USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

...

a) Harris will continue with fracking. How is her stance in any practical sense different from Trump?

b) Harris has advertised herself as being equally ruthless in the war against immigrants as Trump. Here is an example:

"Vice President Kamala Harris campaigned in Douglas, Arizona, where she promised to “work across the aisle” with Republicans to pass multi-billion dollar legislation that will greatly increase the size of the border police while drastically curtailing the democratic rights of workers and their families in the US and internationally."

Campaigning in Arizona, Kamala Harris pledges to “work across the aisle” to expand border police

Hours after Trump promised to carry out mass deportations of legal immigrants, Harris, who has yet to visit Springfield, Ohio, flew to the US-Mexico border wall where she pledged to adopt virtually all of the Republicans' anti-immigrant agenda.

www.wsws.org

Trump wants to mine National Parks, get rid of environmental protections, support Putin, cut taxes for the rich, spread hate and racism and worse.

 

[IlovethePies]

On this one, how is it going to be achieved in the next week? Total failure to address the reality of the situation.

If you think anything will be resolved in the current election, you are very much mistaken.

This election signals the beginning of an immense social struggle within the US, which will have massive reverberations internationally.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Reminds me of my 20yr old self laughing that the world could be covered in concrete and we would adapt somehow

Even fluttered with a firm of socialism and some of that remains in my support for a Universal Income Benefit, Health and Education safety net

I have read most of Pies posts and admire the passion but I can see them joining the ALP in 10 years

But yes socialism in his world won't happen

The closest we'll get is what is currently happening in Sweden and Norway.

Yet our man equates the Swedish government with Putin ...

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Aren't you just a bubble of positivity.

Should we call it a draw and have no one govern?

The lunatics have escaped from the asylum

 

[SeaOfFire]

The more we discuss or "argue" the point simply increases the opportunity to misinform.

Can you all not see that?

Look at the pages herein, on a ****ing footy forum...a zillion posts from both sides.

All utterly meaningless.

Do I think ANY of you want jackboots and -ism based policies to rule?

No, I don't. And maybe that says more about me.

**** OFF

The lot of you.

Stop arguing points of difference and rather, as we do in Bay 13 on a Saturday arvo, demonstrate how we care about the whole.

Lions v Pies for a GF berth? **** yes, if you are Pies, I'll denigrate you at the footy and here.

That doesn't, ever, and will never, translate beyond the footy.

Stop ****ing bashing each other because all you are doing is giving fuel to the fire of difference - WHERE THERE ISN'T ANY.

Don't buy in to the dominant paradigm - which, in 2024, is like a ****ing jungle and every monkey is yapping at the top of the tallest tree and perceives that as consensus. Don't ****ing add to the division.

Be your own person. Just like you would in Bay 13.

 

[Blue1980]

View attachment 2156941Interesting

Oops https://pitchfork.com/news/68718-puff-daddy-donald-trump-is-a-friend-of-mine/

 

[iDon]

The lunatics have escaped from the asylum

True. You have checked in

 

[LuvtheKangas]

If you think anything will be resolved in the current election, you are very much mistaken.

This election signals the beginning of an immense social struggle within the US, which will have massive reverberations internationally.

Is this deliberate misinterpretation, or are you blinded by your ideology?

I'm the one pointing out that nothing can be done about the current election, other than not choosing the guy who is substantially worse than the other poor choice. This is the reality - it is a practical necessity to choose the lesser of two evils. And it's unhelpful to paint them as equally evil.

The international reverberations will not be anywhere near as severe under the Democrats than they would be under Trump. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

 

[Blue1980]

That guy, that gay guy," Walz joked, chuckling, “Michigan knows that word." He added.

 

[10571z]

Oops https://pitchfork.com/news/68718-puff-daddy-donald-trump-is-a-friend-of-mine/

Still interesting every celebrity they are throwing out has photos with Diddy

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The more we discuss or "argue" the point simply increases the opportunity to misinform.

Can you all not see that?

Look at the pages herein, on a ****ing footy forum...a zillion posts from both sides.

All utterly meaningless.

Do I think ANY of you want jackboots and -ism based policies to rule?

No, I don't. And maybe that says more about me.

**** OFF

The lot of you.

Stop arguing points of difference and rather, as we do in Bay 13 on a Saturday arvo, demonstrate how we care about the whole.

Lions v Pies for a GF berth? **** yes, if you are Pies, I'll denigrate you at the footy and here.

That doesn't, ever, and will never, translate beyond the footy.

Stop ****ing bashing each other because all you are doing is giving fuel to the fire of difference - WHERE THERE ISN'T ANY.

Don't buy in to the dominant paradigm - which, in 2024, is like a ****ing jungle and every monkey is yapping at the top of the tallest tree and perceives that as consensus. Don't ****ing add to the division.

Be your own person. Just like you would in Bay 13.

How about you just go back to Bay 13 with your tail between your legs, and we'll pretend this never happened?

 

[Blue1980]

How's the political science thesis going?

Your well-articulated arguments lack just one necessary element - addressing the current situation in practical terms.

It is laughable to say that this election is not about choosing the lesser of two evils, because it categorically is that. You use a bit of false equivalence to suggest that they are equally evil, but even that is not necessary for your argument. No-one is denying the volatile, dangerous, messy state of the US and world at the moment, but dismissing both parties as disastrous and not worthy of electing ignores the practical reality that the country needs to be governed. You can't just choose neither.

You appear to have deliberately downplayed the relative danger of a Trump v a Harris government. There is a significant gulf between the two.

I also think your socialist utopia outcome is a pipe-dream, both impossible to achieve and far less of a silver bullet than you suggest.

I could imagine a lot of Germans using the same argument in 1932 "all as bad as each other".

The accelerationists of the day would of been mighty impressed how Hitler caused the collapse of the system, eventually, and with such a small price to pay.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Do I think ANY of you want jackboots and -ism based policies to rule?

No, I don't. And maybe that says more about me.

No, you're right. Surely, no-one here wants jackboots and -ism based policies to rule.

Stop ****ing bashing each other because all you are doing is giving fuel to the fire of difference - WHERE THERE ISN'T ANY.

But you're wrong here. Only one of the candidates brings the danger of jackboots and -ism based policies to rule.

Hence the (valid) discussion.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

FireKrakeour

He seems more committed to the centrist movement than you.

Ahh. No worries bro.

 

[IlovethePies]

Reminds me of my 20yr old self laughing that the world could be covered in concrete and we would adapt somehow

Even fluttered with a firm of socialism and some of that remains in my support for a Universal Income Benefit, Health and Education safety net

I have read most of Pies posts and admire the passion but I can see them joining the ALP in 10 years

But yes socialism in his world won't happen

No way I'll be joining the ALP and Albanese's corrupt band of Quantas upgraders in 10 years.

One reason is because the working class hasn't got 10 years left to dilly dally over what it needs to carry out.

 

[IlovethePies]

No, you're right. Surely, no-one here wants jackboots and -ism based policies to rule.



But you're wrong here. Only one of the candidates brings the danger of jackboots and -ism based policies to rule.

Hence the (valid) discussion.

No, this is where you are wrong.
Both candidates bring this threat.
The chronological order may differ (slightly), but the trajectory is the same.

 

[SeaOfFire]

How about you just go back to Bay 13 with your tail between your legs, and we'll pretend this never happened?

Awesome response dude.

I'll see you on the front lines of discord, agitation and demonstration then, when doing so will risk all of your middle class entitlements?

Because I've been there. Do you need proof?

**** off..

 

[Blue1980]

On this one, how is it going to be achieved in the next week? Total failure to address the reality of the situation.

Easy, everyone votes for Jill Stein.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

No, this is where you are wrong.
Both candidates bring this threat.
The chronological order may differ (slightly), but the trajectory is the same.

I whole-heartedly disagree with you.

 

[Saint Shags]

Still interesting every celebrity they are throwing out has photos with Diddy

Celebrity in a photo with another celebrity.
Next you'll be spruiking the idea the Beyonce and Jay are secretly the world cabal and if B doesn't get thanked she has them knocked.
Better yet that there was a basement under a pizza store.

 

[IlovethePies]

Yes, we have a fanatic here.

Zero chance of your final sentence ever being close to reality.

True, I am a fanatical Pies supporter.

But politically, I am extremely realistic.

The only viable perspective for mankind is international socialism.

All alternatives, based on backing Harris against Trump, or pressuring governments to be "more compassionate" are the most unrealistic, and in the end fanatical (in the sense of being fanatically tied to capitalism).

 

[LuvtheKangas]

No way I'll be joining the ALP and Albanese's corrupt band of Quantas upgraders in 10 years.

One reason is because the working class hasn't got 10 years left to dilly dally over what it needs to carry out.

You don't see any practical difficulties in mobilising the international "working class" within a decade?

Like, for a start, do these billions of people even identify as oppressed? Do they have the motive and means to overthrow capitalism? Once capitalism is overthrown, do they have a plan for delivering health and infrastructure to the masses?

 

[LuvtheKangas]

True, I am a fanatical Pies supporter.

But politically, I am extremely realistic.

The only viable perspective for mankind is international socialism.

All alternatives, based on backing Harris against Trump, or pressuring governments to be "more compassionate" are the most unrealistic, and in the end fanatical (in the sense of being fanatically tied to capitalism).

Politically, nothing you have posted is realistic, it's no more than wishful thinking.

 

[SeaOfFire]

True, I am a fanatical Pies supporter.

But politically, I am extremely realistic.

The only viable perspective for mankind is international socialism.

All alternatives, based on backing Harris or Trump, or pressuring governments to be "more compassionate" are the most unrealistic, and in the end fanatical (in the sense of being fanatically tied to capitalism).

Give it up dude.

Only some of us think like this

 

[Blue1980]

True, I am a fanatical Pies supporter.

But politically, I am extremely realistic.

The only viable perspective for mankind is international socialism.

All alternatives, based on backing Harris against Trump, or pressuring governments to be "more compassionate" are the most unrealistic, and in the end fanatical (in the sense of being fanatically tied to capitalism).

The only way this would happen is you backing accelerationism and want it to all collapse ASAP. Then you must hope the mess from it all collapsing isn't too dramatic and something really good comes in place to take the current status quo worldwide.

Seems a heck of a gamble to be backing.