Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[DangerousD]

We are 5-10 years way from competeing for a flag and that's if we get it right

This can’t be true, im with you on the coaching issues, the dump kicks out of D50 and bombing blindly in to F50 are garbage, insert who you think the best coach in the AFL is and ask if this would be still an issue. We have good players but no game plan, an actual coach who can see what we can all see would turn things around straight away.

We have a chance come seasons end to clear some older players out who aren’t performing and to try and move on some bad contracts, there are free agents available who will help address some of our issues, not all is lost.

 

[Soapy V]

I'm going to hazard a guess you didn't see it much in the 3 years prior to that either?

Teague wasn't any better. He was take the game on and didn't worry about defence at all
Bolton was the opposite. He was structure, structure, structure which i was okay with but he was doing it with a bunch of kids that weren't physically ready and needed development first. He really held back their natural development IMO

Overall I think our coaching selections from Pagan onwards have been very poor

 

[Juice030103]

Not me

It hit home for me last night that we aren't good enough. Effort for 4 quarters was great. Can't question it

Issue is game plan/structure and bottom end talent. We just aren't good enough to compete with the top teams and that really saddens me. We are 5-10 years way from competeing for a flag and that's if we get it right

Agree with most of what u have been saying but barring west coast no team is that far away

Comp is that even all we need is a few changes

 

[Soapy V]

Agree with most of what u have been saying but barring west coast no team is that far away

Comp is that even all we need is a few changes

Tigers are

 

[Stamos]

Teague wasn't any better. He was take the game on and didn't worry about defence at all
Bolton was the opposite. He was structure, structure, structure which i was okay with but he was doing it with a bunch of kids that weren't physically ready and needed development first. He really held back their natural development IMO

Overall I think our coaching selections from Pagan onwards have been very poor

My impression is that Bolts was actually a decent selection for where we were, but didn't have enough support, especially after Craig left.
And the start of 2019 was such a disaster that he had to go. Seemed to completely forget that winning games was still important.

 

[Soapy V]

This can’t be true, im with you on the coaching issues, the dump kicks out of D50 and bombing blindly in to F50 are garbage, insert who you think the best coach in the AFL is and ask if this would be still an issue. We have good players but no game plan, an actual coach who can see what we can all see would turn things around straight away.

We have a chance come seasons end to clear some older players out who aren’t performing and to try and move on some bad contracts, there are free agents available who will help address some of our issues, not all is lost.

I think it's the coaching. Either they need to change their thinking or we need new ones

I still believe coached properly this list could be a threat but it needs to happen quickly as our better players aren't getting any younger

 

[Soapy V]

My impression is that Bolts was actually a decent selection for where we were, but didn't have enough support, especially after Craig left.
And the start of 2019 was such a disaster that he had to go. Seemed to completely forget that winning games was still important.

I really liked Bolton. He was so good with the younger players. I agree, support was poor. He just went to far and no one pulled him up. The younger players became very reactive. When Teague came in and released them it was like a relief. Issue is it's all he had

 

[Stamos]

I really liked Bolton. He was so good with the younger players. I agree, support was poor. He just went to far and no one pulled him up. The younger players became very reactive. When Teague came in and released them it was like a relief. Issue is it's all he had

Yeah.
We should have been a 50/50 winning team in 2019. That was the level of talent we had, which was proved when Teague took over, and like you said, was nothing but a release.
Starting 1-10 was disastrous.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I refuse to believe that our players are just collectively dumber than other sides, all of these guys have played footy their whole lives and should know how to lead at the ball carrier, lead away from congestion to make space, to not get in the way of other forwards.

Our struggles as you say are because of our terrible game plan

If you aren't sure where to kick it or are always either kicking under pressure or kicking to a teammate under pressure - you will look like a bad kick.

We haven't magically recruited 30 odd players who can't kick (and Hawthorn vice-versa). That's where game plan, and confidence in the plan comes into it.

if I know where my next kick is going that can be executed under less pressure as I'm not delaying that half a second or so to size up my options.

 

[bringdoullback]

I didn't think that Voss could appear anymore deluded but I've just read that he said that Charlie "did his job" and "competed well".

Voss won't bag a player publicly. Don't read too much into that comment.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I wonder how long Hawthorn played with 19 players on the field?

Is this hypothetical / a joke about the umpires / a bad player or is this true?

 

[Coops93]

If you aren't sure where to kick it or are always either kicking under pressure or kicking to a teammate under pressure - you will look like a bad kick.

We haven't magically recruited 30 odd players who can't kick (and Hawthorn vice-versa). That's where game plan, and confidence in the plan comes into it.

if I know where my next kick is going that can be executed under less pressure as I'm not delaying that half a second or so to size up my options.

I partially agree with this, but then the amount of times you see guys wide open waving their arms around only to be spurned in favour of a long bomb to a 3 on 2 makes me doubt that.

There's more to being a good kick than just kicking, vision is a big and underrated part of being a good kick. Seeing the field is a real limitation from our guys

The issue is multi-faceted. Have we recruited 30 odd guys who can't kick? Well, Voss' gameplan was heavily invested in contest and clearance and those sort of players often aren't very good kicks. So yeah I'd say it's actually fair to suggest we've recruited a lot of guys who aren't great kicks. We've recruited valuing the contest and clearance ability, while the Hawks have recruited guys more based on skill and run.

 

[bigblueboy]

Was last night that bad??

Motlop point is a goal and we turn 16 points ahead at half time. Docherty marks in the final minutes of the third quarter and we are potentially in front at 3qrt time.
Last quarter we struggled but it wasn’t for lack of intent.
Thought the game plan and structure held up well - no doubt helped by the conditions … we are never going to match the Hawks game style.
Some really basic errors and conversion were really costly but Hawthon are a very good team.
Lots of scope for improvement - but understand we are hoping rather than expecting some players to step up to the next level.

 

[bigblueboy]

Is this hypothetical / a joke about the umpires / a bad player or is this true?

They had an extra man on the field when Cerra kicked his goal. A 666 breach was paid.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

They had an extra man on the field when Cerra kicked his goal. A 666 breach was paid.

Is that the penalty for an extra man on field? I thought it was stripping points?

 

[Arr0w]

THIS!!!!!
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE UP THE BACK!!!!

Under 17 kids know this without blinking, it's a fallacy that it's poor coaching

 

[kingkingston]

Our game style is so taxing. Players are spent. Everything is so hard for us.

We have too many passengers. Hollands at half back isn't working. 11 possessions and isn't providing us any run and is a poor kick. Fogarty was invisible. Acres too. Compare that to the Hawks wingers who run create and have elite kicking skills.
Our defence is the worst in the league. Structures are terrible.

Lastly list management. Selecting Evans and Haynes in the off season while giving away Kennedy, Martin, Owies and Carroll for a pick in the late 30s was a terrible list management decision. We have no depth.

We should of traded Zac Williams. I don't care for what but he's on 800k this year and next year. I would of given up a second round pick for any takers.
What a disaster he's been.

He has started the season good.............3 goals this season so far, 10 score involvements

 

[CCurnow3picks]

You can downplay a performance without singling or even really criticising a player. For me, it shows a lack of accountability by the coach and MC.

Voss doesn't need to come out and say that Curnow was terrible, but maybe take some ownership for playing an underdone Curnow.

To say that he competed well is just a joke. JSOS competed well. If Charlie had half the heart and desire that JSOS has he'd be on another level.

Yes Charlie didn’t compete at all.

 

[King Cripps]

if Hollands off the HBF is our best option, we are in serious trouble!

Don’t know which game you were watching but I thought he was one of our best in keeping Moore quiet for the game

 

[Blues_fest]

I loved Voss as a player. One of the best. Tough and uncompromising.

I feel like Voss is not a natural coach. He doesn't be himself. He is trying to be what he thinks a modern coach should be. Using right words etc. It's manufactured

We aren't going to sack him but we should surround him him smart tactical coaches and encourage him to be more like he was as a player. If he does that I reckon players would follow

This exactly. He's trying so hard, but fighting who he is. It's not authentic and everyone can feel it. Compare it to Cripps speaking which is just real.

I'm lost and disappointed too mate. The last 8 months have been so deflating. I let myself believe again around mid season last year so this reality hurts. TDK gone now surely, the only reason you'd consider giving up that $ is for team success.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Was last night that bad??

Motlop point is a goal and we turn 16 points ahead at half time. Docherty marks in the final minutes of the third quarter and we are potentially in front at 3qrt time.
Last quarter we struggled but it wasn’t for lack of intent.
Thought the game plan and structure held up well - no doubt helped by the conditions … we are never going to match the Hawks game style.
Some really basic errors and conversion were really costly but Hawthon are a very good team.
Lots of scope for improvement - but understand we are hoping rather than expecting some players to step up to the next level.

Probably a pretty good summary. A few ifs and buts but not quite. We could actually be building into the season and hopefully can put some points on the board next week.

As a general rule I don't pay too much attention to fantasy points but I couldn't help noticing that we had 12 players who didn't get to 50 points whilst the Hawks had 5. Our good players were as good as any on the field. You can carry half a dozen who have purely defensive roles, are the sub, get subbed out etc. 12 seems way too many.

 

[DangerousD]

Was it the right plan? Well, with Jagga injured it's hard to say. Imagine the position we'd be in if we traded 2x firsts for Houston and he did his knee in pre-season.

Collingwood didn’t give up 2x1st round picks for Houston, they gave up a F1 (8-18) pick 36, Richard’s and Noble.

They got Houston and 58 back.

 

[Aphrodite]

Surprise surprise NOT ...

 

[Big Red is back]

Finally the media has caught on. Was evident even in our 2023 finals run when we had 8 weeks of uber close wins and one blow out loss to GWS, we lack skill, pace and good decision makers. Since 2022 we have been an excellent clearance team but the game has been moving towards a sling shot style for a decade and we have failed to adapt.

• List is all wrong, we would be far better with one of Harry or Charlie replaced with 2 elite high half forwards
• The number of talls we pick each week is a little laughable, especially talls like Haynes and Young who can't play.
• Coaching, stubborn and simply refuses to acknowledge the key issues and time and time again persists with the same stuff.

Not really sure what we can do as we have a once in generation spine (including Cripps) and we couldn't look further away from a flag. Given the list construction we may actually be the furthest team in the league from a flag.

 

[DangerousD]

Last night this was stark

Watching Amon Impey Sicily DAmrosio etc kick the ball is impressive. They kick darts and hit targets

Im not checking but im pretty sure the 3 of those who were trades cost the Hawks sweet F all