The '' Back to Back '' Crows of 1997/98

[Rotayjay]

We were lucky, but also good enough, at just the right times.

An exchange between Tim Watson and Leigh Matthews during the last quarter of Channel Seven’s television coverage of the [1998] grand final summed things up nicely. "The Crows are a super team," opined Watson, to which Matthews responded, with predictable Victorian cynicism, that that was perhaps going a little far; what they were, he suggested, was a super September team. Watson’s response was quick and suitably dismissive. "It’s the only kind that matters."

Australian Football - Adelaide Football Club - Bio

australianfootball.com

 

[Freomaniac]

We were lucky, but also good enough, at just the right times.

An exchange between Tim Watson and Leigh Matthews during the last quarter of Channel Seven’s television coverage of the [1998] grand final summed things up nicely. "The Crows are a super team," opined Watson, to which Matthews responded, with predictable Victorian cynicism, that that was perhaps going a little far; what they were, he suggested, was a super September team. Watson’s response was quick and suitably dismissive. "It’s the only kind that matters."

Australian Football - Adelaide Football Club - Bio

australianfootball.com

Sounds about right.

But Saying that.... This was 1995-2010. 8 sides made the final 8 in a 16 team comp.

I wouldnt say it was Easy for non vic sides to win the flag. But Under certain situations, Especially the crows in 1997-8, Non vic sides had a good chance.


Scary thing was, there were at least 2 Non Vic sides I could think of that were much superior to the crows 1997-8 side, but Choked due to experienced Victorian sides.

One was the 1991 west coast eagles side that won 19 games in the regular season. They lost 3 games by a combined total of 16 points. They lost to an Experienced Hawks side in the 1991 Grand final.

the other one was the 1996 swans side that finished top with 16 wins and a Draw. They lost to a North Melbourne side that lost 2 prelims in 1994 and 1995.

Someone mentioned the Importance of Shaun Rehn the ruckman. That was also true. He did his knee in 1996, Crows didnt make finals. Rehn Was fit in 1997-8, crows won flags. Rehn did his knee in 1999, crows didnt make finals.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Yeah at least you haven't gone almost 20 years without winning a finals game. I don't buy into the talk that Essendon would have won if they made the grand final in 1999.

I think the Roos were men possessed that year after throwing away a flag in 1998. Essendon or no Essendon you were winning that flag anyway.

I hate to say it but I disagree. They were the better side that year. I think they would have won comfortably. We lost McCartney for the GF and we already had the worst defence in the top 8 that year. They had a strong forward line.

Then again they weren't even good enough to beat 6th when it counted, so **** 'em.

 

[Freomaniac]

I hate to say it but I disagree. They were the better side that year. I think they would have won comfortably. We lost McCartney for the GF and we already had the worst defence in the top 8 that year. They had a strong forward line.

Then again they weren't even good enough to beat 6th when it counted, so **** 'em.

As a North fan.... I am dead certain you remember the 1990s period well. I mean from 1994-99, North made a prelim final each year.

North won flags in 1996 and 1999. Would you be happy to trade the 1996 flag for 1998? That means North wins back to back flags in 1998-9.

Then you have that North side that made grand finals in that 1974-78 period. North won flags in 1975 vs hawks and 1977 vs magpies. North lost 1974 to tigers , then 1976 and 1978 to hawks.

Would you be happy to settle with the 1975 and 1977 flags? Or be happy to win back to back in either 1974-5 or 1975-6 or 1976-7 or 1977-78?

I know you would of been happy to win 4 flags in 5 years back to back in 1974-5 and 1977-78.

 

[Rod Stroker]

As a North fan.... I am dead certain you remember the 1990s period well. I mean from 1994-99, North made a prelim final each year.

North won flags in 1996 and 1999. Would you be happy to trade the 1996 flag for 1998? That means North wins back to back flags in 1998-9.

Then you have that North side that made grand finals in that 1974-78 period. North won flags in 1975 vs hawks and 1977 vs magpies. North lost 1974 to tigers , then 1976 and 1978 to hawks.

Would you be happy to settle with the 1975 and 1977 flags? Or be happy to win back to back in either 1974-5 or 1975-6 or 1976-7 or 1977-78?

I know you would of been happy to win 4 flags in 5 years back to back in 1974-5 and 1977-78.

Myself like many other North fans reckon that we probably should have won 98, but lost 99.
95 no one was beating Carlton
97 we had injuries to too many key players throughout the year and were never really a threat
The only other one that we might have been a decent chance was 94 against the Eagles had we got there

 

[Bungeye]

North were definitely the most watchable team of the 90s imo. Not only did they play with attacking flair, but they did it with a hard edge!

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

North were definitely the most watchable team of the 90s imo. Not only did they play with attacking flair, but they did it with a hard edge!

Martyn
Schwass
Archer
Carey
Fairley
Rock
Simpson
Mckernan
Romero

They had some stones.

 

[CURVE]

I hate to say it but I disagree. They were the better side that year. I think they would have won comfortably. We lost McCartney for the GF and we already had the worst defence in the top 8 that year. They had a strong forward line.

Then again they weren't even good enough to beat 6th when it counted, so **** 'em.

We were never a great defensive team during the Pagan era, we had the worst defense of the top 8 teams in 1999 and third worst in 1996. In fact, we conceded more points than every other team during the Pagan's 10 years in charge. It may have been one of the reasons so many found us a great team to watch in the 90's, our style was to outscore not out defend our opponents. It did mean that on occasions if our opponents could neutralize our attack then we were left open to heavy defeats and we did suffer 1 or 2 of those each season.

As for Adelaide, they were a great team with great players and a great coach, but you also need a lot of luck to win a flag and they were very lucky that North was so poor in front of goal in the first half, but they were good enough to make the most of their luck and dominate the second half.

 

[Rod Stroker]

We were never a great defensive team during the Pagan era, we had the worst defense of the top 8 teams in 1999 and third worst in 1996. In fact, we conceded more points than every other team during the Pagan's 10 years in charge. It may have been one of the reasons so many found us a great team to watch in the 90's, our style was to outscore not out defend our opponents. It did mean that on occasions if our opponents could neutralize our attack then we were left open to heavy defeats and we did suffer 1 or 2 of those each season.

As for Adelaide, they were a great team with great players and a great coach, but you also need a lot of luck to win a flag and they were very lucky that North was so poor in front of goal in the first half, but they were good enough to make the most of their luck and dominate the second half.

Not sure I subscribe to the luck theory. Bad kicking is bad football. We kicked straighter, the game could have been over at half time.

 

[Freomaniac]

Myself like many other North fans reckon that we probably should have won 98, but lost 99.
95 no one was beating Carlton
97 we had injuries to too many key players throughout the year and were never really a threat
The only other one that we might have been a decent chance was 94 against the Eagles had we got there

I agree on most points.... Except 1994.

I dont think North Melbourne would of beaten The eagles in 1994. North Just made an elim final in 1993 and Ironically lost to eagles in an elim final in Victoria too.

Saying that, Norths 1996-9 was at their peak.

I agree no one was beating Carlton in 1995.

1996: Say no more.

1997, Wayne carey missed half of that 1997 season with injuries.

But you look at that slow build up of North that lead to that 1996 flag. Longmire, Carey and Martin all had their debut years in 1988 as 17 or 18 or 19 year old. By 1996, they were in that prime years of 25-27 years old.

 

[_Mike_]

Any team that wins B2B has to have been pretty good, even if the system 8 during that time was flawed. However not in the same group of greatness that was Brisbane 01-04 & Hawthorn 08-15

 

[BronCrow]

As a Crows supporter, our premiership sides were good sides but not great sides. As Lethal said, super September teams, though we did ride our luck, as most premiership sides do, especially in 1998. I say that as I think Sydney beat St Kilda by less than a kick in the first week of the finals. If St Kilda had of won that game, we were out.

Just a point on the old finals system, which had its flaws. In the first year of the new system in 1999 Carlton, who finished 6th, were thrashed by Brisbane at The Gabba in the first week of the finals. In the second week they were able to play at the MCG against West Coast who had beaten the Western Bulldogs in Melbourne the week before. If that game had been played in Perth, as it should have been, one would question if Carlton would ever have made the 1999 GF.


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[Mofra]

1997 - very lucky in the prelim and the Saints were the best team that year, it was the Spider Everitt injury that cost the Saints the flag.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

As a Crows supporter, our premiership sides were good sides but not great sides. As Lethal said, super September teams, though we did ride our luck, as most premiership sides do, especially in 1998. I say that as I think Sydney beat St Kilda by less than a kick in the first week of the finals. If St Kilda had of won that game, we were out.

Just a point on the old finals system, which had its flaws. In the first year of the new system in 1999 Carlton, who finished 6th, were thrashed by Brisbane at The Gabba in the first week of the finals. In the second week they were able to play at the MCG against West Coast who had beaten the Western Bulldogs in Melbourne the week before. If that game had been played in Perth, as it should have been, one would question if Carlton would ever have made the 1999 GF.


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Yep. Blues did beat the Eagles in Perth earlier that year. 32 points down as well. But I reckon the Eagles would have got them at Subi.

Horrible finals system.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

1997 - very lucky in the prelim and the Saints were the best team that year, it was the Spider Everitt injury that cost the Saints the flag.

Was Libba's shot a goal

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Was Libba's shot a goal

Yes and Feral Crow supporter throwing an Apple at James Cook made him miss his 7th.

 

[Mofra]

Was Libba's shot a goal

Libba still says it was a goal - but there were 6 other chances in that last quarter than ended up as behinds as well.
With Everett injured I would have fancied our chances the following week.

 

[Freomaniac]

We were never a great defensive team during the Pagan era, we had the worst defense of the top 8 teams in 1999 and third worst in 1996. In fact, we conceded more points than every other team during the Pagan's 10 years in charge. It may have been one of the reasons so many found us a great team to watch in the 90's, our style was to outscore not out defend our opponents. It did mean that on occasions if our opponents could neutralize our attack then we were left open to heavy defeats and we did suffer 1 or 2 of those each season.

As for Adelaide, they were a great team with great players and a great coach, but you also need a lot of luck to win a flag and they were very lucky that North was so poor in front of goal in the first half, but they were good enough to make the most of their luck and dominate the second half.

Keep in mind this was the 1990s. Most sides that won the grand final or made Grand finals were attack minded sides.

Geelongs side that lost the 1992, 1994 and 1995 grand finals were one of the most attacking and High Scoring sides on record.

Norths 1996 and 1999 premiership sides were attacking too.

So were the 1997 and 1998 crows sides.

Only side in the 1990s that was considered defensive that won the flag was the 1994 eagles side that Averaged 94 points in attack and 72 points in defence. Every other side averaged 100 points in attack in the regular season.

 

[Mr Meow]

This thread made me look back at that famous North Melbourne choke ('98) - the extended highlights.

North absolutely shot themselves in the foot but the Crows were running all over them in the second half.

McLeod's performance was stunning. He had 4 goal assists in just over a quarter after the half time break. His score involvements would've been off the chain. In and out of traffic, breaking lines, setting up team mates for clear plays - absolutely blistering stuff.

And Jarman just came in clutch again when they needed it; whereas Carey couldn't stop missing.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Was Libba's shot a goal

No.... but it's funny that it's still being talked about.

 

[Apsaalooke]

This thread made me look back at that famous North Melbourne choke ('98) - the extended highlights.

North absolutely shot themselves in the foot but the Crows were running all over them in the second half.

McLeod's performance was stunning. He had 4 goal assists in just over a quarter after the half time break. His score involvements would've been off the chain. In and out of traffic, breaking lines, setting up team mates for clear plays - absolutely blistering stuff.

And Jarman just came in clutch again when they needed it; whereas Carey couldn't stop missing.

The '98 half time score would have been even uglier for the Crows if not for Ben Hart.

Don't forget though that by full time both teams had the same number of scoring shots - 15.15 to 8.22

 

[Freomaniac]

No.... but it's funny that it's still being talked about.

I will never forget Darren Harman's set shot in the 4th quarter in that 1997 preliminary final vs the dogs.

The set shot was only 30 metres in front of goal. He scored, but it barely made it through.

I have no doubt he was nervous.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Those teams were probably more comparable to the 2008 Hawks.

Young core with some experienced heads.

Difference being Hawthorn took advantage of their time in the sun half a decade later, where as the crows did not, losing 3 prelims in 5 years.

 

[Freomaniac]

Those teams were probably more comparable to the 2008 Hawks.

Young core with some experienced heads.

Difference being Hawthorn took advantage of their time in the sun half a decade later, where as the crows did not, losing 3 prelims in 5 years.

Well because your team didn't tank hard enough in your team's down years lol

 

[Bungeye]

Martyn
Schwass
Archer
Carey
Fairley
Rock
Simpson
Mckernan
Romero

They had some stones.

Pickett
Stevens
Laidley
Pike