who is ready made but not in the twilight of his career. Jones has benefitted from having Wright and Hooker beside him.

 

[Yoda_]

I still hold hope we go

2 x inside mid
1 x small forward
1 x rebounding defender
1 x young ruck


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[blitzer]

I still hold hope we go

2 x inside mid
1 x small forward
1 x rebounding defender
1 x young ruck


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That's about right to me. Although I could live with 1 x outside mid and 1 x inside mid if our top pick was the inside mid. But I think those are the positions that we need some more investment into. Key defenders are probably the main position we don't need.
The ruck thing isn't an absolute requirement. If Draper gets fit and we still have Bryan and Phillips on the list with Wright then I don't think we must get a ruck.

 

[eth-dog]

I still hold hope we go

2 x inside mid
1 x small forward
1 x rebounding defender
1 x young ruck


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With the Davey twins next year we don't need that small forward.

 

[Yoda_]

That's about right to me. Although I could live with 1 x outside mid and 1 x inside mid if our top pick was the inside mid. But I think those are the positions that we need some more investment into. Key defenders are probably the main position we don't need.
The ruck thing isn't an absolute requirement. If Draper gets fit and we still have Bryan and Phillips on the list with Wright then I don't think we must get a ruck.

I thought that but was recently reminded that we’ve got Cox, Langford as essentially starting wingers and a number of smaller guys who can roll up there.

The 2 x inside mid is just covering depth etc. we are feeling the pinch at the lower level now without depth. Clarke and Cutler the two main bigger guys are injured.

I’d prefer we take the Daniher approach with Peter Wright and don’t ruck him as our #1. Ideally that young ruck is only a 20% ruck at VFL level anyways.


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[Yoda_]

With the Davey twins next year we don't need that small forward.

And on evidence this year, a lot can change. Tippa is our only natural small crumbing forward. We don’t seem to have faith in Cahil whilst the abundance of others are not that dynamic small forward I’m suggesting. Davey could be but that is 12 months away.. still


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