Traded Liam Baker - Now a West Coast Eagle

[Jeremias]

Time for some house cleaning.

1) Do not drag discussions or individual posts over here from other threads or boards.

Feel free to respond to those posts wherever they were posted, if you so choose.

2) Enough with the personal attacks. It’s a long season and this one may go the distance, so if you want to remain a part of the discussion, do it respectfully.

We will use thread bans and infractions if necessary.

 

[THE_GUN]

I'm not expecting Freo to offer more than Richmond.

I'm expecting Baker to walk out on Richmond because he wants to win more games.

Then you are delusional

Baker has won enough games and would like to win more but he is not moving for the same $$$
This will be his last contract to cash in and will have a great offer from his current club and will need an uplift to move
Fremantle are not a top 4 team and no guarantee's the coach will be there in 12 -24 months time

If he is leaving its $$$

 

[Taylor]

Well he still might, but players leave for many personal reasons, what a silly post.

The loyalty being such a strong feature should override that though, given how loyal he is.

 

[THE_GUN]

Future 1st to GC for #8, #9, #20?

Maybe have a think about that again

 

[Taylor]

Then you are delusional

Baker has won enough games and would like to win more but he is not moving for the same $$$
This will be his last contract to cash in and will have a great offer from his current club and will need an uplift to move
Fremantle are not a top 4 team and no guarantee's the coach will be there in 12 -24 months time

If he is leaving its $$$

But Richmond can pay him more than Fremantle?

 

[poshman]

Is he a small defender? He plays midfield at the moment and holds his own.. plays up forward too.
Can you name a small defender that has kicked 50 goals in just over a 100 games?
He made the under 22 All Australian team.
The average AFL wage is about to tick over 400k (that salary cap divided by players on the list) … 800k a year is not that much money for a player who regularly finishes high in best and fairest awards … including in premiership years.
He’d be in top 8 players picked in any AFL side and one of the first picked for WA is you ever field a team in the near future.
Don’t under sell Baker, it only proves you ignorance.

I like Baker but saying he would be a top 8 player in any AFL side is a stretch.

Given you need 4 Key positions around the ground. A rebounding defender and then mids, you are saying he would be a top four mid picked in any aide in the league?

He might be a top 12 picked player in most sides.

And I would be happy for us to get him.

 

[THE_GUN]

So why hasn't he extended his contract with Richmond then?

And he still may extend

Last time he was in this position both Eagles & Freo were all over him with offers to return

"Liam Baker has put pen to paper on a new contract, keeping him at Richmond until at least the end of the 2024 season."
Date :
Jul 28, 2022, 9:11am

 

[Taylor]

And he still may extend

Last time he was in this position both Eagles & Freo were all over him with offers to return

"Liam Baker has put pen to paper on a new contract, keeping him at Richmond until at least the end of the 2024 season."
Date :
Jul 28, 2022, 9:11am

So what is the narrative if he leaves? That Richmond didn't want to pay their loyal servant market value or that Fremantle had more money that Richmond to spend, which they don't?

 

[THE_GUN]

He can make more money at Richmond or West Coast, so why pick Freo if it's not about winning more games?

Has he picked freo ?

 

[poshman]

Then you are delusional

Baker has won enough games and would like to win more but he is not moving for the same $$$
This will be his last contract to cash in and will have a great offer from his current club and will need an uplift to move
Fremantle are not a top 4 team and no guarantee's the coach will be there in 12 -24 months time

If he is leaving its $$$

There is no guarantee any coach will be in place in 24 months. Longmuir was just extended and we are a team in the 8, one of the youngest in the league and with a lot of growth to come. Richmond are one of my favourite teams, but it is fair to say there is a long rebuild ahead.

And that shouldn't be mocked as you won the lot three times. You had a ridiculous era. That should be celebrated and it is over. How long will Dusty continue? Will Lynch be able to get on the park regularly? Who will the core midfield be? There are a lot of questions in tigerland, and it isn't ridiculous to suggest that for the remainder of Bakers prime (2025-2029) freo will be winning more games that the Tigers.

 

[THE_GUN]

So what is the narrative if he leaves? That Richmond didn't want to pay their loyal servant market value or that Fremantle had more money that Richmond to spend, which they don't?

You are all over the shop now.

The guy has not left and has a good contract infront of him and from whats being reported fremantle are sucking up his exhaust pipe more than any other club and have already put an offer to him in May.

But I'll let you know his 'Narrative' when i have lunch with him sunday afternood.
whats your number ill get him to call you

 

[Morro]

The loyalty being such a strong feature should override that though, given how loyal he is.

Loyalty to a club over family?

The reality is, if he has chosen Freo, they and his management would already be aware of the trade cost and clubs that convince players to choose them and then no pay up, dont get chosen too often. Maybe thats why so few players actually end up choosing Freo? Time will tell.

All that said, Cotch's comments on offers from out West, are the most real and believable made in the media so far, so you guys must be offering god money

 

[THE_GUN]

There is no guarantee any coach will be in place in 24 months. Longmuir was just extended and we are a team in the 8, one of the youngest in the league and with a lot of growth to come. Richmond are one of my favourite teams, but it is fair to say

The amount of times i have read & Heard that statement
Carlton have been saying it since the start of the century , Bombers and even Freo but - Nothing

GCS / GWS have been chockers with young talent and been around for 10-15 years and still nothing
Richmond were bottom of the ladder and all the picks were given to the new sides in 2010

for all we know Gold coast could have the foundations of the next Dynasty team with the amount of talent they currently have and in the pipeline for the next 5-10 years and clubs like Fremantle , carlton could be the brides maids

Collingwood were last then won the flag : without being the youngest team but more closer to the oldest team
No Guarantee's

But atleast we had the recent Dynasty of 3 flags fresh

 

[Tugga27]

I think you massively under estimate the players wishes and demands

Fremantle approaches the player who sets out what he is looking for and the club assess if it suits them and puts a offer
Manager indicates to the new club his client will come only if its a smooth process and a fair trade and wont be compromised and wants to leave his premiership team and team mates as well as the staff on good terms.

Then its upto the club to make that deal happen as they agreed
Thats exactly what happened in the CCj trade and will occur again

You guys really are ignoring Bakers character and loyalty
He was given a chance as a rookie after being over looked in his draft year and 2 years running by the WA clubs andgiven a chance by Richmond as a rookie and developed into a fantastic leader that walks the walk.

Let me ask you this do you seriously believe a player like Mundy , Walters or even Treacy would just let "his manager deal with it" without having a say as to what his current club gets ?

If you do then clearly not worth responding any further

I never said the departing player wouldn't have a say.
Of course they would like their old club to get a fair trade.

But the way you keep crapping on about Bakers loyalty, you're making it sound as if he's doing the deal and if he doesn't like it, he will stay.

If you believe that, you're in Laa Laa land.

 

[Taylor]

Collingwood were last then won the flag : without being the youngest team but more closer to the oldest team
No Guarantee's

The general idea is that more mature teams are better and more competitive, so when a younger team is competitive and will get more competitive when they mature fully they will be better.

That's the general idea.

 

[juss]

The value of the deal offered will be the largest contributing factor, I don't think Freo will be offering as much money as both Richmond and WC can and the intangible value of leaving a club doing poorly to move to one doing far better is the secret herbs and spices that make it a good deal for Baker.

Richmond can Baker a fortune for a long time.

And yes I will continue to kick the tyres because Richmond supporters in the actual media are trying to float WC as an option so they can bring your first round pick into value discussions.

I remember media in Vic suggesting Cerra was worth a second round pick when the time came. Stuff that. Players leaving WA get undervalued due to media pressure and players leaving Victoria to WA get overvalued to do media pressure.

Are we still talking about Freo here? Come on...

Yes you're looking better this season, but that's pretty transient. Freo are consistently one of the flakiest and most unreliable sides in the comp. Freo finished below the Tigers as recent as last year. You're hardly a success on any metric as a club. If you were saying he's moving for reliable chances and shots at a flag and said he was going to a Geelong or Sydney type club I'd pay that, but Freo? You're just as likely to miss finals with a bad run next year as you are to make them, when comparing the two clubs, this is the first season you look substantially better than us in a while.

If we'd had a better injury run this year I'm pretty convinced we'd have 2-3 more wins and the gap between the sides would be relatively marginal given Freo are 5-3, and that's just a one year sample.

I think he's going back to WA for 2 reasons,
1. He returns to his home state which has obvious pull for many reasons.
2. The offer will be a very good one, players don't move for less money, certainly not to a club like Freo because of "opportunities for success".

I think he'll stay at Richmond for 2 reasons if he does
1. It's easier to keep players than acquire them / players are often quite loyal and stay around unless they're grossly unhappy or not getting opportunity
2. We offer a deal that is close enough (or more) than a competing club's offer.

 

[Taylor]

Are we still talking about Freo here? Come on...

Yes you're looking better this season, but that's pretty transient. Freo are consistently one of the flakiest and most unreliable sides in the comp. Freo finished below the Tigers as recent as last year. You're hardly a success on any metric as a club. If you were saying he's moving for reliable chances and shots at a flag and said he was going to a Geelong or Sydney type club I'd pay that, but Freo? You're just as likely to miss finals with a bad run next year as you are to make them, when comparing the two clubs, this is the first season you look substantially better than us in a while.

If we'd had a better injury run this year I'm pretty convinced we'd have 2-3 more wins and the gap between the sides would be relatively marginal given Freo are 5-3, and that's just a one year sample.

I think he's going back to WA for 2 reasons,
1. He returns to his home state which has obvious pull for many reasons.
2. The offer will be a very good one, players don't move for less money, certainly not to a club like Freo because of "opportunities for success".

I think he'll stay at Richmond for 2 reasons if he does
1. It's easier to keep players than acquire them / players are often quite loyal and stay around unless they're grossly unhappy or not getting opportunity
2. We offer a deal that is close enough (or more) than a competing club's offer.

That's a very reasonable take, especially when Richmond have the ability to pay Baker so much more money.

I presume his signature with the Tigers is imminent.

 

[Morro]

That's a very reasonable take, especially when Richmond have the ability to pay Baker so much more money.

I presume his signature with the Tigers is imminent.

do we?

 

[ubiquitous226]

The amount of times i have read & Heard that statement
Carlton have been saying it since the start of the century , Bombers and even Freo but - Nothing

GCS / GWS have been chockers with young talent and been around for 10-15 years and still nothing
Richmond were bottom of the ladder and all the picks were given to the new sides in 2010

for all we know Gold coast could have the foundations of the next Dynasty team with the amount of talent they currently have and in the pipeline for the next 5-10 years and clubs like Fremantle , carlton could be the brides maids

Collingwood were last then won the flag : without being the youngest team but more closer to the oldest team
No Guarantee's

But atleast we had the recent Dynasty of 3 flags fresh

And we're all so glad you've come through that era so humble and enlightened about trades.

We'll argue back and forth ad nauseum around what his value is.
I personally would love Baker to stay at Richmond but if he doesn't sign in the next few weeks that just doesn't seem likely.
It would take other pieces to move for West Coast to get involved, it just doesn't make sense for them right now unless they really value a standard setter if Yeo, Gaff, Darling, etc. all exit stage left at the end of the season.

How I think about these situations;

• Every trade has its own factors and pressures at play
• Contracted status makes a big difference to negotiations, however Fremantle has been known to be generous when trading for other teams' uncontracted players and a hardass when other teams take our contracted players
• Previous trades are relevant as general input, but see above items
• PSD almost always only serves as a limit for value paid by the receiving team (unless you're Adelaide or Carlton)
• Gold Coast are not a good example for anything trade related

 

[juss]

That's a very reasonable take, especially when Richmond have the ability to pay Baker so much more money.

I presume his signature with the Tigers is imminent.

I don't think it's imminent, I think it'll be on hold until end of season, he'll see if there are any offers one way or the other that are too good to refuse. Generally speaking if he keeps playing well his contract value will either hold or go up, so low risk if he doesn't sign yet.

Sure if he does an ACL or an achilles or some 12 month injury between now and signing then yeh he's cost himself a few bucks and clubs won't up their offers, but that's a gamble he might feel comfortable taking given he's pretty durable.

 

[poshman]

The amount of times i have read & Heard that statement
Carlton have been saying it since the start of the century , Bombers and even Freo but - Nothing

GCS / GWS have been chockers with young talent and been around for 10-15 years and still nothing
Richmond were bottom of the ladder and all the picks were given to the new sides in 2010

for all we know Gold coast could have the foundations of the next Dynasty team with the amount of talent they currently have and in the pipeline for the next 5-10 years and clubs like Fremantle , carlton could be the brides maids

Collingwood were last then won the flag : without being the youngest team but more closer to the oldest team
No Guarantee's

But atleast we had the recent Dynasty of 3 flags fresh

Do you think that Richmond will win more games between 25-29 than Freo?

If not then it would be feasible that leaving to go to a team that is likely to win more games is a reality.

I congratulated you on the three flags. Did you miss that part?

 

[Morro]

Do you think that Richmond will win more games between 25-29 than Freo?

If not then it would be feasible that leaving to go to a team that is likely to win more games is a reality.

I congratulated you on the three flags. Did you miss that part?

Who really knows

Alot can change very quickly.

 

[juss]

Who really knows

Alot can change very quickly.

People can't predict the upcoming season with much success even in the first few rounds of that year.
2029 is like throwing darts at a dartboard. Hell I'd argue if you asked people to put forward 2025 ladders they'd get a lot wrong.

If you're basing decision based on prospects 5 years from now, you're gambling.

Remember Adam Treloar's genius move to join the Pies instead of the Tiges based on future prospects? How'd that end up?

 

[poshman]

Who really knows

Alot can change very quickly.

No one knows, but, if you polled all of BigFooty I doubt you would have many who would say Richmond will win more than Freo in the next four years. And the is fine, you have three flags to show for your time at the top.

 

[poshman]

People can't predict the upcoming season with much success even in the first few rounds of that year.
2029 is like throwing darts at a dartboard. Hell I'd argue if you asked people to put forward 2025 ladders they'd get a lot wrong.

If you're basing decision based on prospects 5 years from now, you're gambling.

Remember Adam Treloar's genius move to join the Pies instead of the Tiges based on future prospects? How'd that end up?

Yes but you are moving the goal posts to make your argument. What was the respective ages of the teams last week?

2024 Freo will win more games than Richmond.
2025 I would say Freo.
2026 Freo.
2027 Freo
2028 Contentious
2029 Richmond (if everything is perfect in your rebuild and you replace Dusty and Lynch with players at their level).

So over that time frame who would win more games?

So no, I was not basing someone else's decision on season 2029. I said that over the next four years Freo would win more games than Richmond. Do you think that is likely or unlikely?

 

[juss]

Yes but you are moving the goal posts to make your argument. What was the respective ages of the teams last week?

2024 Freo will win more games than Richmond.
2025 I would say Freo.
2026 Freo.
2027 Freo
2028 Contentious
2029 Richmond (if everything is perfect in your rebuild and you replace Dusty and Lynch with players at their level).

So over that time frame who would win more games?

So no, I was not basing someone else's decision on season 2029. I said that over the next four years Freo would win more games than Richmond. Do you think that is likely or unlikely?

It could be likely, but that likelyhood might only be 55-60% across that 5 year period, so it's marginal
Just so many factors and variables
As I said as recent as last year, Freo finished below Richmond.

2025 I'd say Freo more likely, a bad injury run and a tough draw and Richmond get a good injury run and an easier draw and that could flip.

2026 and beyond, darts at a dartboard, it genuinely is not much more than that.

You think your predictions are accurate now, but history says no one can really predict accurately. It's not a problem with your predictions per se, it's that the game is unpredictable!