Play Nice 2024 AFL and State League Attendance

[GCS in 11]

11440 here at Carrara

Today’s crowd was 400 off from our highest ever crowd vs West Coast of 11,840 in 2014. A bit more momentum behind the Suns and we’ll be breaking these records a lot more often.

 

[Hawkk]

I'm not saying we're the equivalent of either three smallest clubs, I'm saying we're somewhat bigger hence where the argument that Melbourne are in the same tier as Geelong and Hawthorn.
For those big games and Crowds, Melbourne are clearly above the other 3 clubs and could have an argument for being in that tier above.

H&A crowds above 70k since 97:
Melbourne - 16
Geelong - 22
Hawthorn - 25

So yes, Melbourne have less but also had a period where we were legitimately the worst team since Fitzroy lol and also didn't make finals for 12 years straight. I'm sure if Melbourne had the success that Hawthorn and Geelong had, we would have had several more big/70k plus crowds. Its actually impressive that we're not that far off considering how much better Ahwthorn and Geelong have been.

Almost every club in the league will get some rough crowds when they're uncompetitive, its just that we haven't really been able to see that with Hawthorn and Geelong. Hell even Collingwood have had some sub 25k crowds when they were going poor. Like I really doubt that Hawthorn will being seeing a 70k crowd while they're locked in the bottom 4 for now, with their closest ones being Easter Monday (which have been impressive crowds)


Again, I think Geelong and Hawthorn are bigger clubs, but Melbourne fans get ragged on a lot when the reality is our numbers are pretty good and im proud to say that we've been a part of some big games and crowds.

Hawthorn had a 70,000 crowd in round 1, have had two 65,000 plus attendances already this season (plus the Collingwood game in Adelaide (average 66,000)) and had 4 last year.

The Hawks crowds have been pretty resilient (last year we had our best MCG numbers since the three-peat) which is pretty surprising given the Hawks third largest home crowd (up until 2007) was just 55,019.

As for today, looks touch or go 35,000

 

[Demon13304]

Melbourne play almost all their games against the big 4 at the G whereas North and the Bulldogs don’t get hardly any at all.

Collingwood are just as likely to play a home game against the Bulldogs or North at Docklands as they are the MCG.

I know that , hence why I said it. But they've still had plenty of opportunities to get those numbers but they just haven't. One that comes to mind is Western Bulldogs season opener against Collingwood in 2017, after winning a flag, got 66k. In fact, since 1997, they've had 31 games at the MCG against a big 4 club (and then even more against non big 4 clubs). That's plenty of opportunity. I haven't had a look at North or Saints numbers ,i imagine it would be similar.

I know it's not the fairest comparison considering we play a lot more games at the MCG. If WB, North and Stkilda had as many games at the MCG, I'm sure a few 70k+ games would've happened but I really don't think it wouldve been as much as 16 times. I still think there's a point to be made that Melbourne have been involved in some of the bigger games of the season whereas those clubs haven't as far as crowds go.

Also , this has not much to do with this. But the Saints playing gome games at the MCG makes more sense geographically lol. And I'd love to see what they could do if they had another era like 2009-2010

 

[Demon13304]

Hawthorn had a 70,000 crowd in round 1, have had two 65,000 plus attendances already this season and had 4 last year.

The Hawks crowds have been pretty resilient (last year we had our best MCG numbers since the three-peat) which is pretty surprising given the Hawks third largest home crowd (up until 2007) was just 55,019.

As for today, looks touch or go 35,000

My bad, I totally forgot about that round 1 crowd which was really good.
In facts despite dropping off , Hawks crowds have held up pretty well, I was moreso just pointing out that your crowds aren't going to be as good as they were when the Hawks were at their peak. Pretty obvious, but gets lost on some people

 

[Hawkk]

As for Melbourne, it's pretty obvious that they are bigger than St Kilda and compete with Hawthorn for the same members and supporters.

Melbourne has drawn 40,000 plus, when firing, against non Victorian clubs which is substantially larger than the Saints, North and Dogs.

Given they have 13 VFL/AFL flags (like Hawthorn), they should be far bigger than the three smaller clubs.

Geelong has always been the outlier given they are not technically a Melbourne club and have vast support in regional Victoria.

There is an argument that the Cats have underachieved in the VFL/AFL given the vast number of minor premierships and dominance in the pre-VFL VFA era.

Should they win the minor premiership this year it will be their 15th in VFL/AFL history.

That said, where Hawthorn gets a jump on the other middling Victorian clubs is interstate support - not just in Tasmania but also Queensland, SA and WA - thanks to the post 1980 era of success

 

[Demon13304]

Hoping for two more for Melbourne this year both against the Pies and Kings Birthday will be high 80s you’d think. 70k against Carlton the only other chance but it won’t get that on a Thursday night.

Hoping for 45K against the Cats this week.

We don't really have any games to compare the Cats game too. The last non-covid affected game at the MCG was in round 1 , 2018 , which drew 54k. Other than that we have no idea what a top 8 Melbourne vs Geelong clash looks like

70% of Melbourne vs Geelong games since 2010 have been in Geelong

 

[ep12]

We don't really have any games to compare the Cats game too. The last non-covid affected game at the MCG was in round 1 , 2018 , which drew 54k. Other than that we have no idea what a top 8 Melbourne vs Geelong clash looks like

I know because we have been sent down the highway almost every year ever.
But, what we do know is that Saturday nights are not great for drawing massive crowds and its much harder for Geelong people to get home to Geelong after night games in Melbourne.
30K of us and 15K of them would be my expectation with a few neutrals.

That 54K was a round 1 at the same time that the F1 race was on which doesnt really help.

 

[Hawkk]

We don't really have any games to compare the Cats game too. The last non-covid affected game at the MCG was in round 1 , 2018 , which drew 54k. Other than that we have no idea what a top 8 Melbourne vs Geelong clash looks like

Finals attendance is largely irrelevant to drawing power, but worth pointing out that Melbourne v Geelong drew 90,000-plus in 2018

 

[RandB]

H&A crowds above 70k since 97:
Melbourne - 17
Geelong - 22
Hawthorn - 25

Updated for the Tigers game.

 

[Demon13304]

Updated for the Tigers game.

Updated Geelong as well.

Still though, 17 nots bad. And we could hit the 20mark with games against Collingwood x2 and possibly the Bomber if both teams form holds up.

I get overly defensive about this stuff, but for a club that cops it a lot, I think we do well for crowds and its good to see that we've been a part of some big games and crowds

 

[RandB]

Updated Geelong as well.

Still though, 17 nots bad. And we could hit the 20mark with games against Collingwood x2 and possibly the Bomber if both teams form holds up.

I get overly defensive about this stuff, but for a club that cops it a lot, I think we do well for crowds and its good to see that we've been a part of some big games and crowds

Yep, Geelong update as well, was about to edit that. Their highest 'Home' crowd ever.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I know that , hence why I said it. But they've still had plenty of opportunities to get those numbers but they just haven't. One that comes to mind is Western Bulldogs season opener against Collingwood in 2017, after winning a flag, got 66k. In fact, since 1997, they've had 31 games at the MCG against a big 4 club (and then even more against non big 4 clubs). That's plenty of opportunity. I haven't had a look at North or Saints numbers ,i imagine it would be similar.

I know it's not the fairest comparison considering we play a lot more games at the MCG. If WB, North and Stkilda had as many games at the MCG, I'm sure a few 70k+ games would've happened but I really don't think it wouldve been as much as 16 times. I still think there's a point to be made that Melbourne have been involved in some of the bigger games of the season whereas those clubs haven't as far as crowds go.

Also , this has not much to do with this. But the Saints playing gome games at the MCG makes more sense geographically lol. And I'd love to see what they could do if they had another era like 2009-2010

This is entirely to playing MCG games in marquee times against Marquee opposition though. The benefit of the MCG and not the size of the club.

It's not as if the Dogs haven't show up when given the opportunity in similar marquee slots (e.g. 47k vs North in the inaugural Good Friday game). You play that Good Friday game against Carlton at MCG and the crowd is 80k or whatever.

Dogs fans also showed up to their first home game in 2017 where 42k showed up to unfurl the flag.

A fairer comparison of independent crowds against interstate teams shows Melbourne in a bottom 4 with Dogs, North and Saints. They wouldn't be selling home games to NT if they got bigger MCG crowds vs interstate teams. E.g. 27k vs Freo and Port at home in good timeslots in 2019 a year after making the prelim.

 

[narch41]

As for Melbourne, it's pretty obvious that they are bigger than St Kilda and compete with Hawthorn for the same members and supporters.

Melbourne has drawn 40,000 plus, when firing, against non Victorian clubs which is substantially larger than the Saints, North and Dogs.

Recency bias at play. St Kilda drew over 40k against interstate clubs when it was at the top end of the ladder in the 2000s.

H&A crowds above 70k since 97:
Melbourne - 17
Geelong - 23
Hawthorn - 25

I would wager that most, if not nearly all of the 17 were on the Kings Birthday public holiday or day before Anzac Day. We will never know what St Kilda, North or the Dogs would draw in those games because those clubs don’t host games at the MCG and the AFL has decided to create these locked-in “blockbuster” games held at the MCG in order to fulfil its contractual obligation. For what it’s worth, the last time St Kilda hosted a Queens Birthday game in 1998 the crowd was 71,488.

 

[Hawkk]

Recency bias at play. St Kilda drew over 40k against interstate clubs when it was at the top end of the ladder in the 2000s.


I would wager that most, if not nearly all of the 17 were on the Kings Birthday public holiday or day before Anzac Day. We will never know what St Kilda, North or the Dogs would draw in those games because those clubs don’t host games at the MCG and the AFL has decided to create these locked-in “blockbuster” games held at the MCG in order to fulfil its contractual obligation. For what it’s worth, the last time St Kilda hosted a Queens Birthday game in 1998 the crowd was 71,488.

True - 52539 and 46103 both against the Lions (at Docklands) in 2004 and 2005.

At the same Melbourne has drawn several 40,000 and 50,000 attendances against Brisbane and Sydney.

And Hawthorn, two 70,000 attendances against the Swans plus another three 60,000 attendances also against the Swans. Add to that several 50,000 plus attendances against the Swans and Eagles plus a dozen 40,000 plus attendances against the Swans, Eagles, Crows and Dockers.

The Ross Lyon era destroyed the Saints crowds and they never recovered - 35,000 plus crowds in the Thomas era (2004-06) dropped by 5,000 to 10,000 despite ‘Saints Footy’ yielding back to back Grand Finals.

 

[Demon13304]

This is entirely to playing MCG games in marquee times against Marquee opposition though. The benefit of the MCG and not the size of the club.

It's not as if the Dogs haven't show up when given the opportunity in similar marquee slots (e.g. 47k vs North in the inaugural Good Friday game). You play that Good Friday game against Carlton at MCG and the crowd is 80k or whatever.

Dogs fans also showed up to their first home game in 2017 where 42k showed up to unfurl the flag.

A fairer comparison of independent crowds against interstate teams shows Melbourne in a bottom 4 with Dogs, North and Saints. They wouldn't be selling home games to NT if they got bigger MCG crowds vs interstate teams. E.g. 27k vs Freo and Port at home in good timeslots in 2019 a year after making the prelim.

I did say I'm sure they would've had 70k crowds if they played as much as we did ay the MCG, I just don't think it would've been as much as 17. Even if it is an event game, it's still people turning up as well and Melbourne (and Collingwood, Richmond putting effort into making it a big game.

I brought up that 66k cos it wouldve been a great opportunity to get huge crowd against the biggest afl club (albeit as an away team) and it still didn't reach 70k, despite winning the flag. Its still a good crowd nonetheless.


Also that 27k in 2019 against Port is straight up misimformation. It was 38866 against Port. In comparison, the highest WB have gotten against Port is 23k, in comparison Melbourne has had more than 23k against Port 4 times.

The Freo crowd, yeah wasn't great. That prelim means nothing at that point considering it was round 14 and Melbourne were 3rd last on the ladder and it was probably the most disappointing shocking season I could remember

 

[Billy ray]

Not that bad. Looks worse on TV

Always does as the mostly empty outer wing between the arcs are the $45/75 ones

 

[sverik25]

True - 52539 and 46103 both against the Lions (at Docklands) in 2004 and 2005.

At the same Melbourne has drawn several 40,000 and 50,000 attendances against Brisbane and Sydney.

And Hawthorn, two 70,000 attendances against the Swans plus another three 60,000 attendances also against the Swans. Add to that several 50,000 plus attendances against the Swans and Eagles plus a dozen 40,000 plus attendances against the Swans, Eagles, Crows and Dockers.

The Ross Lyon era destroyed the Saints crowds and they never recovered - 35,000 plus crowds in the Thomas era (2004-06) dropped by 5,000 to 10,000 despite ‘Saints Footy’ yielding back to back Grand Finals.

As others have pointed out though, you can't compare crowds at Docklands with crowds at the MCG. Too many factors mean similar matches get higher crowds at the MCG (MCC, more AFL members, larger neutral contingent etc.).

The comparison between Melbourne and St Kilda would be possible if they both played home games at the same venue.

 

[Air_Chester]

The Ross Lyon era destroyed the Saints crowds and they never recovered - 35,000 plus crowds in the Thomas era (2004-06) dropped by 5,000 to 10,000 despite ‘Saints Footy’ yielding back to back Grand Finals.

Bit harsh to lay the blame at the feet of Ross Lyon there, Hawkk.

The drop in Saints attendances coincided not only with their fall down the ladder, but also a large drop in overall Docklands attendances for all clubs.

Average Docklands attendance for all clubs in 2005 was 37,100 in 2005. By 2015 it had dropped to 28,301.

 

[2010premier]

Always does as the mostly empty outer wing between the arcs are the $45/75 ones

Yeah and in the arvo the sun is right in your eyes. I was at Carrara today crowd wasn’t that bad considering a big day of junior footy on at the same time and that west coast have very little support in QLD

 

[Hawkk]

Bit harsh to lay the blame at the feet of Ross Lyon there, Hawkk.

The drop in Saints attendances coincided not only with their fall down the ladder, but also a large drop in overall Docklands attendances for all clubs.

Average Docklands attendance for all clubs in 2005 was 37,100 in 2005. By 2015 it had dropped to 28,301.

That explains post 2012, but what of 2008 (PF), 2009 (Minor Premier and GF), 2010 (GF) and 2011 (EF).

The Dockland drop off didn't fully take hold until after the first Ross Lyon era

 

[narch41]

True - 52539 and 46103 both against the Lions (at Docklands) in 2004 and 2005.

At the same Melbourne has drawn several 40,000 and 50,000 attendances against Brisbane and Sydney.

And Hawthorn, two 70,000 attendances against the Swans plus another three 60,000 attendances also against the Swans. Add to that several 50,000 plus attendances against the Swans and Eagles plus a dozen 40,000 plus attendances against the Swans, Eagles, Crows and Dockers.

The Ross Lyon era destroyed the Saints crowds and they never recovered - 35,000 plus crowds in the Thomas era (2004-06) dropped by 5,000 to 10,000 despite ‘Saints Footy’ yielding back to back Grand Finals.

Yep, as well as 40k against West Coast in 2006 and 46k against Sydney in 1999.

There were still fairly strong crowds under Ross 1.0, it’s what’s happened since then that has devastated St Kilda’s drawing power. The 69k against Collingwood on the Thursday during school term earlier this year does make me think that if the team ever does return to the top 4, crowds will be at least as good as Melbournes have been.

Certainly never as strong as Hawthorn’s though, that ship has well and truly sailed over the last 50 years.

 

[The Tilt]

Haw-Sydney: 38,052

 

[manicmagpie]

I think this is just enough to get the record for most people to the MCG in one round.

Also enough to bring the round total over 400k.

 

[Demon13304]

Recency bias at play. St Kilda drew over 40k against interstate clubs when it was at the top end of the ladder in the 2000s.


I would wager that most, if not nearly all of the 17 were on the Kings Birthday public holiday or day before Anzac Day. We will never know what St Kilda, North or the Dogs would draw in those games because those clubs don’t host games at the MCG and the AFL has decided to create these locked-in “blockbuster” games held at the MCG in order to fulfil its contractual obligation. For what it’s worth, the last time St Kilda hosted a Queens Birthday game in 1998 the crowd was 71,488.

That is true, but I really think that even though they're "event" games , that's still big crowds showing up and shouldn't be discounted completely. and I have stated this multiple time that I do believe those 3 clubs would've had some big crowds at the MCG if they played there more regularly, I just don't think it would've been as much as 17. As an example, I brought up WB having played 31 games at the MCG since 1997 (home/away) against big 4 clubs (and even more against non big 4 teams) have never had a 70k+ crowd. And I brought up their season opening game against Collingwood in 2017 in which 66k showed up. Still a good crowd, but surely that's just about the ceiling considering they were reigning premiers and were playing against the biggest Club.


Look I'm just getting defensive over rhe Dees because we really cop it all the time, when I think that our crowds are good for the size of the club and we've been a part of some really big games, in which 17 of them have had more than 70k show up. Im just talking our crowds up because no one else does.

 

[Hawkk]

Yep, as well as 40k against West Coast in 2006 and 46k against Sydney in 1999.

There were still fairly strong crowds under Ross 1.0, it’s what’s happened since then that has devastated St Kilda’s drawing power. The 69k against Collingwood on the Thursday during school term earlier this year does make me think that if the team ever does return to the top 4, crowds will be at least as good as Melbournes have been.

Certainly never as strong as Hawthorn’s though, that ship has well and truly sailed over the last 50 years.

Fair point. I forgot West Coast 2006. Don't get me wrong St Kilda are not a small club, but I'm just surprised by the extent that the crowds have fallen away in 20 years - when they were top 3 in the league