Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[Yellow Feathers]

Lyon bullies younger players and still can’t rally the troops for a win.
Why name Boxshall for him to spend most of the game on the bench?

 

[branedotorg]

Only Ross Lyon floods don't you know.

16 always in our forward 50 and yet it's somehow our fault.

The fact it almost always happens in st Kilda games is a coincidence is it?

Lyon plays a very smart damage limitation game that relies on breaking the other team. He is one of the few coaches running a style so specific that the opposition has to counter it, rather than attempt to play their own usual plan head-to-head. This looks a lot like other teams flooding or mirroring st Kilda.

That causes a pretty grim arm wrestle until either saints see a gap and exploit it with Sinclair or nwm OR the other team out pressures saints and intercepts.

It's ugly and tbh I hate watching it but I also respect the way he gets his players to commit to a system that takes a lot of work to get right.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Incorrect- they were the 2nd youngest team last week.

We were 3rd youngest.




incorrect again - 15-1-10 and 13-11 in 2023 and 2024 (including finals).

And 12-1-7 at the G.

this year, 3-5 and 1-3 at the G heading into tonight.

But fact is, Carlton were expected to contend for the flag. They're an experienced team playing on a ground they know well.

St Kildas were tipped to finish bottom 4 by the "footy experts", and they're bringing a team with a median age of 23 and 6 players with under 20 games experience.

A 15 point loss isn't a terrible result at all. Objectively.

Yes Carlton lost players but we lost a guy who's 2nd in the Coleman. Carlton also got a couple of goals from questionable frees.

Pretty happy with St Kilda's season to date and not overly disappointed tonight at all.

Carlton were tipped to contend for a flag but are playing horrific football with the team clearly out of whack and lacking cohesion. If the Saints can't beat us on a night we played well below our best then they are going nowhere fast.

Geelongs game against Carlton the other week can at least be excused as we genuinely played some of our best footy and Geelong weren't ready for it. Saints lost to a Blues side playing like s***, like they have majority of the year.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I also find it funny how quiet this thread was last week after a win

It's a scantioned kick a club when they're down thread.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

How Saints’ tactic was a blessing in disguise for injury-hit Carlton

‘It helped us’: How Saints’ tactics backfired... and were a blessing in disguise for injury-hit Carlton

www.foxsports.com.au

'Carlton coach Michael Voss intimated that the ultra-defensive tactics that St Kilda employed in the third quarter on Friday night at the MCG were a blessing in disguise for the Blues'

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

The fact it almost always happens in st Kilda games is a coincidence is it?

Lyon plays a very smart damage limitation game that relies on breaking the other team. He is one of the few coaches running a style so specific that the opposition has to counter it, rather than attempt to play their own usual plan head-to-head. This looks a lot like other teams flooding or mirroring st Kilda.

That causes a pretty grim arm wrestle until either saints see a gap and exploit it with Sinclair or nwm OR the other team out pressures saints and intercepts.

It's ugly and tbh I hate watching it but I also respect the way he gets his players to commit to a system that takes a lot of work to get right.

Every team floods back, your mob did it last night and stopped us getting quality inside 50 entries, forced to go slow and wide, which this current side hates, our best games and passages have been fast and with a lot of 45 degree kicks.

Credit has be there for Carlton knowing this and defending very well against us.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Every team floods back

No... They really don't.

 

[BillytheLid]

Faced with the chance to run the injury plagued Blues off their feet in the third quarter, Ross instead sees a chance to engage in a dour repeat stoppage game and falls for it hook line and sinker.

Not that I'm complaining.

To be fair St. Kilda were also injury inflicted, but perhaps to a slightly lesser degree. Howard could barely move and Higgins was obviously impacted by illness. And Carlton just as much to blame for the repeat stoppages. Neither side had to skill to get it to the outside and then find a target. In the end Carlton just had more class and experience. St. Kilda hopelessly undersized and won’t trouble the better teams with only 2 blokes over 6.5" Desperately need King back in the side.

For a team with a dual Brownlow medalist, 2 x Coleman medallists and several AA’s Carlton are underperforming. St. Kilda probably tracking at or above where they should. They will likely be 5/5 after 10 rounds and I reckon they would take that.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

No... They really don't.

They really do.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Not sure what critics expect the club and Lyon to do. Do they want the club to lose more games of footy to finish lower on the ladder to get a better draft pick? Like what North Melbourne has been doing for 8 years?

The kids are getting played. Older players who aren't up to it are getting moved on, see Ross and Riley Bonner

36

Riley Bonner

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.1

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

279.8

4star

D

12.3

3star

K

10.3

4star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

279.8

4star

D

21.4

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

7.4

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

.

It's not the club's fault they don't have gun father sons or academy kids to plug into their team ala Daicos, Heeney, Blakey, etc.

It is true that the club is in no man's land. But it's not clear to me how that is Lyon's fault or that there is a clear fix to that reality.

 

[beside the seaside]

Disappointing night for us last night, lacked the polish to get it done. Really felt we should have won the game but weren't good enough in crucial moments, and losing Higgins hurt.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Matthew Lloyd on 3AW today

"But I thought Carlton looked far more dangerous and I'm glad they won because I thought they played the game in the right way. More so than what St Kilda did"

 

[kickazz]

Not sure what critics expect the club and Lyon to do.

Try and move the ball forward when you are 9 points down with five minutes to go.

 

[PJays]

Not sure what critics expect the club and Lyon to do. Do they want the club to lose more games of footy to finish lower on the ladder to get a better draft pick? Like what North Melbourne has been doing for 8 years?

The kids are getting played. Older players who aren't up to it are getting moved on, see Ross and Riley Bonner.

It's not the club's fault they don't have gun father sons or academy kids to plug into their team ala Daicos, Heeney, Blakey, etc.

It is true that the club is in no man's land. But it's not clear to me how that is Lyon's fault or that there is a clear fix to that reality.

Spot on.

The club is absolutely heading in the right direction.

We've taken 18 picks in the national draft across the previous 4 drafts. 8 of those picks played last night.

Prior to that, St Kilda only had 4 picks in 2 years (2019 and 2020) including only one inside the top 40.

Those 2019 and 2020 draftees would be entering their primes, instead we've got Brad Hill who deserves to be dropped.

Can't change the past. Just move forward, keep drafting and playing the kids, develop them, build strong culture so they stay, and see where we're at in 2 years time.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Spot on.

The club is absolutely heading in the right direction.

We've taken 18 picks in the national draft across the previous 4 drafts. 8 of those picks played last night.

Prior to that, St Kilda only had 4 picks in 2 years (2019 and 2020) including only one inside the top 40.

Those 2019 and 2020 draftees would be entering their primes, instead we've got Brad Hill who deserves to be dropped.

Can't change the past. Just move forward, keep drafting and playing the kids, develop them, build strong culture so they stay, and see where we're at in 2 years time.

Who is coming through to replace Steele and Macrae when they slow down in the next 2-3 years other than Philippou? Boxshall seems fine, Garcia too... But there doesn't appear to be any sort of elite young midfield talent on the Saints list which is still their biggest area of weakness.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

Lyon bullies younger players and still can’t rally the troops for a win.
Why name Boxshall for him to spend most of the game on the bench?

Bullies younger players? You dickhead!

 

[PJays]

Who is coming through to replace Steele and Macrae when they slow down in the next 2-3 years other than Philippou? Boxshall seems fine, Garcia too... But there doesn't appear to be any sort of elite young midfield talent on the Saints list which is still their biggest area of weakness.

Agreed.

Hoping out of Phillipou, Wilson, Travaglia and NWM- all currently flankers or wings- Hoping 2 or 3 of them can become quality mids.

I'm generally a believer that you take the best talent available but really, midfielder must be a priority for this year's first round pick.

As I've said on this forum before, people have the criticism of Ross Lyon in reverse. He doesn't deserve criticism for a crap game plan, or that he can't coach. If anything he's too good a coach. Saints lose to Carlton in final round, we finish 14th instead of 12th. Were 15th for much of the year. Could already have gun mids but Ross always gets his teams to compete and win.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

Who is coming through to replace Steele and Macrae when they slow down in the next 2-3 years other than Philippou? Boxshall seems fine, Garcia too... But there doesn't appear to be any sort of elite young midfield talent on the Saints list which is still their biggest area of weakness.

St. Kilda’s midfield needs work no doubt but apparently Carltons midfield is elite and yet they only sit 4-5 with wins over north and west coast. Carlton is a just a very average team that will achieve nothing in the next few years before rebuilding again…

 

[beside the seaside]

Bullies younger players? You dickhead!

The young players love him, but why would anyone listen to their opinion on the matter?!

 

[PJays]

Carlton is a just a very average team that will achieve nothing in the next few years before rebuilding again…

I reckon if the teams had taken the opposite's coaches a few years ago, Carlton would've been consistently top 4 and contending for a flag, and Saints would've been 2 or 3 places lower every season.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Try and move the ball forward when you are 9 points down with five minutes to go.

It's hard when missing talls and Marshall is really struggling to take a grab.

 

[Yellow Feathers]

Bullies younger players? You dickhead!

When has he ever developed youth?
Look what he does to Garcia, Boxshall and female members of staff.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

When has he ever developed youth?
Look what he does to Garcia, Boxshall and female members of staff.

It’s AFL not under 12s. Garcia was fine. Bullying is a poor ascertain to make against Ross and nothing you say changes that

 

[PJays]

When has he ever developed youth?

NWM and Phillipou have blossomed into highly sought after young prospects under his tutelage.

Two of the greatest midfielders of this generation- Nat Fyfe and Lachie Neale- developed under Lyon, and neither of them were high draft picks.

Look what he does to Garcia, Boxshall and female members of staff.

"Female members of staff" implies multiple incidents- as far as I'm aware there was one alleged incident with one staff member?

Given how Garcia responded the following week (19 disposals, 9 contested, 5 clearances) perhaps the spray was worthwhile.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

NWM and Phillipou have blossomed into highly sought after young prospects under his tutelage.

Two of the greatest midfielders of this generation- Nat Fyfe and Lachie Neale- developed under Lyon, and neither of them were high draft picks.

Add in Owens , Windhager, Byrnes and Sharman have upped their games since Lyon came back.