Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Lace Out]

Thought Footy Classified ended years ago

 

[mighty_lions]

Thought Footy Classified ended years ago

what's with the Eddie McGuire/footy classified hate, there's 2 shows every week which rates reasonably well for a footy show on a network with no footy

 

[Hollow Knight]

what's with the Eddie McGuire/footy classified hate, there's 2 shows every week which rates reasonably well for a footy show on a network with no footy

I don't think anyone needs to hear any more from Eddie McGuire on the topic of racism in football.

 

[Brett C]

Were you busy today doing your job Brett C? I was.

If someone e-mailed me at 7am I wouldn't have looked at till 6pm.

A few people called me today, if their name wasn't on my phone as a contact they were ignored.

Maybe re read my post or perhaps you’ve replied to the wrong person.

 

[McIvor]

Its tough framing this question and in no way does it minimise the real issue here - being the indigenous families - but what I am struggling to understand from a football perspective only - is what is the fall out for Hawthorn the very club at the heart of this?

Both Brisbane and North look likely to lose their senior coaches at this very late stage to each clubs severe detriments. Hard to take as a selfish supporter of a club that really has nothing to do with this as is North, but it feels to me, that both Brisbane and North will be the ones that suffer the most - yet HAwthorn is laregly untouched. Seems really unfair (and i post this solely from a footy POV and not the player or families of those 3 yojng Hawks players).

 

[Tom14]

24 hours is very standard time period offered for comment on stories. Nothing unusual about that - if you want to criticise the practice of the media then that is fine, but this is not unique to this story.

 

[CarterS]

those generic email addresses you get from the Contacts section of lions.com.au, I would be surprised if anyone even reads them. Imagine you are a low level customer service person and get that Email. How many levels of management will it have to get through before it gets to Fagans Desk. Then contacting lawyers and replying, as there was no way that was ever going to happen within a week let alone a day.

 

[Lace Out]

Its tough framing this question and in no way does it minimise the real issue here - being the indigenous families - but what I am struggling to understand from a football perspective only - is what is the fall out for Hawthorn the very club at the heart of this?

Both Brisbane and North look likely to lose their senior coaches at this very late stage to each clubs severe detriments. Hard to take as a selfish supporter of a club that really has nothing to do with this as is North, but it feels to me, that both Brisbane and North will be the ones that suffer the most - yet HAwthorn is laregly untouched. Seems really unfair (and i post this solely from a footy POV and not the player or families of those 3 yojng Hawks players).

Unsafe work environment? Punishment could be worse than what the Bombers copped

 

[mighty_lions]

I don't think anyone needs to hear any more from Eddie McGuire on the topic of racism in football.

You don’t have to, don’t watch his show then


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[McIvor]

Unsafe work environment? Punishment could be worse than what the Bombers copped

As in draft sanctions?

Its not like fines are really that irrelevant if the afl underwrites the comp, so what else is left aside from draft sanctions does the afl have to punish a club?

 

[BangyBangy]

Maybe re read my post or perhaps you’ve replied to the wrong person.

Nah, I was halfway through responding to the same post you were, only read the first line of your post, agreed with it, thought I'd bring you along for the ride.

Sorry.

Lazy Journalism.

 

[Tom14]

those generic email addresses you get from the Contacts section of lions.com.au, I would be surprised if anyone even reads them.

Did you not read the tweet posted earlier in the thread. which says it went to Fagan's lions email address, and he called his phone and left a message?




This isn't some football journalist hack who dresses up bigfooty trade rumours as news. I'm sure no journalist is perfect but Russell Jackson has reported on some very very serious stories and allegations such as sexual abuse associated with a Western Bulldogs staff member in the 1980s and in junior australian cricket representative teams amongst other issues. Each article was thorough, accurate and damning.

The nature of these allegations is such that the story wouldn't be allowed to publication by the ABC without sufficient opportunity to comment. This is different from the claim that Clarkson and Fagan weren't given an opportunity to respond to the allegations in the Hawthorn external review - clearly that didn't happen as when they emerged the issue got handed over to the AFL for full investigation.

 

[Brett C]

Nah, I was halfway through responding to the same post you were, only read the first line of your post, agreed with it, thought I'd bring you along for the ride.

Sorry.

Lazy Journalism.

All good, I was wondering when I was on the same page

 

[McIvor]

HAving heard the likes of Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell and Burgoyne speak today, would I be naive in saying that I find it odd that these ex-Hawks are completely distancing themselves from all of this and saying they had no knowldege of this which I admit I find it hard to believe that such massive allegations didnt find its way to one, some or if not all of these players and b/c they did nothing they are all claiming ignorance - perhaps that is a long bow to draw - but I feel like I can't buy that players dont hear about this

 

[lioninthesand]

Sad I can give this post only one like

Sounds pretty cultish when you put it that way, kudos.

Yeah and the scary thing is - it’s so ingrained and systemic, those that do it, believe they are saving the subject. They are ‘giving them what we have’, ‘saving them from their past’, ‘ensuring they succeed’.

I’m not speaking about Fages or Clarko directly here, just using this allegation as an example of how it can unfold.

Also, this sort of intervention and action would proably be inflicted on the draftee who wasn’t making the cut, they might have felt compelled to step in and fix things and blinker them to improve performance. That’s why it appears to be three lesser known players.

There’s a reason Brad Hill and Shaun Burgoyne probably never experienced this, they didn’t need fixing or where performing well enough that them having a girl friend or family connection wasn’t a threat to their output.

 

[nup]

Did you not read the tweet posted earlier in the thread. which says it went to Fagan's lions email address, and he called his phone and left a message?




This isn't some football journalist hack who dresses up bigfooty trade rumours as news. I'm sure no journalist is perfect but Russell Jackson has reported on some very very serious stories and allegations such as sexual abuse associated with a Western Bulldogs staff member in the 1980s and in junior australian cricket representative teams amongst other issues. Each article was thorough, accurate and damning.

The nature of these allegations is such that the story wouldn't be allowed to publication by the ABC without sufficient opportunity to comment. This is different from the claim that Clarkson and Fagan weren't given an opportunity to respond to the allegations in the Hawthorn external review - clearly that didn't happen as when they emerged the issue got handed over to the AFL for full investigation.

It was handed over to the AFL before the ABC article

AFL rocked amid calls Clarkson, Fagan ‘must go’ if ‘disturbing’ Hawks claims found to be true

AFL rocked amid calls Clarkson, Fagan ‘must go’ if ‘disturbing’ Hawks claims found to be true

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[McIvor]

Did you not read the tweet posted earlier in the thread. which says it went to Fagan's lions email address, and he called his phone and left a message?




This isn't some football journalist hack who dresses up bigfooty trade rumours as news. I'm sure no journalist is perfect but Russell Jackson has reported on some very very serious stories and allegations such as sexual abuse associated with a Western Bulldogs staff member in the 1980s and in junior australian cricket representative teams amongst other issues. Each article was thorough, accurate and damning.

The nature of these allegations is such that the story wouldn't be allowed to publication by the ABC without sufficient opportunity to comment. This is different from the claim that Clarkson and Fagan weren't given an opportunity to respond to the allegations in the Hawthorn external review - clearly that didn't happen as when they emerged the issue got handed over to the AFL for full investigation.

In Fagan's defence and I am sure I am not alone- but I go 2-3 days without seeing all emails and the same with voicemails - I usually dial into my voicemails only 1-2 per week and Im less likely to dial into it if it is a number i dont know.

Perhaps Im being to defensive of Fagan but I dont see how 24 hours notice is remotely reasonable notice - not even close if you ask me.

 

[BangyBangy]

24 hours is very standard time period offered for comment on stories. Nothing unusual about that - if you want to criticise the practice of the media then that is fine, but this is not unique to this story.

Not all stories are the same though.

This isn't a cat got stuck up a tree. This is serious.

Doesn't seem like the ABC truly wanted an alternate narrative to their story.

Did they want to allow sufficient time to gather information from both sides or did they want to run with their version?

We've been working on this story for weeks, but sorry, you didn't get back to us within the working day, we'll run with what we've got.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You don’t have to, don’t watch his show then

I didn't. I am also entitled to criticise their choice of commentators. If fact, you asked.

 

[Tom14]

Not all stories are the same though.

This isn't a cat got stuck up a tree. This is serious.

Doesn't seem like the ABC truly wanted an alternate narrative to their story.

Did they want to allow sufficient time to gather information from both sides or did they want to run with their version?

We've been working on this story for weeks, but sorry, you didn't get back to us within the working day, we'll run with what we've got.

There's several reasons to put a limit on it - part of doing these kind of sensitive interviews is often a commitment to the source to actually present the story. As indicated in the tweet too, an offer was made by voicemail for more time to respond. Maybe fagan didn't see the email and didn't hear the voicemail - we'll never know.

Regardless I just don't get playing the journalist in this case. If Fagan wasn't involved then he'll have an opportunity to speak to the AFL external review into the issue and clear his name. I see no reason why this journalist would be making this up and focusing on this element is kind of a sideshow.

 

[Antman78]

In Fagan's defence and I am sure I am not alone- but I go 2-3 days without seeing all emails and the same with voicemails - I usually dial into my voicemails only 1-2 per week and Im less likely to dial into it if it is a number i dont know.

Perhaps Im being to defensive of Fagan but I dont see how 24 hours notice is remotely reasonable notice - not even close if you ask me.

Was thinking the same, no caller ID no answer from me. I'll also add that if Fagan was emailed what did contain exactly, did he highlight what was implied by his " investigation" perhaps as far as Fagan though there was no cause to answer...hence Blindsided comment.

 

[lioninthesand]

HAving heard the likes of Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell and Burgoyne speak today, would I be naive in saying that I find it odd that these ex-Hawks are completely distancing themselves from all of this and saying they had no knowldege of this which I admit I find it hard to believe that such massive allegations didnt find its way to one, some or if not all of these players and b/c they did nothing they are all claiming ignorance - perhaps that is a long bow to draw - but I feel like I can't buy that players dont hear about this

I thought the responses where all about distancing themselves, but there was no personal defences of Clarkson or Fagan - they didn’t say ‘I just cannot see those guys ever doing that, it’s not within their personality’.

They said stuff like ‘we arnt privy to those conversations’, ‘it’s distressing to hear senior figures did this’, ‘us players arnt involved at that level’ etc

I’m not jumping to conclusions, but if you were truely shocked or were 100% confident your long time friend and mentor (Clarkson) didn’t have it in him or it was totally unimaginable to you he would do that, I reckon you’d say it, even whilst being respectful and giving credence to the victims.

I thought the initial defence of Clarko from his close friends and explayers left a lot to be desired.

Of coarse it might just be they have been advised not to defend him, but I dunno, especially hodge. Reckon they might feel there is potentially stuff the need to get a million miles away from.

 

[Brett C]

HAving heard the likes of Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell and Burgoyne speak today, would I be naive in saying that I find it odd that these ex-Hawks are completely distancing themselves from all of this and saying they had no knowldege of this which I admit I find it hard to believe that such massive allegations didnt find its way to one, some or if not all of these players and b/c they did nothing they are all claiming ignorance - perhaps that is a long bow to draw - but I feel like I can't buy that players dont hear about this

Could the truth be that the allegations aren’t true or are we only allowed to blindly believe the players making the allegations?

 

[rye]

i think the abc is perfectly entitled to run a story dedicated to airing just the stories of the victims. believe all victims means we should listen to their accounts and respect what they have to say without a counter narrative having to be alongside it at the time

by the same token, we should acknowledge that believing victims means taking their claims seriously and investigating them thoroughly. it doesnt mean we have to jump to hasty conclusions on the alleged perpetrators within less than 24 hours of the story breaking

 

[mighty_lions]

I didn't. I am also entitled to criticise their choice of commentators. If fact, you asked.

You said that people don’t want to hear Eddie’s opinion on racism, my point is clear don’t watch his show, also one poster said he shouldn’t be allowed a platform, it’s his show he can do what he wants, if people don’t like it then don’t watch it


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