Review 2023 National Draft Review Thread II [McKercher, Z.Duursma, Goad, W.Dawson, Hardeman, Maley]

[The Lone Latic]

I honestly have no idea who we will take, who I think we will take or have a preference. I just hope it works out for the kids we do draft and we just climb the ladder.

In the mean time, I'll just watch the ongoing arguments on the side line

 

[The Lone Latic]

I will not stand by and let the good name of Brent LeCras be besmirched.

We always seen to end up with the more rubbish brother at some stage on the list

 

[scottywiper]

We always seen to end up with the more rubbish brother at some stage on the list

Jar Jar Powers.

 

[The Nostradamus]

If our picks don’t change which is unlikely but the below is my picks as things stand

2: Watto
3: Curtin
15: Schoenmaker
17: Philactides
18: Logan Morris

 

[Shinboner1]

3 players of need with our picks in teens would be amazing.
Mckertcher and Watson 2 and 3.
Then grab 3 defenders with the other picks or 2 and Edwards if available.
Set us up for the future.

 

[hilly]

Logan Morris sounds like a cigarette brand.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DuckYeah]

I’d hit the draft and pick with 15/17/18 - three bites of the cherry around that mark, we are surely able to grab 1 diamond in the rough.

 

[Souup]

Agree. A gun interceptor in the backline is certainly something we'll need if we ever want to seriously contend for a flag. We expect to probably be bottom 4 next year, in a draft rich with midfielders and bereft of talls; it would be so shortsighted if we take two midfielders this year.

Curtin isn't a gun interceptor, so selecting him to play that role would be a mistake.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Sphynx]

Some clubs view Duursma as having as high a ceiling as Reid.

I think on draft night, prepare yourselves for him being picked by us before McKercher at 2 (3* after the Walter bid).

Based on what I'm hearing, I think if we were to pick up Curtin, Watson or Sanders (which isn't going to happen) it would be at the expense of McKercher, not Duursma.

 

[lockheed]

Logan Morris sounds like a cigarette brand.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Would his nickname be 'Phillip'?

 

[lockheed]

Curtin isn't a gun interceptor, so selecting him to play that role would be a mistake.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

My mistake. I'll stand corrected and revise my FWIW picks.

So if we want a gun interceptor, it won't be Curtin, and it won't be pick 3.

Souup - O'Sullivan then, somewhere around pick 7 or 8?

 

[Flawed Genius]

Some clubs view Duursma as having as high a ceiling as Reid.

I think on draft night, prepare yourselves for him being picked by us before McKercher at 2 (3* after the Walter bid).

Based on what I'm hearing, I think if we were to pick up Curtin, Watson or Sanders (which isn't going to happen) it would be at the expense of McKercher, not Duursma.

With an extra 10kg are we talking somewhere near the De Goey/Petracca/Martin-style fwd/mid for Duursma as a best case scenario?

 

[Sphynx]

With an extra 10kg are we talking somewhere near the De Goey/Petracca/Martin-style fwd/mid for Duursma as a best case scenario?

I don't think he's got the physical gifts of those guys personally, they all have real burst power and are naturally heavily built.

McKercher is more like them as a midfielder, but a lighter version.

Hard to peg what he eventually might become, something like a cross between a Fritsch/Stringer/Heeney as a forward, but with better midfield potential than all of them. He's probably a better contested mark than all of them, even better than Heeney who is amazing overhead.

Stringer is an amazing clearance player when he plays there, but just doesn't have the endurance there to last longer than a few minutes.

I've also heard a few scouts and recruiters compare him to Fyfe also if he can really fill out. Fyfe has a very similar athletic profile to Duursma. Played a similar role in juniors also.

Jimmy Bartel is another very good comparison as a midfield prospect. Jimmy was amazing overhead and Duursma is legitimately close to the best contested mark in the entire draft.

If he grows another few cm to 192/193cm, you are talking a genuine CHF prospect also. In which case you are probably talking a Charlie Curnow type forward.

If Duursma was 193cm, I'd have him close to #1 ahead of both Reid and Walter, as I'd be developing him as a CHF with his vertical, contested marking, agility, engine etc. He'd be an absolutely unique prospect given his natural forward craft, marking, vertical - much better prospect than Cadman in almost all aspect as an example if he got the height..

This also comes into consideration for clubs, physical growth potential shouldn't be underestimated, it's almost like betting on stocks etc in some way.

Duursma only turned 18 about 8 weeks ago, so there's definitely a chance he grows more...

Will Dawson is another in that bracket, who is a late birthday for this draft (20th December)

 

[Masked Avenger]

Curtin isn't a gun interceptor, so selecting him to play that role would be a mistake.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Curtin looks mobile, athletic and hunts the ball - traits that would lend itself to an intercepting or sweeping role accross half back.

Interested in your thoughts where he falls short in excelling in a role like that given his attributes

Is it his marking or other factors in your view?

 

[Sphynx]

Curtin looks mobile, athletic and hunts the ball - traits that would lend itself to an intercepting or sweeping role accross half back.

Interested in your thoughts where he falls short in excelling in a role like that given his attributes

Is it his marking or other factors in your view?

So was Sam Durdin.....

It's rare that a young KPD in the u/18's looks a top notch intercepting defender, it's generally something they develop in the AFL system, especially as they get stronger.

It's also why they have massive bust potential, as you don't know if they have THE most important modern AFL trait when you draft them.

Also why so many of the best defenders seem to get picked later in the draft.


The concern on Curtin is that there's not too many examples of one-on-one contested marks, pack marks etc which would at least lend you to think contested marking is a strength that will be developed into intercept marking once in an AFL system.

There's lots of examples of decent defending and of course plenty of rebound and midfield play. But can he beat an opponent one on one regularly? He does double grab a lot of basic marks, which is a worry.


Durdin's biggest failure as an AFL footballer was his marking. He struggled to take any contested marks and dropped sitters regularly. He was generally competent as a basic defender, moved alright, good size, great kick etc. If he could intercept like McKay, he'd still be at North.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

So was Sam Durdin.....

It's rare that a young KPD in the u/18's looks a top notch intercepting defender, it's generally something they develop in the AFL system, especially as they get stronger.

It's also why they have massive bust potential, as you don't know if they have THE most important modern AFL trait when you draft them.

Also why so many of the best defenders seem to get picked later in the draft.


The concern on Curtin is that there's not too many examples of one-on-one contested marks, pack marks etc which would at least lend you to think contested marking is a strength that will be developed into intercept marking once in an AFL system.


Durdin's biggest failure as an AFL footballer was his marking. He struggled to take any contested marks and dropped sitters regularly. He was generally competent as a basic defender, moved alright, good size, great kick etc. If he could intercept like McKay, he'd still be at North.

Durdin never showed a consistent ability to find the ball at any level throughout his career unlike Curtin who can rack them up in multiple positions.

I think people are underselling Curtin’s Footy IQ a bit. He looks so natural on the field and his positioning both defensively and when he is providing an option are excellent.

IMO Teaching big men how to find the ball and be in the right places is 3 quarters of the battle when it comes to their development. Curtin already has it in spades.

His marking definitely needs to improve though if he is going to become an elite defender. All the other on field tools are there though.

 

[Sphynx]

Curtin scopes more like Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

than Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

29

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

.

(Still a bloody great player mind you....)

 

[Masked Avenger]

So was Sam Durdin.....

It's rare that a young KPD in the u/18's looks a top notch intercepting defender, it's generally something they develop in the AFL system, especially as they get stronger.

It's also why they have massive bust potential, as you don't know if they have THE most important modern AFL trait when you draft them.

Also why so many of the best defenders seem to get picked later in the draft.


The concern on Curtin is that there's not too many examples of one-on-one contested marks, pack marks etc which would at least lend you to think contested marking is a strength that will be developed into intercept marking once in an AFL system.

There's lots of examples of decent defending and of course plenty of rebound and midfield play. But can he beat an opponent one on one regularly? He does double grab a lot of basic marks, which is a worry.


Durdin's biggest failure as an AFL footballer was his marking. He struggled to take any contested marks and dropped sitters regularly. He was generally competent as a basic defender, moved alright, good size, great kick etc. If he could intercept like McKay, he'd still be at North.

Interesting. I'm not sure Durdin is a comparison imo.

Durdin's profile was ruck/forward given his height from memory.

Curtin's a different profile athletically. He's been spoken about as a possible midfielder.

While marking is important - I see Jake Lever as one of the best interceptors going around yet you wouldn't call him an above average mark.

Intercepting imo is equally about closing space, spoiling and filling holes. Having offensive weapons help.

What's got Durdin imo is that intangible - a lack of killer extinct.

 

[Sphynx]

Durdin never showed a consistent ability to find the ball at any level throughout his career unlike Curtin who can rack them up in multiple positions.

I think people are underselling Curtin’s Footy IQ a bit. He looks so natural on the field and his positioning both defensively and when he is providing an option are excellent.

IMO Teaching big men how to find the ball and be in the right places is 3 quarters of the battle when it comes to their development. Curtin already has it in spades.

His marking definitely needs to improve though if he is going to become an elite defender. All the other on field tools are there though.

I'm not underselling him at all.

I think he's absolutely worthy of being in the top 6 picks, I just don't think he's a CHB, which is really the only reason we'd look past best available, if a bonafide gun CHB was available.

He's a rebounding taller HBF with Jordan Dawson being his ceiling and someone like Scrimshaw being his floor.

 

[Sphynx]

Interesting. I'm not sure Durdin is a comparison imo.

Durdin's profile was ruck/forward given his height from memory.

Curtin's a different profile athletically. He's been spoken about as a possible midfielder.

While marking is important - I see Jake Lever as one of the best interceptors going around yet you wouldn't call him an above average mark.

Intercepting imo is equally about closing space, spoiling and filling holes. Having offensive weapons help.

What's got Durdin imo is that intangible - a lack of killer extinct.

I want to preface, I'm not comparing Durdin and Curtin

I was using Durdin as an example of a key defender who wasn't able to develop his marking so it prevented him from making it as a KPD in the AFL.

Curtin at worst will be a rebounding HBF'r. Durdin never had that athletic ability and footy IQ to get the ball in that position.

You absolutely have to factor in the WA aspect here also. We did it with McDonald, we got burnt on JHF, McKercher will be a consideration, but it's years away.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I'm not underselling him at all.

I think he's absolutely worthy of being in the top 6 picks, I just don't think he's a CHB, which is really the only reason we'd look past best available, if a bonafide gun CHB was available.

He's a rebounding taller HBF with Jordan Dawson being his ceiling and someone like Scrimshaw being his floor.

That’s fair. I guess I see a bit more projection as a genuine KP rather than a flanker. Once he fills out he is going to be a big lad and with his athleticism I still see him being a CHB in the long term.

How’d you rate his one on one ability in the WA v Allies game? I thought he had some bloody good moments on Walter, despite WA getting peppered.

 

[Sphynx]

That’s fair. I guess I see a bit more projection as a genuine KP rather than a flanker. Once he fills out he is going to be a big lad and with his athleticism I still see him being a CHB in the long term.

How’d you rate his one on one ability in the WA v Allies game? I thought he had some bloody good moments on Walter, despite WA getting peppered.

He's more than good one-on-one defensively.

Who plays like that that as a top line AFL defender? No one.

They are all intercepting defenders with a bog average defender next to them. See Murphy & Moore, Gardiner/Payne & Andrews. The most talented "cover" defender is Stephen May for Jake Lever. But they had Petty back there also for a time.

Logue is going to be that May type moving forward (fingers crossed he recovers long term), we need a gun intercepting CHB.

I don't see it with Curtin. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 marks across this entire year of his that stand out, which is a major red flag.

 

[krakouers]

giantroo please?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft/afl-draft-2023-the-best-prospects-who-are-flying-under-the-radar/news-story/a8ea96cd2063c67c3dad3c6dacced711/

 

[Sheezel2Wardlaw]

Apologies if this has been discussed a lot already, but a question for anyone that watches VFL.

Thoughts on drafting Shaun Mannagh as a small forward? Could he play as a high pressure small forward in the AFL? He doesn’t seem to play that way in the VFL but he looks good enough to be on a list.

Could we not just sign him up as a DFA?

 

[giantroo]

giantroo please?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft/afl-draft-2023-the-best-prospects-who-are-flying-under-the-radar/news-story/a8ea96cd2063c67c3dad3c6dacced711/

Spoiler

Draft steals? 16 hidden gems your club could snare​

Chris Cavanagh, Dan Batten

11–13 minutes

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While the depth of this year’s draft is not considered to be particularly strong, clubs are always searching to find a late gem.
Here are 16 players who are flying under the radar that could fit the bill.

LUKE LLOYD​

A 193cm forward, Lloyd emerged as a draft bolter in the second half of the year. He was unsighted at the under-18 national championships, after missing selection for Vic Metro following an early-season quad injury. However, Lloyd kicked 19 goals in a game for school side De La Salle in May to put his potential on show. His marking is a feature of his game and he booted eight goals across his final three games of the season for Sandringham Dragons in the Coates Talent League, including two majors in a winning grand final.

CALSHER DEAR​

A 195cm forward, Dear had a solid second half of the season for Sandringham Dragons in the Coates Talent League to attract some late AFL attention. He played as a forward and back-up ruck for the Dragons and particularly caught the eye in the grand final as he logged 13 disposals, 14 hit-outs, three marks and kicked two goals. Dear’s mobility for a big man and ability to win the footy in the air and at ground level are his big strengths. He is eligible to join Hawthorn as a father-son, being the son of the late Paul Dear who played 123 games and won a premiership with the club in 1991.

COOPER SIMPSON​

Somewhat of a forgotten man, Simpson has slid down draft boards through little fault of his own, with an injury during the championships sidelining him for a critical part of the season. But his finish to year for the Dandenong Stingrays was a reminder of his x-factor as a midfielder, booting 2 goals from 20 disposals in his final outing. Simpson has a great sidestep in traffic and can break a game open with his penetrating kick, burst and ability to hit the scoreboard, averaging 21.5 disposals and just under a goal per game at Coates Talent League level. Had impressive results across the board at the combine and also received a VFL opportunity for Casey earlier in the year.

WILL GRAHAM ​

The 186cm midfielder has been the forgotten fourth Gold Coast Suns Academy member in this year’s draft pool. Three first-round draft locks from the Suns’ Academy – Jed Walter, Ethan Read and Jake Rogers – have been heavily talked about. However, Graham is a solid prospect in his own right. A potential top-40 pick, he can play as an inside midfielder or on a wing and has strong athletic traits which shone through at the recent national draft combine. Graham finished second in the 20m sprint, equal-second in the vertical jump and equal-third in the running vertical jump.

CAIDEN CLEARY​

Cleary was the fourth ranked player at the national championships, finishing second for tackles, fourth most disposals and equal fourth for contested possessions. Yet the hard-nosed Swans Academy prospect may not attract a bid inside the first two rounds of the draft. Cleary isn’t overly quick and there are knocks over his kicking, but he is one of the best inside ball-winners in the pool. The 182cm midfielder tackles like his life depends on it and his performances have stacked up against men, playing six games for Sydney at VFL level, with his five centre-clearances, 22 disposals and 102 ranking points against GWS Giants’ VFL side the highlight. He also can run all day, clocking the fifth best 2km trial time result at the draft combine. Cleary is expected to be matched by the Swans, but after their three acquisitions during the trade and free agency period, they may only take two or three picks in the national draft.

WIL DAWSON​

A versatile tall, Dawson measured 200.3cm at the national draft combine and is still growing. Gippsland Power required him in defence this year and he impressed in that position. However, Dawson is seen as a natural forward and back-up ruck, which is where he featured in his bottom-age season in 2022. While not a finished product just yet, there is plenty of excitement about what Dawson could become given his size, competitive nature, one-on-one contest wins and ability to be clean below his knees. He has met with just about every club, suggesting he will likely land somewhere.

SHAUN MANNAGH ​

Clubs after a plug and play mature-ager who can find the footy with ease and consistently hit the scoreboard, look no further. Mannagh put an exclamation point on his dominant VFL season with an incredible grand final performance, booting six goals and racking up 28 disposals to win the best-on-ground medal in Werribee’s loss to Gold Coast. You have to have make a significant impact to get drafted at 26, but Mannagh did just that at VFL level this season as a midfielder-forward, averaging 25 disposals, 7.8 score involvements, 5.6 tackles 4.7 clearances, 1.9 goals and 117 ranking points per game. Players who can break games open in the forward half while winning 20 disposals are hard to find, and Mannagh is well worth the punt.

COOPER TREMBATH ​

A 193cm tall, Trembath took to his first season in defence like a duck to water this year. He was overlooked for Vic Metro’s under-18 national championships squad, but starred in the middle and later part of the year for the Eastern Ranges as a strong-marking and intercepting backman. In a round 7 match in the Coates Talent League, Trembath racked up 17 disposals and 14 marks including eight intercept marks. He has quickly learnt when to go for his marks and when to spoil and how to position his body. Trembath can play on mid-sized forwards but also a little bit bigger and has drawn comparisons to Greater Western Sydney’s Connor Idun.

MICHAEL RUDD​

Rudd was equal fifth for goals per game at the national championships after an eye-catching carnival for Vic Country, but he was left off the national combine invite list. Club concerns centre on the medium forward’s speed, but what Rudd does have is a huge engine and strong hands overhead. Rudd showcased this at the state combine where he came equal-fifth in the 2km time trial (6:17). At 192cm, Rudd plays in a similar vein to Collingwood premiership forward Brody Mihocek and could prove to be a hidden gem for a club after a marking forward with relentless workrate.

TAYLOR GOAD​

The equal-tallest player at the national draft combine, Goad measured in at a towering 206.2cm. However, despite his size he is incredibly athletic and finished eighth in both the 20m sprint and vertical jump tests. Goad featured as a ruckman for South Australia in all four games of the under-18 national championships and continued his good form in the second half of the season for South Adelaide in the SANFL under-18s. He is agile, has good skills and is super competitive. Goad only began to focus on football again last year, having previously prioritised basketball.

KANE MCAULIFFE ​

A 187cm utility from North Adelaide, McAuliffe has some fans and showcased his incredible athletic abilities at the national draft combine. He finished third in the running vertical jump and fifth in both the vertical jump and the 20m sprint tests. He was also the first South Australian across the line in the 2km time trial, finishing in a time of 6min 26sec. A member of the AFL Academy this year, McAuliffe was restricted at times by a groin injury. However, the penetrating left-footer led the way in the midfield for South Australia at the national championships and impressed across seven SANFL reserves matches in the second half of the year.

LOGAN EVANS​

A strong start to the season saw Evans crack into the Norwood’s senior side from the get-go, tallying 18 disposals in a promising league debut. The rangy defender has spent time at all three levels this season but has played most of his footy in Norwood’s reserves, where he has averaged 15.2 disposals, 5.8 intercepts and 91 ranking points across 10 matches. His national championships could have been better, but as his national combine snub proves, Evans’ season has flown under the radar. The 189cm prospect reads the play well, has tidy skills and isn’t afraid to get his hands dirty defensively

REECE TORRENT​

A 184cm midfielder or rebounding halfback, Torrent had a solid national championships with Western Australia and made an even better finish to the season. He made his senior WAFL debut for Peel Thunder in the final round of the regular season, showing good composure and kicking a goal. He runs hard and can break the lines, can win his own ball when playing inside and hits targets when on the outside with his nice left foot. Torrent placed seventh in the agility test at the national draft combine, while also performing well in the 2km time trial with a time of 6min 24sec.

KOEN SANCHEZ​

May not have eye-catching traits of WA bolter Lance Collard, but Sanchez is a hardworking half-forward who is always keeping himself busy. Sanchez had a consistent national carnival where he averaged 17.8 disposals, 6.0 score involvments, 1.5 goals and 102 ranking points, with his three goals against Vic Metro the highlight. The East Fremantle prospect is very clean below his knees, has deft footskills and is a great decision maker. Sanchez has racked up large possession tallies as a midfielder at WAFL Colts level, suggesting he can pinch hit in the midfield at the next level. Sanchez has also made the step up to WAFL Reserves level and didn’t look out of place.

BAILEY VAN DE HEUVEL​

More Coverage​

The dearth of key defenders in the AFL saw the 25-year-old burst onto the draft radar, with his invite to the state combine evidence of club interest. After crossing from Footscray to Geelong’s VFL side, Van De Heuvel went to anothett level at the back end of the season, averaging 18.2 disposals, 8.3 marks, 7.8 intercept possessions and 4.8 marks in his last five games. This was all while working as an electrician during the week. At 200cm, Van De Heuvel can win the ball back off the opposition with his reading of the play and overhead marking, and he is ultra competitive defensively. Geelong VFL coach Mark Corrigan views him as a mature-ager with significant upside given he has never been in a full-time program. Could he be the latest Cats VFL graduate to be promoted to Geelong list?

SAM CLOHESY​

The Fothergill-Round-Mitchell Medal has been a golden ticket into the AFL for mature-age talents, with Ethan Phillips (2022) the first recipient in the last 16 years who didn’t go on to get drafted. Clohesy, the older brother of 2022 Geelong draftee Ted, was recognised with the award after coming on in leaps and bounds this year alongside Mannagh for Werribee, averaging 16.8 disposalss and 5.6 marks. The rebounding defender uses the ball well by foot, is a good size at 189cm and is strong overhead. Clohesy has played local footy all over the country and this year was his first full season playing VFL football, giving him promising upside for a club after a defender. Several clubs have shown interest, with his 26-disposal preliminary final in particular attracting attention.