Did Carlton made the right decision choosing Voss over Ross?

[WillHayward]

I feel like the Ross to Carlton move was complicated by Stephen Silvagni.

Silvagni is very good mates with Ross and Carlton and Silvagni were in the midst of a bitter divorce.

So probably misgivings and awkwardness on both sides.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think Voss is the right coach for Carlton. Smart and has a game plan within the limited and uneven abilities of his list.

The relationship between SOS and Lyon would have been diabolical at Carlton. SOS proved a disaster with his recruiting and trading and left the list in a lopsided shape. 8-10 very good players trying to cover 12-14 average or worse players Some of whom have been on big cash.Almost all of those are legacies of the SOS years.

Voss did exceptionally well last year to have Carlton so close to the 8. Will back it up this year and go close.

Carlton has got better in the drafting dept with a couple of kids already making their mark. That is the key for them going forward. That and judicious trades of solid citizens like Hewett and Acres who don’t break the bank.

I expect a massive purge at the end of the season of fellas who have been over rated, tried many times and invariably found wanting.

 

[projectv]

I think Voss is the right coach for Carlton. Smart and has a game plan within the limited and uneven abilities of his list.

The relationship between SOS and Lyon would have been diabolical at Carlton. SOS proved a disaster with his recruiting and trading and left the list in a lopsided shape. 8-10 very good players trying to cover 12-14 average or worse players Some of whom have been on big cash.Almost all of those are legacies of the SOS years.

Voss did exceptionally well last year to have Carlton so close to the 8. Will back it up this year and go close.

Carlton has got better in the drafting dept with a couple of kids already making their mark. That is the key for them going forward. That and judicious trades of solid citizens like Hewett and Acres who don’t break the bank.

I expect a massive purge at the end of the season of fellas who have been over rated, tried many times and invariably found wanting.

???

You know that SOS is the list manager at St Kilda right now, right?

He joined us in January.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

???

You know that SOS is the list manager at St Kilda right now, right?

He joined us in January.

yes. I doubt it will end well.

 

[projectv]

yes. I doubt it will end well.

And yet he's brought across Stocker and Caminiti for nothing and both are doing well.

So the jury is out on that one, I guess.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

And yet he's brought across Stocker and Caminiti for nothing and both are doing well.

So the jury is out on that one, I guess.

yep we will see.. good luck to him and you folk

 

[adammania9]

They have a top 4 list

This just cannot continue to be trotted out. They lined up yesterday with
Pittonet
Kennedy
Silvagni
Ed Curnow
Fisher
O’Brien
Durdin
McGovern

Their VFL depth is led by the likes of Dow, Fogarty, Plowman who have been not good enough for years.

 

[GeTrain]

I think they did.
Ross has a terrible style which really discourages people from enjoying the game. Defensive minded, slow monotonous approach. And while he gets teams into contention, it's the same old story against teams who can both defend well and score 100 points from week to week.

just say you haven't watched the Saints this year. So far this season the saints are one of the best ball movement teams and are strong at scoring from turnover. The reason they're not giving up any scores is because they run incredibly hard to get back and help defensive. Saints are middle of the pack for Points for despite not having a forward line for the first 5 weeks

 

[projectv]

I think they did.
Ross has a terrible style which really discourages people from enjoying the game. Defensive minded, slow monotonous approach. And while he gets teams into contention, it's the same old story against teams who can both defend well and score 100 points from week to week.

You've still not watched any of our games this season huh.

It's very defensive minded to be sure, but to say we're slow and monotonous is hilarious.

There were times in the game yesterday where Carltons own fans were booing them for playing tiki-taka across half-back, with the game still in the balance.

And yet you think they made the right call choosing Voss. Ok then.

 

[JyeDye]

You've still not watched any of our games this season huh.

It's very defensive minded to be sure, but to say we're slow and monotonous is hilarious.

There were times in the game yesterday where Carltons own fans were booing them for playing tiki-taka across half-back.

And yet you think they made the right call choosing Voss. Ok then.

I don't know if Ross would be any different to be honest. I don't like the way we play, but I get it. Our team is slow and doesn't have the kicking skills to play the fast paced momentum style that seems to be the way to go in 2023. You give us Hill, Sinclair and Wood running on the outside instead of the plodders we have and we wouldn't be chipping it around. The coach can only plan around the attributes the list has. I do think our defensive structure needs work, but even that has a lot to do with how slow everyone is getting carved up through the middle.

 

[Plugger35]

I think they did.
Ross has a terrible style which really discourages people from enjoying the game. Defensive minded, slow monotonous approach. And while he gets teams into contention, it's the same old story against teams who can both defend well and score 100 points from week to week.

Saints supporters have been enjoying our games this year and it's not just because we have won most of them, it's also that we are playing a good style to watch with fast direct ball movement.

Opposition teams might not score much against us but we have been scoring OK ourselves, in our wins we have scored 10 goals against Freo, 14 goals against the Bulldogs, 14 goals against Essendon, 17 goals against Gold Coast and 12 goals against Carlton which is more than acceptable especially when we have been missing King for all of those games and Membrey for all but one of them.

Did Ross even want the Carlton job?

I'm not sure he really wanted either the Carlton or Essendon jobs, if he did he probably would have gone through the process required to get them.

Another important factor is that everyone at St Kilda from the president down was behind Ross being appointed as our coach and there wasn't that total support at either Carlton or Essendon for him being appointed as their coach which I think frightened him off from applying for those jobs.

I also get the feeling Ross likes the challenge of coaching smaller less successful clubs like St Kilda and Freo rather than the big successful clubs and he has even said himself he considers himself a St Kilda person who has a soft spot for the club.

 

[projectv]

I don't know if Ross would be any different to be honest. I don't like the way we play, but I get it. Our team is slow and doesn't have the kicking skills to play the fast paced momentum style that seems to be the way to go in 2023. You give us Hill, Sinclair and Wood running on the outside instead of the plodders we have and we wouldn't be chipping it around. The coach can only plan around the attributes the list has. I do think our defensive structure needs work, but even that has a lot to do with how slow everyone is getting carved up through the middle.

Well we may never know how Ross Lyon would have gone at Carlton, but it's not like our list has just magically gotten better over one preseason. We had a team of downhill skiiers that would switch off for three quarters of every game and would sometimes decide to play attacking football for 15 minutes every now and then.

Now we seem to be focusing on pace and endurance as well as playing to a structure that stifles the opposition, creating real and imagined pressure. That's all coaching.

 

[My Tilly]

You've still not watched any of our games this season huh.

It's very defensive minded to be sure, but to say we're slow and monotonous is hilarious.

There were times in the game yesterday where Carltons own fans were booing them for playing tiki-taka across half-back, with the game still in the balance.

And yet you think they made the right call choosing Voss. Ok then.

I think Carlton make finals and win a game and it's been deemed a successful season.

Meanwhile, your supporters are carrying on and bumping old threads when you forget about how you started the season last year.

Carlton's outs are much more important than St Kilda's. All but King.
So no, I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
They are currently in the eight and they will have improvement to come.
I don't see St Kilda improving. This is your best football.

 

[Ambrosia]

And yet he's brought across Stocker and Caminiti for nothing and both are doing well.

So the jury is out on that one, I guess.

Outside of 2015 SOS’s use of first round draft picks has been very poor.

 

[god_of_the_universe]

Yeah I kinda got the impression he didn't, process or not.

Said at the time not all that surprsing, if I was a career coach I wouldn't touch us with a 10 ft pole. Seemed like I got it wrong early doors last year but normal service has apparently resumed.

Not sure Carlton supporters should be so harsh on themselves.

There are absolute guns in the team that a highly competent coach could build a premiership team around. There's a reason Carlton had such a good first half to last season.

Not sure Voss has the ability to do that against the best coaches in the business though.

 

[gungho]

I guess the difference between them is Ross is a proven coach and Voss is not (yet anyway).
It looks to me that Ross has taken time away from the game and evolved a little bit (at least with playing style). He seems to be delivering a far more attacking game than he did with his previous stints as senior coach. Personally, I think Carlton are underperforming. They have a great spine and midfield. The difference in game style between them and St Kilda was pretty stark. With Carlton seemingly always content on setting up play with short kicks in defence. It's an old style that won't win too many games and gives teams too long to flood back in defence.

 

[bourbons]

I guess the difference between them is Ross is a proven coach and Voss is not (yet anyway).

Malthouse was a proven coach too.

 

[gungho]

Malthouse was a proven coach too.

True. Sometimes proven coaches are not the way to go either. I guess you have to take a punt on a new senior coach - to see what they've got. It's not an exact science, and some (like Hardwick and Goodwin) evolve and learn enough on the job to create success. Being a champion player doesn't always translate to being a champion coach unfortunately, and if they are given a few seasons and the side is still not improving then sometimes they are just not meant to be senior AFL coaches.
I hope Voss can learn and adapt but at this stage he seems to lack the tactical nous and game plan of a really good coach. (Same can be said for Longmuir unfortunately).

 

[Plugger35]

I think Carlton make finals and win a game and it's been deemed a successful season.

Meanwhile, your supporters are carrying on and bumping old threads when you forget about how you started the season last year.

Carlton's outs are much more important than St Kilda's. All but King.
So no, I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
They are currently in the eight and they will have improvement to come.
I don't see St Kilda improving. This is your best football.

You don't see us improving when King returns when he is arguably the best young key forward in the game? Strange take.

The likes of Billings, Jones, Coffield, Hayes and McKenzie could all improve us too although not as significantly as King will.

 

[Toump Ass]

The other thing I would add though is that Voss looked like a millionaire last year

I'd be surprised if he isn't a millionaire.

Looking like a pretty average coach though. "Kiss on the d" fixture from AFL, a suspension to the soon-to-be Brownlow Medalist overturned for two crucial games, the coleman medalist, the previous years coleman medalist, and still botched finals. That's garbage, anyway you look at it.

 

[LordLucifer]

This just cannot continue to be trotted out. They lined up yesterday with
Pittonet
Kennedy
Silvagni
Ed Curnow
Fisher
O’Brien
Durdin
McGovern

Their VFL depth is led by the likes of Dow, Fogarty, Plowman who have been not good enough for years.

THE CREAM
Adam Cerra
Harry McKay
Patty Cripps
Oliver Hollands
Sam Docherty
Sam Walsh
Jacob Weitering
Nic Newman
Lachlan Cowan
George Hewett
Charlie Curnow
Lewis Young
Adam Saad

THE BACK-UP
Jack Silvagni
Zac Williams
Mathew Kennedy
Blake Acres
Marc Pittonet
Mathew Cottrell
Alex Cincotta

NEEDS MORE TIME
Jesse Motlop
Corey Durdin
Alex Mirkov

TIME IS RUNNING OUT
Tom De Koning
Jack Carroll
Brodie Kemp
Sam Philp
Mathew Owies
Jordan Boyd
Zac Fisher

TIME HAS RUN OUT
Paddy Dow
Lochie O'Brien
Lachie Fogarty
Mitch McGovern
Lachie Plowman
Jack Martin
Caleb Marchbank
David Cuningham
Ed Curnow
Sam Durdin
Dominic Akuei
Josh Honey

TOO EARLY TO SAY
Harry Lemmey
Jaxon Binns
Hudson O'Keefe

 

[Noidnadroj]

Webster Coffield Billings King all best 22

Best-22 is a wasted stat really. In majority of lists, after player 15 or so it’s really a case of ‘throw a blanket’ over players 16-26, depending on form, fitness, the role they are playing, team balance etc..

So it really should be more “How many bonafide ‘walk up starts’ - guys that play seniors no matter what when available, are missing?

Coffield and Billings are not locked in the side no matter what. Webster is borderline. King definitely yes.

Missing players 16-22 doesn’t hurt you too badly. Missing lots of ‘walk up starts’ does.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[aussierulesrules]

Is this a rhetorical question?

 

[aussierulesrules]

I don't see St Kilda improving. This is your best football.

Laughable. Not only is Max one of the biggest weapons in our team, almost certainly the biggest, but the guy he’ll be replacing (Cordy) is the clear “weak link” in the team at the moment, so he’ll be an enormous upgrade.

And Max would be absolutely licking his chops at the prospect of playing in this team that is moving the ball so much faster than we were last year.

We moved the ball slowly forward last year, which gave the opposition ample time to flood back and double/triple/quadruple-team Max. Who we would inevitably bomb the ball long to in a pack of 6-8.

He’ll think it’s Christmas playing up there this year.

Add him and Caminiti to the team we fielded yesterday and we’re vastly more dangerous and likely to score.

 

[Fadge]

It is quite amazing that many of the comments being made about Carlton in this thread, by both Carlton supporters and neutrals alike, are EXACTLY what I was saying during the off-season (and being accused of trolling for doing so).

Interesting. Very interesting indeed...