List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[BrutThough]

But they didn't shut down the blatant tampering with the Cats and Bowes far more recently...

Yes, they didn’t shut down the salary dump and if this proposed Shiel situation was a straight salary dump, it would be a good comparison. But adding in the manipulation of the FA system as part of the salary dump makes it a different situation than what GC and Geelong did

 

[phantom13]

Small things amuse small minds I guess

Watch the same types freak out when we get 3rd round compo and Shiel retires a week after we trade for him.

Still reckon the season supply of CC's for RTB is a better option.

Whatever keeps Ross happy im all for.

Still think we improve on improvements sake TBH.

NAS, Windy, Mitch, Pou, King, Keeler, Van Es, Hotton all going forward. New S&C crew who wont blow every rehab campaigners soft tissues into next week. Hayes, Coff maybe even D-Mac into a few games. If we do all that and add in Henry for a second or third, maybe even get Mini back as a Ross' new shiny assistant the world looks good.

Shiel and 13 for Gresh and then a big ass salary clearance for 2025 FA raid is a cherry.

 

[saintmike65]

I reckon GC will get better offers on 4. From what Stavro said I reckon to make sense for Essendon, that we give them our two firsts for pick 8 and Shiel. Hope that Sanders is still there. Otherwise we end up probably taking a player we would at 13 anyway.

I’m not sure there’s a lot of substance in the Shiel thing…why aren’t more sources reporting anything

 

[phantom13]

Ha ok I thought they’d started this week.

It does not and thank god it does not.

The bullshittery in this thread is likely more accurate than 90% of trade radio.

 

[phantom13]

I’m not sure there’s a lot of substance in the Shiel thing…why aren’t more sources reporting anything

1- Its slightly shady so neither club is gonna be open about it if its a chance
2- Its prelim final week, outside of McKay and a handful of others who are openly out sources are talking about Prelims and Grannys

 

[Miha]

The AFL should he giving us an extra first round pick every year until we win a flag

 

[gringo2011]

If they can get the player they are chasing, absolutely.

I reckon the only reason you'd move up is to get to 4 to get McKercher or maybe Duursma which would probably be a good get in McKercher's case. Or a pick around 8 for Sanders which is more of a gamble. Looks more of a GOP type. I'd rather take the 2 later picks and gamble on Wilson or Windsor and Demattia or something. If we get mid table there is no guarantees the player we want is there still and then you are looking at KPs which I don't think should be spending up big on.

 

[George]

Whatever keeps Ross happy im all for.

Still think we improve on improvements sake TBH.

NAS, Windy, Mitch, Pou, King, Keeler, Van Es, Hotton all going forward. New S&C crew who wont blow every rehab campaigners soft tissues into next week. Hayes, Coff maybe even D-Mac into a few games. If we do all that and add in Henry for a second or third, maybe even get Mini back as a Ross' new shiny assistant the world looks good.

Shiel and 13 for Gresh and then a big ass salary clearance for 2025 FA raid is a cherry.

In all seriousness I'm thinking the same thing, better off we throw Owens and Pou in there and build them into part of the midfield group.

 

[gringo2011]

Yes, they didn’t shut down the salary dump and if this proposed Shiel situation was a straight salary dump, it would be a good comparison. But adding in the manipulation of the FA system as part of the salary dump makes it a different situation than what GC and Geelong did

‘Salary dump’ season: AFL ticks off major change to trade period

‘Salary dump’ season: AFL ticks off major change to trade period

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I'd say Gresham was one of our few first round picks taken that actually got a us a decent player. Nas is a huge outperform for his age. Owens looks a blue chip stock but he's a developing player still. Nowhere near playing consistent high level game yet. Gresham, Dunstan and Billings showed heaps early too.

It has to actually net us an upgrade or there is no point to it. If he was 30 you could see the point more. We don't have much to trade to get back into the front of the draft so are happy to lose good players to gamble on the draft again after going the opposite way a few seasons back. I'd have a lot more faith if they looked on a single path. They are just as likely to * up this draft and go backwards and start trading out for players like Hill again in another 2 years.

We hardly have a core. Nas, Owens, Windhager and Phillipou is a handful, sides like North, GWS, GC, are going to be way ahead and we almost need to try to go now because by they time they develop up we'll still be behind. We've written off the last 20 years of drafting and trading pretty much at this point but are rebuilding from mid table.

I'd rather we admit defeat and do a North than bleed out. At least if we embarrass the AFL they'll change our nappies for us.

How do you guarantee a net upgrade?

If you can, there’s 18 clubs with a very well paid job for you where all you need to do is watch junior footy & call out a few names each November.

Look, I don’t really want to lose Gresh but, once again, it is his prerogative to shop himself around.

And it is the responsibility of the club to try to maximise what return we can get of he does accept an offer.

Surely you can agree with that?


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[saintmike65]

Is a 30 year old Shiel and a 4 pick upgrade worth two first round teen picks?

If we want to go to the draft and add more talent, that deal doesn't make sense for us either.

Pick 12 & 13 for pick 8 is not good business, however pick 4’s a different kettle of fish!!

 

[gringo2011]

I’m not sure there’s a lot of substance in the Shiel thing…why aren’t more sources reporting anything

Dealing with Dodoro going out in a blaze of glory will be more like putting your face up against a glory hole. Can't see it being anything but a lot of time and attention given to him to go nowhere.

 

[gringo2011]

How do you guarantee a net upgrade?

If you can, there’s 18 clubs with a very well paid job for you where all you need to do is watch junior footy & call out a few names each November.

Look, I don’t really want to lose Gresh but, once again, it is his prerogative to shop himself around.

And it is the responsibility of the club to try to maximise what return we can get of he does accept an offer.

Surely you can agree with that?


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The club can try to hold him. Never seen anything to say he's disgruntled and wants out. You can't guarantee anything but you can minimise your chances of making bad calls.

I'd say that taking high risk low reward gambles has set us back and made a 4 year rebuild look like it will be a minimum of 15 years to bear any fruit and that's if they get it right from here.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Except they wouldn’t be independent and the AFL know it. They shut down a similar deal with Crouch and Dunstan so it’s clearly not as easy to execute as you think it is.

Things have changed in the 4 years since the Crouch signing.

The AFL are on record as supporting salary dumps in exchange for picks. Our 3rd rounder to take on an injury prone 30 year old on $800k would tick that box.

Combine that with Gresh’s current salary at StK being close to enough to generate band 1 compo.

Ess matching that or offering a bit more to entice him over is not something that should be considered out of the ordinary.

We can only hope that Laura Kane is as fair an operator as she seems to be.


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[gringo2011]

Whatever keeps Ross happy im all for.

Still think we improve on improvements sake TBH.

NAS, Windy, Mitch, Pou, King, Keeler, Van Es, Hotton all going forward. New S&C crew who wont blow every rehab campaigners soft tissues into next week. Hayes, Coff maybe even D-Mac into a few games. If we do all that and add in Henry for a second or third, maybe even get Mini back as a Ross' new shiny assistant the world looks good.

Shiel and 13 for Gresh and then a big ass salary clearance for 2025 FA raid is a cherry.

I'm the opposite. Absolute Lyon fan but his list management has never been good at either club. What he wants doesn't always leave lists in a better places. He'll dilute the talent for soldiers that do his bidding.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Things have changed in the 4 years since the Crouch signing.

The AFL are on record as supporting salary dumps in exchange for picks. Our 3rd rounder to take on an injury prone 30 year old on $800k would tick that box.

Combine that with Gresh’s current salary at StK being close to enough to generate band 1 compo.

Ess matching that or offering a bit more to entice him over is not something that should be considered out of the ordinary.

We can only hope that Laura Kane is as fair an operator as she seems to be.


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Gresh will be the biggest winner out of all this.

 

[gringo2011]

Things have changed in the 4 years since the Crouch signing.

The AFL are on record as supporting salary dumps in exchange for picks. Our 3rd rounder to take on an injury prone 30 year old on $800k would tick that box.

Combine that with Gresh’s current salary at StK being close to enough to generate band 1 compo.

Ess matching that or offering a bit more to entice him over is not something that should be considered out of the ordinary.

We can only hope that Laura Kane is as fair an operator as she seems to be.


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Any lawyer should be able to bat it away. They are helping clear cap space for Essendon to up their offer. Nothing untoward in that. It's seperate but out in the open to show that it looks above board. Geelong/GC looked worse. Why GC didn't offer him up for free first is beyond me. There must be something dodgy going on under the table because that looks as smelly as ****.

 

[gringo2011]

Gresh will be the biggest winner out of all this.

Getting a free $100k pa sounds okay doesn't it.

 

[phantom13]

I'm the opposite. Absolute Lyon fan but his list management has never been good at either club. What he wants doesn't always leave lists in a better places. He'll dilute the talent for soldiers that do his bidding.

No i agree but i also think new Ross is a bit more aware of his deficiencies and its sharing the load alot more.

 

[phantom13]

Gresh will be the biggest winner out of all this.

If Gresh gets $800k a year from Essendon and we get Pick 13 and Shiel and a chance to have a swing at an FA need in 24/25 then i think we all win...

Except Essendon probably but **** em.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Righto here’s the simple equation for anyone who doesn’t like the prospect of moving on Gresh for a first rounder.

The club isn’t trying to “pinch” a flag next year. We’re trying to stack a core of players before tasmania hit the competition and we’re ****ed in the arse by the league handing them every pick under the sun despite us underperforming. Sound familiar?

If we want to middle for another decade then let’s hang onto Gresh, Howard, Billings and Co. We might push for bottom half of the 8 next year. Yippee!

Gotta be bold to get out of this hole and ahead of the Tassie rort in 2-3 years

 

[#gosaintas]

The AFL should he giving us an extra first round pick every year until we win a flag

Won't help unless they also select the player

 

[sunny3193]

Gold Coast #4 = 2,034

St Kilda #12 = 1,268
Theoretical #13 = 1,212

Total of #12 and #13 = 2,480
(Allowing for one pick movement lower due to matching, this becomes 2,373)

That is more points than any other team could reasonably offer (with the exception of GWS who might offer both #6 and #15 for a two pick upgrade, they have a history of doing this - see Cadman last year - whether they do it again??).

So, yeah.
That might be the end game.

#4 definitely gets Sanders, and one of McKercher or Duursma you’d think.

Plus GC will have all these later picks that they cannot use.
They might have value to someone.

 

[jimmytigs]

Dealing with Dodoro going out in a blaze of glory will be more like putting your face up against a glory hole.

does anyone really believe the dodoro"stepping back to assist"line?
heres my prediction 20 years from now

back page herald sun(the whole paper only has 12 pages by then)

BOMBER SENSATION,HEAD OF FOOTBALL AND COACH RESIGN!

essendon head of football zac merrett and coach elijah tsatas today resigned effective at end of the season,there has been months of speculation of clashes with long time list boss adrian dodoro,tsatas who famously kicked the winning goal in the bombers first finals win for eighteen thousand six hundred and thirty two days under coach at the time merrett in his penultimate game(they got belted the following week to the tune of 85 points)before retiring is apparently being courted by four afl clubs,including the two newest tasmania and the south west groper eaters based at border village,the highly respected merrett is also expected to gain interest from other clubs

notoriously media shy dodoro would only give a wink to the cameras,but his manager released a statement"i got us that famous finals win and ive still never lost on a trade"

former brief list boss matt rosa who oversaw the rebuild and 4 premierships at his original club the west coast eagles after also departing essendon with rumors of clashes with dodoro and the late kevin sheedy chose not to comment on the matter,only to say that he found merrett and tsatas to be fine and competent young men at his time at the club

as the bombers are out of contention for finals the search for replacements will begin immediately

chief football writer
Tom(i didnt mean it)Morris

 

[Joffaboy]

Just heard something that applies to many on this thread

You live in the past, you die in the present.