Autopsy The Phoenix Thread - Where Do We Start? (Rebuild)

[Mop]

Right now we are by some margin the 18th best side in the comp. We’ve had gaps since the Weagles Web era ended but we usually just had McGovern and Sheppard cleaning up and giving it to the JK / JD double act.

Shep’s gone, McGovern is human and JK is in his last year.

Unfortunately I’m struggling to see where we come back any time soon. There’s very little X factor on the sidelines.
Allen is a top tier forward. He’s the only A grader I see us having right now. Ryan borderline.

So.
The rebuild. The word the bigwigs at the club can’t bring themselves to say.

From the smouldering ashes of dogpoo that is the 2022 season (so far),
Who do we have in our seconds that we can build our team around for 5 years from now when realistically we could hope to be competitive again?

I’m talking from who we already have, not trade speculation or draft prospects. Currently within the walls of Mineral Resources Park.

I am struggling.

 

[Balls In]

Start with a new coach

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Coach needs to go, new players coming in need to learn from a fresh voice which will carry on and help the experienced players too. Simmo has lost the players and he'll never get that back.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

New coach.

First time I've said this. Always felt like Simpson had it in him to turn it around, now I don't have any faith he can.

• game plan outdated for years but we've seen no evolution.
• incapable of dropping senior players.
• senior players play like they don't want to be there. Someone nailed it when they posted "this is how you play if you want the coach sacked".I.e. He's lost the players.
• unwilling to admit we need to rebuild.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Shep’s gone, McGovern is human and JK is in his last year.

I don't buy that Kennedy's certainly in his last year.
I mean, he might decide that he doesn't want to go on, which is his prerogative, however, we have been so outclassed in the midfield in every single game we've played that he has made the most of very limited opportunities. He's going at 2.3 goals a game, which is respectable.
Perhaps there's an argument that he's doing less around the ground and, while true, the list of West Coast players putting any gut running or pressure on is basically nil.
I think if he was getting supply he would be churning out excellent goal numbers as he seems to have retained his accuracy.
Will he get an opportunity to do so this year? Hmm, not looking good.
Will this weigh on his decision to keep going next year? Possibly.
I certainly wouldn't be writing him off just yet though especially due to the lethargic level that Darling is currently performing at.

 

[Coasters7]

New coach.

First time I've said this. Always felt like Simpson had it in him to turn it around, now I don't have any faith he can.

• game plan outdated for years but we've seen no evolution.
• incapable of dropping senior players.
• senior players play like they don't want to be there. Someone nailed it when they posted "this is how you play if you want the coach sacked".I.e. He's lost the players.
• unwilling to admit we need to rebuild.

I disagree with the gameplan. There’s evidence that something is there, hence the drubbings. We’re actually trying to move the ball through dangerous areas but lack the skills/touch/fitness to pull any of it off, and then when we inevitably turn it over we can’t keep up back the other way.

I don’t think 109 point losses are gameplan related with premiership players on the park. You’d think even with a shit gameplan, those players could scrounge a few goals and only lose by 50 odd on their worst day. There’s something more at play here because there’s no way the drop off can be this sharp, we’d genuinely struggle against WAFL sides at the moment. We came ninth last year and were premiership fancies for the two years prior to that. Teams don’t just become basketcases in the space of 12 months because of a shoddy gameplan

 

[Mop]

I say JK is gone because I believe that’s what he wants. I read a rumour somewhere or heard somewhere from a dog cousin fish sort of thing that he only played this year due to Darling’s COVID hesitancy.
Take it was a massive grain of salt.
That aside, I reckon this will be it: if it were anyone else I’d expect the fork to go in now.

 

[WCErevival]

I say JK is gone because I believe that’s what he wants. I read a rumour somewhere or heard somewhere from a dog cousin fish sort of thing that he only played this year due to Darling’s COVID hesitancy.
Take it was a massive grain of salt.
That aside, I reckon this will be it: if it were anyone else I’d expect the fork to go in now.

If thats the case maybe he will call it when Allen comes back.

 

[RookiePick]

I prefer to think of us as the #1st worst club tbh.

 

[DirtySandman]

Allen is a top tier forward. He’s the only A grader I see us having right now

Pretty much everyone on the list, has gone backwards the last year or so, Allen might too.

Even if we get the next young Judd Cousins Kerr, hows the poor fella gonna thrive at our club with the way it is right now?

 

[BrotherDodge]

In the best possible world, we'll debut a few midfield guns in 2023 and '24, and their energy and raw talent will complement a veteran core of Kelly, Ryan, Yeo, Rioli, Barrass, Allen and Sheed to make us a surprise top-four side in 2025. Remember how a cooked Kerr and Embley got a second wind with talented kids around them? It could happen! But man, we've got a bleak couple of seasons ahead.

 

[wedgetail]

Out: Nisbett, Simpson

In: Don Pyke as CEO and whoever he selects as head coach

The fish rots from the head, and ours is developing a stink

 

[Schtinker]

Our Midfield has to be the start. For years we've been saying we don't have enough diversity and rotation through the middle. Start by playing the younger guys in the centre. With the older guys if they aren't fit don't play them at senior level. Let them build form and fitness in the WAFL



Unfortunately Speed Kills and that's what burnt us tonight. Bolton and Short ran us ragged in the first half. We need to get rid of the plodders

Midfield of Kelly - Clark - West.
Rotate Kelly, Shuey, Sheed off a forward flank, Yeo and Petrucelle off half back. Give Ryan and Rioli stints at Centre Bouncedowns. Shouldn't be a need for them to spend long stints on the bench. We seem to be overdoing the Sport Science side of things with how many minutes a player should play.

Which brings us to Redden, Cripps, Gaff, Langdon, Jackson Darling and a multitude of others.

 

[Obeanie1]

I disagree with the gameplan. There’s evidence that something is there, hence the drubbings. We’re actually trying to move the ball through dangerous areas but lack the skills/touch/fitness to pull any of it off, and then when we inevitably turn it over we can’t keep up back the other way.

I don’t think 109 point losses are gameplan related with premiership players on the park. You’d think even with a shit gameplan, those players could scrounge a few goals and only lose by 50 odd on their worst day. There’s something more at play here because there’s no way the drop off can be this sharp, we’d genuinely struggle against WAFL sides at the moment. We came ninth last year and were premiership fancies for the two years prior to that. Teams don’t just become basketcases in the space of 12 months because of a shoddy gameplan

Correct.

We are definately handballing more and trying to run the ball out. Looks scrappy but that is to be expected with lack of fitness and continuity on the training track and availability.

Tonight did we not notice we didnt kick long to the right wing every single time. We went left, short and attempted to use the corridor much more.

Hard to successfully change game plans using 42 players in 6 weeks.

Its painfull to watch atm but we are trying to change.

 

[Obeanie1]

Who could be there to seriously contend in 4- 5 years time?

Ryan Williams

Ryan Williams

Age

37

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

Rioli
? Allan ?
Hough Kelly ?
Duggan Barrass ?
Foley Basso Cole

Ruck? Clark, Chesser

Bench ? ? ? ?

Young enough but good enough? Waterman, Winder,......

Thats what we have to build from.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Who could be there to seriously contend in 4- 5 years time?

Ryan Williams Rioli
? Allan ?
Hough Kelly ?
Duggan Barrass ?
Foley Basso Cole

Ruck? Clark, Chesser

Bench ? ? ? ?

Young enough but good enough? Waterman, Winder,......

Thats what we have to build from.

It’s a pretty harrowing list, isn’t it?

There is a lot of work ahead of the drafting and trading teams to fix this mess.

 

[bzparkes]

I don't buy that Kennedy's certainly in his last year.
I mean, he might decide that he doesn't want to go on, which is his prerogative, however, we have been so outclassed in the midfield in every single game we've played that he has made the most of very limited opportunities. He's going at 2.3 goals a game, which is respectable.
Perhaps there's an argument that he's doing less around the ground and, while true, the list of West Coast players putting any gut running or pressure on is basically nil.
I think if he was getting supply he would be churning out excellent goal numbers as he seems to have retained his accuracy.
Will he get an opportunity to do so this year? Hmm, not looking good.
Will this weigh on his decision to keep going next year? Possibly.
I certainly wouldn't be writing him off just yet though especially due to the lethargic level that Darling is currently performing at.

Yes but what's the point of retaining him when we won't be challenging anyway? May as well see where our list is at and give someone else a go in his position to see if they're capable, or worth retaining.

 

[Grahame]

Fact: we’re crap

Action: admit we’re crap and then move on to find a solution.

It’s where we’re at - that’s the reality. Get over it. Grieve? Get angry? Sure. Then say screw this let’s move on and work out what we need to do. Then do it.

Time to show why we are =2 on premierships since ‘87. Time to stand up. Time to create our future.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Yes but what's the point of retaining him when we won't be challenging anyway? May as well see where our list is at and give someone else a go in his position to see if they're capable, or worth retaining.

That's a theory. But if we do that over all lines we'll have less than 20 players left on our list.
There's a number of very senior players (including Darling in the forward line) that are performing far worse than Kennedy.
Allen gets a gig when he's ready to go, but then who else? Jack Williams is years away from taking a spot.

 

[Cuzz09]

Fact: we’re crap

Action: admit we’re crap and then move on to find a solution.

It’s where we’re at - that’s the reality. Get over it. Grieve? Get angry? Sure. Then say screw this let’s move on and work out what we need to do. Then do it.

Time to show why we are =2 on premierships since ‘87. Time to stand up. Time to create our future.

Exactly!

There will be some pain in the short term but we need to see some kind of plan going forward.

 

[bzparkes]

That's a theory. But if we do that over all lines we'll have less than 20 players left on our list.
There's a number of very senior players (including Darling in the forward line) that are performing far worse than Kennedy.
Allen gets a gig when he's ready to go, but then who else? Jack Williams is years away from taking a spot.

He's kicking goals but he's far too slow now and can't chase/tackle any more.

Wonderful player for the club but it's time to move on.

 

[Schtinker]

It’s a pretty harrowing list, isn’t it?

There is a lot of work ahead of the drafting and trading teams to fix this mess.

Do you think they're up to the challenge? Rohan O'brien is both West Coast's list manager and recruiting manager and hasn't managed to draft a decent mid since Sheed in 2013. 2016 he did draft Venables but we never really got to see if he could play as a mid. Not sure who's decision it was to recruit Kelly but we sold our soul to the devil and it doesn't look to have paid off. With the picks we gave for Kelly we could have had Georgiades, Deven Robertson and Jeremy Sharp as well as Jaxon Prior and Riley Garcia. Deep down I think this decision was why Darren Glass left the club. Recently O'Brien has talked about retiring and Nisbett has said the jobs his for as long as he likes. Scary to think that's how Nisbett thinks.

 

[Schtinker]

He's kicking goals but he's far too slow now and can't chase/tackle any more.

Wonderful player for the club but it's time to move on.

Looks too bulky. Guys like the King twins, Himmelberg etc are way leaner.

 

[Cuzz09]

Need to use the 2nd hald of the season to farewell old champions and blood games into guys who will be around in 2-4 years when we transition into a middle table side.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

It's hard to say and i have trepidation because anytime you change coach it is a bit of lottery and, who knows and god forbid, but you could end up with Brendan Bolton or Damian Drum coaching you, but i have lost faith in Simpson. Every post game he sits there looking far too comfortable and talking like a pathologist doing an autopsy on a dead body. As if the cause of the death and decisions leading up to the death of the body on the table are nothing to do with him. As if he doesn't bear responsibility for any of what has hapenned and is just the guy called in to diagnose the cause of death after the fact. As if it is all totally out of his control and he has been called in to clean up a mess made by others. Nor do i hear him at any stage explain what he thinks the path forward is and what he is proposing to do moving forwards. All i hear are cliches ("We have to own it"), effusive and over the top praise of the opposition as if they are so good that nobody in the competition would have come away with a better result than a 100 point thumping and Covid related excuses. If he had a plan or any answers we would have heard it by now and we could decide if it gave us confidence or not. But we aren't hearing anything because he has no plan but to try and muddle through. We need him to go.