Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[HeathySure]

This is the stupidest argument around. GAS played one of the greatest grand finals ever seen and his team lost... That doesn't take away from the individual players performance lmao.

Was this campaigner a 'matchwinner'?



Known as possibly the greatest of all time yet never managed to win a flag because his team was always a bit too shite while he was out there dominating week in and week out.

you really need to understand you have to WIN a game to be a matchwinner in that particular game, Back to school for you young Walshy

 

[Arr0w]

What an absolute crock.

Notice I've excluded games where there margin was considerable?

Can you repeat that in English

 

[HeathySure]

It's honestly getting hard to tell which one is the dumbest

well given that you cannot understand the definition of what a matchWINner is then we have a winner right?

 

[HeathySure]

In the end i feel sorry for these Blues supporters, they have lost so much in the last 25 years they have changed the definition of matchwinner

 

[Fadge]

Can you repeat that in English

Get to that remedial English class you need to attend, and you might be able to understand a basic sentence.

 

[Fadge]

In the end i feel sorry for these Blues supporters, they have lost so much in the last 25 years they have changed the definition of matchwinner

First they were 'Premiership contenders' in 2024, despite sneaking into the finals in 8th place and going 0 - 60.

Now they have a player on their list who is a 'matchwinner', despite having a 37% win ratio throughout his career and averages less than one 'matchwinning' performance every season across a 12 year career...

How long will it be before they change the definition of 'Premiership Team'?

It just shows how low the bar is at Carlton land...

 

[Arr0w]

Get to that remedial English class you need to attend, and you might be able to understand a basic sentence.

Fixed that abacus yet?

 

[carlton_99]

Yeah, my fav Cripps game was 2022 Rd23. Another one of Cripps big games but wasn't the match winner.

The match winner was Jamie Elliott (again) who held his nerve with 2 Q4 goals to give the Pies the lead, and ultimately the win.

Did Cripps have a better game than Elliott, of course. But Billy was the match winner

What does this have to do with anything I said?

You used player ratings and team record to show that when Cripps has had his best games Carlton have lost more games compared to other players. I said that is due to the fact that a lot of Cripps' best games were when Carlton were a poor team. So if you swapped Cripps for any of those other players and they played a great game we still weren't going to win. So using team records to compare individual matchwinning ability makes no sense. Just like it doesn't make sense to use BnF positions from players that play for different clubs when comparing their level of performance.

 

[carlton_99]

The hilarious thing about this whole conversation is that these very same Collingwood posters who have been saying for years Carlton are too reliant on Cripps and are a "one-man show" are now telling us that Cripps is not a matchwinner. And that there are very few games (7 in 7 years) where Cripps has been the deciding factor in a result.

Makes sense...

 

[Fadge]

The hilarious thing about this whole conversation is that these very same Collingwood posters who have been saying for years Carlton are too reliant on Cripps and are a "one-mam show" are now telling us that Cripps is not a matchwinner. And that there are very few games (7 in 7 years) where Cripps has been the deciding factor in a result.

Makes sense...

The data is there for all to see.

Which other games from the 20 Walshy nominated, in addition to the 7 games I agreed with, would you consider Cripps a 'matchwinner' - in the same way Daicos was for the 8 games I nominated for him (and the 7 games I agreed with Walshy on for Cripps)?

 

[Fadge]

The hilarious thing about this whole conversation is that these very same Collingwood posters who have been saying for years Carlton are too reliant on Cripps and are a "one-mam show" are now telling us that Cripps is not a matchwinner.

Tell us more about this 'one mam show'.

I personally have never regarded Carlton as solely dependent on Cripps - it's long been their top 5 - Cripps, Curnow, Weitering, Walsh and McKay. That has recently extended to 6 with the emergence of De Koning.

 

[carlton_99]

The data is there for all to see.

Which other games from the 20 Walshy nominated, in addition to the 7 games I agreed with, would you consider Cripps a 'matchwinner' - in the same way Daicos was for the 8 games I nominated for him (and the 7 games I agreed with Walshy on for Cripps)?

You picking and choosing what data points to ignore and what to include is not proper data analysis.

 

[carlton_99]

Tell us more about this 'one mam show'.

I personally have never regarded Carlton as solely dependent on Cripps - it's long been their top 5 - Cripps, Curnow, Weitering, Walsh and McKay. That has recently extended to 6 with the emergence of De Koning.

You have never heard people say over the years Carlton are too reliant on Cripps and that if you stop Cripps you stop Carlton? Please tell me you are being facetious

 

[Fadge]

You picking and choosing what data points to ignore and what to include is not proper data analysis.

You mean the 'reasonable person'?

Come on - highlight the game/s I missed where Cripps should be regarded as a matchwinner, from the 13 games I disagreed with Walshy on...

 

[carlton_99]

You mean the 'reasonable person'?

Come on - highlight the game/s I missed where Cripps should be regarded as a matchwinner, from the 13 games I disagreed with Walshy on...

You are not the "reasonable person" when it comes to anything Carlton related. Even you must know that.

And once again I am not rewatching 20 games - I see that as an incredible waste of my time. The fact is you asked for a specific poster to give you a list. They did and then you suddenly got to be the sole arbiter on what a matchwinning performance is.

 

[Fadge]

You have never heard people say over the years Carlton are too reliant on Cripps and that if you stop Cripps you stop Carlton? Please tell me you are being facetious

If that's the case, teams have done a pretty good job of stopping Cripps over the years...

Oh, hang on...

 

[Fadge]

You are not the "reasonable person" when it comes to anything Carlton related. Even you must know that.

And once again I am not rewatching 20 games - I see that as an incredible waste of my time. The fact is you asked for a specific poster to give you a list. They did and then you suddenly got to be the sole arbiter on what a matchwinning performance is.

As I said earlier, you don't need to rematch every game to determine whether or not a player was a matchwinner.

To highlight the 8 games I did for Daicos, I simply filtered the season fixtures on afl.com.au to Collingwood games, looked at each of the games scorelines, recalled which games I thought Daicos was the matchwinner in, and reviewed the stats and match reports to compliment my memory.

If Cripps was a regular matchwinner for Carlton, and you've watched most of their games across his career - you should be able to do the same thing.

I'm not asking you to reinvent the wheel.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You mean the 'reasonable person'?

Come on - highlight the game/s I missed where Cripps should be regarded as a matchwinner, from the 13 games I disagreed with Walshy on...

You are still yet to explain to us why those 13 games were dismissed.

No criteria given, just baseless drivel from you pretending to be the arbiter on the matter.

20 games from Crippa and only 8 produced for Nicky

 

[carlton_99]

As I said earlier, you don't need to rematch every game to determine whether or not a player was a matchwinner.

To highlight the 8 games I did for Daicos, I simply filtered the season fixtures on afl.com.au to Collingwood games, looked at each of the games scorelines, recalled which games I thought Daicos was the matchwinner in, and reviewed the stats and match reports to compliment my memory.

If Cripps was a regular matchwinner for Carlton, and you've watched most of their games across his career - you should be able to do the same thing.

I'm not asking you to reinvent the wheel.

As I said I don't base my evaluations of a matchwinning performance on just stats. It's your right to do that if that's what you want.

 

[Fadge]

And once again I am not rewatching 20 games - I see that as an incredible waste of my time. The fact is you asked for a specific poster to give you a list. They did and then you suddenly got to be the sole arbiter on what a matchwinning performance is.

And what is this 'sole arbiter' rubbish?

You can't appreciate that a 'reasonable person' wouldn't consider a single player a 'matchwinner' when their team beats a bottom placed team by 10 to 20 goals, with the winning team having 9 of the best 10 players on the ground?

 

[Fadge]

You are still yet to explain to us why those 13 games were dismissed.

It's been explained.

Multiple times by multiple posters.

Not that it really should need to be explained.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

well given that you cannot understand the definition of what a matchWINner is then we have a winner right?

Go read it again lmao. I said you can be a matchwinner even if your team loses a lot over your career.

Harry Sheezel can still be a match winner when he plays a critical role in Norths few wins for the year despite them losing an enormous amount of games outside of that.

 

[Fadge]

As I said I don't base my evaluations of a matchwinning performance on just stats. It's your right to do that if that's what you want.

Nor do I.

As I said - I recalled each of the games, and supported my recollection by referencing the stats AND excerpts from the match report from the game.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It's been explained.

Multiple times by multiple posters.

Not that it really should need to be explained.

No... It really hasn't...

Why was Cripps game vs Richmond Rd 1 2022 dismissed as a 'non match winning performance'?

30 and 3 goals in a game he pretty much turned on his own in the last quarter

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

20>8 Nicky still coming in 2nd to the mighty Crippa as always.

Still waiting on the other 18 performances to be listed