Great post
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Opinion Is this rock bottom?
- Thread starter Frank Thring
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chairo
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This is an astonishingly good post with regards our list management - well done! Do you have any thoughts on what is happening with the game plan?
thumping
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Spot on! Great post
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Not sure the club can survive half a decade of shitness Hoju. We will again be given an ultimatum regarding our cash cow that is Tassie soon enough.
Plenty of North people over the years have said, as a club, we can not afford to bottom out.
Will we be able to stand on our own two feet when the time comes on the back of an ongoing, prolonged period at the bottom?
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TennisPlayerAndy
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This year will mark five seasons of no finals.
The equal longest such time since 1973, matching 88-92.
The equal longest such time since 1973, matching 88-92.
We've been hit by a perfect storm:
. Coach resigned
. New coach with baggage
. Struggling new coach
. Budget cuts
. Covid
. Hub
. Injuries
. Young list / poor development
and we haven't coped. Chuck in the uneven playing field, selling games to Tassie. God knows how we've wiped out our debt !
Even my faith is wavering. Do we gut the list again ? Do we open the war chest ? Do we replace the coach ?
Does not matter what we do. Media come for us, members come for us, supporters come for us.
If we don't stand strong our club will disappear. I reckon 85% of other clubs and their fans wouldn't give a $hit.
Afraid l have no answers but have to keep faith with those " inside " the club. I just turn up when l can and invest. It bloody hurts but it's " my club " Only thing keeping me going is other clubs have been just as $hit.
Next 2 weeks will test. esp. v Go Dees on a friggin election day. Lucky game is 4.40 and not 1.10 as the turnout would be dismal.
Think players need to take some responsibility as well. Am l getting everything out of myself to be the best l can ? Everything. Looking at the players we've drafted moreso Jy, LDU, Zurhaar, than those we have bought in.
I don't know. Both frustrating and sad considering the investment we all have in the club like other supporters.
We’re about to find out.
3 years of moderate shitness, followed by 3 years of absolute shitness.
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Given the age profile of our list, current talent level and ability to develop incoming youth, it will be another 5 years before we even look like competing for a spot in finals.
No one in official circles will ever say the rebuild is off course - they will just extend the timeline for things to 'turn around'.
It seems the club has completly mis read the progress of Simpkin, LDU, Zurhar, and Thomas (putting aside injuries). It think this was or is the core group that North thought would impose leadership and carry the club forward this year. It hasn't happened. Question. Is it due to the head coach, the game plan, structure or is it all of the above four players have been initially over rated.
Is the rebuild off course? The main fault is topping up after we ditched senior players at the end of 2016.
What is needed for a rebuild:
- influx of new talent (seems we have that),
- games experience into that new talent (that's progressing where players aren't injured),
- buy in from the team to do a rebuild (we seem to have that).
I hate watching us losing, it's demoralising, but on the other hand I see this once in a generation player (JHF) who is worth the price of admission on his own. This bloke alone will bring the team back to prime time in the not too distant future.
For those of us that got in on the start of the 90s build, what a ride it was. Didn't feel like it in 1992 or pre-season 1993 but when all was said and done we were the team of the 90s.
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with no light in site
blackshadow
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Agreed.
It's getting very tiresome though.
We're totally bereft of on-field leaders bar JHF and that's quite possibly our single biggest glaring issue. I put it above our lack of fitness, holes in our list and coaching.
On-field leadership at North has been sub-par for years but it seems to be at an all time low and I'm buggered if I know how to fix it in the short term other than trading for experienced players that are on-field leaders and drafting kids with leadership skills.
Right now I think we need a thorough review of the whole football department - that includes coaching, selection, development, injury management and list management and recruitment and then act on the findings of a review.
It's going to be a long road.
The second half of last year had me thinking we were on the right track. LDU and Thomas took a step, McKay and Larkey became legit bookends, Phillips showed enough and Powell looked awesome before his season ended early. The list and the game plan was building nicely.
But this year, man, just about everyone and everything has gone backwards. I'm at a point now where I have no faith in the coaching staff or recruiting. We will probably have to clean the slate again. And the list looks in just as bad a shape.
We have 1 A grader (who is recovering from cancer). 2 or 3 potential A graders. Half a dozen wanna-be b graders who are playing like c graders. And the rest are just good ordinary players (or worse) and a handful of kids that haven't been around long enough to pass judgement on.
I think we are another 2 (productive) drafts away from having a decent list.
But this year, man, just about everyone and everything has gone backwards. I'm at a point now where I have no faith in the coaching staff or recruiting. We will probably have to clean the slate again. And the list looks in just as bad a shape.
We have 1 A grader (who is recovering from cancer). 2 or 3 potential A graders. Half a dozen wanna-be b graders who are playing like c graders. And the rest are just good ordinary players (or worse) and a handful of kids that haven't been around long enough to pass judgement on.
I think we are another 2 (productive) drafts away from having a decent list.
Event Horizon
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Things can change quickly and the current list can begin to look very different under the right coach. Just look at the Bulldogs under McCartney vs Bevo.
Covered pretty well here.
The main issue is our senior players are not good enough, or not performing at a standard. The one that is good enough is out for the near future.
We were compared to Adelaide and Hawthorn in the beginning of the year, they are playing much better footy not because their youth is better than ours, but their senior players perform and are much better than what we have.
I don't want to see JZ anywhere near the backline again though, and Goldy is still miles ahead of any ruckman on our list, I also don't think CCJ or Xerri will will ever contest hitouts as well as Goldy is even at this present moment. If Goldy could actually take an overhead contested mark then the two ruck issue wouldnt be an issue t all.
At the end of the year we need to target players with some experience in the right age bracket, we kind of tried doing this with Greenwood, personally i thought he was better than what he is showing, he might actually be slower than Cunners, just without the elite skills and smarts.
One other thing that concerns me is that many of our players are too small, WP, Jye, Jed, etc....
Or can change quickly under the same coach, just look at Hardwick and Goodwin.
We should always review if the current employees are the right fit for the team, but we shouldn't be doing the equivalent of ending your marriage cause you think you saw your soulmate in a bar on the weekend.
A year like this made the Dees, they went from finals to bottom 2, added Jackson, and Pickett and then premiers. It doesn't mean this is our current projection but the point is that the path of a rebuild isn't always a linear improvement. I'm sure if we looked at GoDees BF site during that year, we would find a copy of all the posts we are seeing right now.
A few things that probably need to be looked at include...
Leadership
List gaps
Selection decisions
Players out of position
Strength } Fitness
Endurance }
Development
Commitment } Buy-in / Belief
Concentration }
Age / Experience ratio out of whack
Skill level
Game plan
VFL team not pushing for AFL selection
High turnover (players / coaches)
Poor media coverage and perception
Match schedule (interstate vs. home etc.)
Shadow of relocation still looms
I might have described a few things differently to how others would but I think the points are fair - at least to encourage healthy discussion.
Footy can be an up and down game and sometimes a lot of problems can be dealt with by a small combination of solutions. Mostly however, there has to be a paradigm shift to achieve the desired change - the club can't continue as it is, even acknowledging that on-field performances might decline and then expect improvement to occur organically.
In the past, that was achieved by changing the coach. I was close to some inner sanctum people when Schimma was replaced, and even though it was with Pagan, there were people who were devistated by a club champion being sacked as coach. But that brought about a colossal change in on-field performances.
Perhaps it isn't the coach this time, perhaps it is. That's a tough call, but a bunch of things need to change for North to deliver a successful rebuild. It just doesn't happen because a team bottoms out, gets a couple of good picks then takes a turn back at the top.
Leadership
List gaps
Selection decisions
Players out of position
Strength } Fitness
Endurance }
Development
Commitment } Buy-in / Belief
Concentration }
Age / Experience ratio out of whack
Skill level
Game plan
VFL team not pushing for AFL selection
High turnover (players / coaches)
Poor media coverage and perception
Match schedule (interstate vs. home etc.)
Shadow of relocation still looms
I might have described a few things differently to how others would but I think the points are fair - at least to encourage healthy discussion.
Footy can be an up and down game and sometimes a lot of problems can be dealt with by a small combination of solutions. Mostly however, there has to be a paradigm shift to achieve the desired change - the club can't continue as it is, even acknowledging that on-field performances might decline and then expect improvement to occur organically.
In the past, that was achieved by changing the coach. I was close to some inner sanctum people when Schimma was replaced, and even though it was with Pagan, there were people who were devistated by a club champion being sacked as coach. But that brought about a colossal change in on-field performances.
Perhaps it isn't the coach this time, perhaps it is. That's a tough call, but a bunch of things need to change for North to deliver a successful rebuild. It just doesn't happen because a team bottoms out, gets a couple of good picks then takes a turn back at the top.
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You can also retool the list with decent seniors to strengthen the structure and let kids develop with slightly less heat.
We cut too deep imo (I've posted that I would've kept Brown, Higgins, Tarrant and possibly Daw) but it is what it is. People may even point to how those guys have gone elsewhere but that doesn't negate the roles I think they would've played with us.
But now we find ourselves in the Melbourne phase where had to bring back in senior guys like Cross to redress the imbalance.
If Noble stays I think we need to find some B grade players in these spots to allow the side to be competitive enough to actually build properly: goalkicking small forward, inside mid, key back, key forward.
Hugh Greenwood covers the above mature inside mid role IF he starts actually providing the cover and depth we hoped he would. Right now he's playing like another kid lost in the woods.
People overlook that successful clubs are actually the best rebuilders. It's much easier to develop players in a side that presents most weeks than strip it all back to nothing and get thumped by 10 goals week after week.
Even look at us under Pagan - you might not see him as a great developer of youth while senior coach yet between the flags there were drafted developed kids like Welsh, Simpson, Harvey, Pickett, Mooney, Motlop etc all taking up spots.
We laughed at other sides stripping back to ground zero and playing all the kids on the way to football Nirvana until we tried it ourselves.
Unlike port power. Apparently, they will NEVER do that.Eagles tearing themselves apart
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We obviously have very different opinions about this.
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I think its more to do with on field leaders not knowing how to lead the side out of a hole. Not having the right sort of mentality. Its not something we did under Brad and our older players all developed under him. Cunners probably has that sort of mentality. But he grew up on a dairy farm in some of the coldest, wettest dairy country in the country. So he was well trained by life to deal with hard situations.
Someone like Hodge was at Brisbane ... we need that now. Hard, experienced leader with an edge. An older player from Richmond or maybe West Coast is about the limit of it right now. Dunno where we get that sort of indomitable attitude from. Maybe JHF will be enough.
Right now I think we need a thorough review of the whole football department - that includes coaching, selection, development, injury management and list management and recruitment and then act on the findings of a review.
Didn't we do this? At the end of 2020 or 2019?
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We are on the right track.
Cunners out has killed us; Phillips, LDU, Anderson, Thomas, Zurhaar, Comben, Hall, Powell and McKay all missed heaps of Footy. We were shit to begin with and have lost our most important players, what do people expect?
In conjunction with idiotic missed opportunities and mistakes, we are where We are. But IMO we shave some players who are improving.
We’ve found 3 players in Perez, CCJ and Curtis. CCJ seems like a decent prospect, but as many have suggested until we get fit enough, we’re going to get smacked pretty badly.
Remember Neeld’s Melbourne could stack the backline and park the bus to stop them being done by 200.
We are miles ahead of that, decimated, but our holes are clear, the type of players we need to continue to attract, obvious, so I’m confident in the list changes and the talent we have through the midfield.
Coaching-wise, who knows, we can worry about that in 18 months.
Cunners out has killed us; Phillips, LDU, Anderson, Thomas, Zurhaar, Comben, Hall, Powell and McKay all missed heaps of Footy. We were shit to begin with and have lost our most important players, what do people expect?
In conjunction with idiotic missed opportunities and mistakes, we are where We are. But IMO we shave some players who are improving.
We’ve found 3 players in Perez, CCJ and Curtis. CCJ seems like a decent prospect, but as many have suggested until we get fit enough, we’re going to get smacked pretty badly.
Remember Neeld’s Melbourne could stack the backline and park the bus to stop them being done by 200.
We are miles ahead of that, decimated, but our holes are clear, the type of players we need to continue to attract, obvious, so I’m confident in the list changes and the talent we have through the midfield.
Coaching-wise, who knows, we can worry about that in 18 months.
