Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2025 news

[RCAB]

Not sure where to post this, but I feel this is pertinent to the club's state at the moment.

I have to question at this point whether we have made the wrong decision to bring in both Barrass and Battle. Scrimshaw was playing perfectly last year as a key defender with the ability to intercept, compete at ground level, dispose of the ball elite by foot, set up plays from defence, and hold his own in physical one-on-ones. But right now, we look as if we are lacking all that with Barrass and Battle in town, especially Barrass.

I fear we may have gone too tall and made one signing too many that it is now hurting what made us so good last year defensively.

Despite losing the clearances by 11 against Melbourne, our intercept game was actually very good in round 9; this is the game that Barrass missed.

That game was Hawthorn's best defensive half game of the season (highest scores from defensive half).

The question remains: how important to our performance is Barrass's defensive agility and movement from the back half?



I would add two caveats.

1. I would need at least six more months to provide a definitive answer. It certainly takes some time for new players to gel, so I don't think you can have a definitive answer at least 12 months from recruitment.

I would presume, that defensive concentration, and synergy will improve over time as our defence starts to understand each other.

2. I haven't rewatched the game Lions on TV, but at the ground, I thought Barrass was quite good, especially in trying move up the wing and offer a target.


I see your point, and I think it's a watch for the rest of the season.

 

[Titch3Votes0MooreAA]

Despite losing the clearances by 11 against Melbourne, our intercept game was actually very good in round 9; this is the game that Barrass missed.

That game was Hawthorn's best defensive half game of the season (highest scores from defensive half).

The question remains: how important to our performance is Barrass's defensive agility and movement from the back half?



I would add two caveats.

1. I would need at least six more months to provide a definitive answer. It certainly takes some time for new players to gel, so I don't think you can have a definitive answer at least 12 months from recruitment.

I would presume, that defensive concentration, and synergy will improve over time as our defence starts to understand each other.

2. I haven't rewatched the game Lions on TV, but at the ground, I thought Barrass was quite good, especially in trying move up the wing and offer a target.


I see your point, and I think it's a watch for the rest of the season.

I agree that it will need time until we have a definite answer. But I suspect it's going to be very hard to adjust for Barrass, unlike Brian Lake when he came in. Lake walked into a team where our key defenders played taller than their size, meaning they were able to adjust a lot better with Lake coming in and be better at ground level. In comparison, we've added Barrass to an already relatively tall backline where it's a lot harder to accommodate for what he lacks.

 

[Yardie]

I agree that it will need time until we have a definite answer. But I suspect it's going to be very hard to adjust for Barrass, unlike Brian Lake when he came in. Lake walked into a team where our key defenders played taller than their size, meaning they were able to adjust a lot better with Lake coming in and be better at ground level. In comparison, we've added Barrass to an already relatively tall backline where it's a lot harder to accommodate for what he lacks.

I think the problem is that we won't make the hard decision to only play three talls as we did last season. Combined with Sicily being a shell of the player he was (and with a busted shoulder).

Think we need to embrace balance.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Barrass, Battle, Scrimshaw is more than adequate for talls and intercept ability.

One thing Barrass needs to do is get the ball onto his boot quicker. One thing his team mates need to do is realise that kicking isn't his strong suit and to make the extra effort to get a bit of extra space so they can be an option.

 

[peetoo]

I thought scrim one of our better players on Saturday?

 

[Brant]

Not sure where to post this, but I feel this is pertinent to the club's state at the moment.

I have to question at this point whether we have made the wrong decision to bring in both Barrass and Battle. Scrimshaw was playing perfectly last year as a key defender with the ability to intercept, compete at ground level, dispose of the ball elite by foot, set up plays from defence, and hold his own in physical one-on-ones. But right now, we look as if we are lacking all that with Barrass and Battle in town, especially Barrass.

I fear we may have gone too tall and made one signing too many that it is now hurting what made us so good last year defensively.

Barrass 2 FF.
It's the only reasonable option.

 

[MrPremiership]

Not sure where to post this, but I feel this is pertinent to the club's state at the moment.

I have to question at this point whether we have made the wrong decision to bring in both Barrass and Battle. Scrimshaw was playing perfectly last year as a key defender with the ability to intercept, compete at ground level, dispose of the ball elite by foot, set up plays from defence, and hold his own in physical one-on-ones. But right now, we look as if we are lacking all that with Barrass and Battle in town, especially Barrass.

I fear we may have gone too tall and made one signing too many that it is now hurting what made us so good last year defensively.

Our backline has been the best part of our game.

Our issues are starting with the mids. Nothing to do with B&B

 

[tommyk72]

The gelling has also been influenced by Sicily being unable to play his natural game due to injury.

How many games have they all played anyway? Betweem Scrim's concussions, TB's resting, and even Impey being off the last two weeks I'd be surprised if we've had the exact same starting back six in more than 1-2 games this year.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Despite losing the clearances by 11 against Melbourne, our intercept game was actually very good in round 9; this is the game that Barrass missed.

That game was Hawthorn's best defensive half game of the season (highest scores from defensive half).

The question remains: how important to our performance is Barrass's defensive agility and movement from the back half?



I would add two caveats.

1. I would need at least six more months to provide a definitive answer. It certainly takes some time for new players to gel, so I don't think you can have a definitive answer at least 12 months from recruitment.

I would presume, that defensive concentration, and synergy will improve over time as our defence starts to understand each other.

2. I haven't rewatched the game Lions on TV, but at the ground, I thought Barrass was quite good, especially in trying move up the wing and offer a target.


I see your point, and I think it's a watch for the rest of the season.

I'd say that game against Melbourne was a good intercept game because they have zero decent tall forward.
Barrass is critical for us against any team with a decent tall forward. We would constantly be killed by a high ball to opposition talls, now with Barrass that is just not happening.

 

[RCAB]

I'd say that game against Melbourne was a good intercept game because they have zero decent tall forward.
Barrass is critical for us against any team with a decent tall forward. We would constantly be killed by a high ball to opposition talls, now with Barrass that is just not happening.

That's fine, but you've ignored the other point in my post.

 

[PenAndPaper]

That's fine, but you've ignored the other point in my post.

What's your other point? Your post was not clear on what that is.

 

[Arkadia]

I think Sammy Mitchell is a smart enough man to work out the defficiency the team has in the middle of the ground and our set ups around the stoppages....
Meek is not dominant as he was last year...
Teams have worked him out and clubs set up accordingly at stoppages...
Secondly we are not getting the run out of the half back line, like last year...
Again teams have worked out the transition game which gave us the Hollywood Hawks last year....

If we cannot win one of the next two games, I don't think we finish top 4....

Hopefully Sammy can come up with a plan to curtail the pies midfield this Friday...

 

[Davo-27]

I think we had a rich vein of form last year which put us in contention and if not for a Port team who were desperate to prove something at home we had a chance to play Brisbane in a GF imo, but you can't turn back time.

This season started with no Dear who was instrumental in not only being a marking danger and goal kicker up forward, but was an aerial contest beast, we have missed that type of player up forward imo, our 3 players in the 40 all Australian squad are having poor years...(Sicily, Moore and D'Ambrosio)

Sicily hits 30 and now he can't play footy, Battle is playing his default position and Sicily can't get near it back or forward and when he does either turns it over or hospital passes it, he also looks out of shape and struggling to keep pace, I hoped it was a form slump, but it's been all season and there's no sign he is coming out of it, along with Breust I fear they are coming to the end of their great careers, Gunston is the opposite, he is still in great shape and form

Will Day is our best player and is injured which has been a set back for us this year

Ginnivan, Breust and Croc have been underwhelming this year, all 3 had better years last year and have not been good enough often enough

Positives: Watson, Amon, Jiath, Impey, Newcombe, Morrison, Battle, Barras, Meek, Weddle, Chol(but I wish he contested more aerially), Ward

Our midfield set up losing contests because we lack ball hunters, we have too many wanting to be fed the ball, Nash never hunts the ball and if it ends up in his hands he just takes the tackle or awkwardly punts it forward, Newc hunts it a few times a game, but he prefers to get fed the ball, Worpel can hunt the ball, but he hasn't often enough this year, we don't get first hands on footy and we don't tackle enough, we don't run although we have increased that recently, turn overs on top of not winning first poss and not tackling, what do we stand for? We're good at hitting targets when we get space and kicking scores when we get turnovers, but that's about it.... good teams don't turn it over enough for us to prosper so we can't beat them atm, that's our problem, we need different avenues to goal and we need to fix the fumbling, bumbling turnovers that have plagued us this season, also find a role Sicily can be productive in or else.

We're still a strong team, but we need to go from a 5-8 ranked team on the ladder in playstyle to a top 4 and premiership contender imo, that's the current challenge for Sam and the coaching staff, there's no shame in losing the last 2 games although the lack of control against Brisbane was frustrating via lack of scores from brissie turnovers, let's hope we find more avenues to goal against Coll, maybe win first poss, maybe farken tackle for once? Maybe earn more turnovers bytackling them causing spills that we turn into scoring chances so we can farken score?

You don't tackle for a free kick, you tackle to create turn over and put fear in your opponents mind...

 

[TONYC3163]

Sicily hits 30 and now he can't play footy

Wow, an interesting viewpoint.

 

[Bugs1977]

I think we had a rich vein of form last year which put us in contention and if not for a Port team who were desperate to prove something at home we had a chance to play Brisbane in a GF imo, but you can't turn back time.

This season started with no Dear who was instrumental in not only being a marking danger and goal kicker up forward, but was an aerial contest beast, we have missed that type of player up forward imo, our 3 players in the 40 all Australian squad are having poor years...(Sicily, Moore and D'Ambrosio)

Sicily hits 30 and now he can't play footy, Battle is playing his default position and Sicily can't get near it back or forward and when he does either turns it over or hospital passes it, he also looks out of shape and struggling to keep pace, I hoped it was a form slump, but it's been all season and there's no sign he is coming out of it, along with Breust I fear they are coming to the end of their great careers, Gunston is the opposite, he is still in great shape and form

Will Day is our best player and is injured which has been a set back for us this year

Ginnivan, Breust and Croc have been underwhelming this year, all 3 had better years last year and have not been good enough often enough

Positives: Watson, Amon, Jiath, Impey, Newcombe, Morrison, Battle, Barras, Meek, Weddle, Chol(but I wish he contested more aerially), Ward

Our midfield set up losing contests because we lack ball hunters, we have too many wanting to be fed the ball, Nash never hunts the ball and if it ends up in his hands he just takes the tackle or awkwardly punts it forward, Newc hunts it a few times a game, but he prefers to get fed the ball, Worpel can hunt the ball, but he hasn't often enough this year, we don't get first hands on footy and we don't tackle enough, we don't run although we have increased that recently, turn overs on top of not winning first poss and not tackling, what do we stand for? We're good at hitting targets when we get space and kicking scores when we get turnovers, but that's about it.... good teams don't turn it over enough for us to prosper so we can't beat them atm, that's our problem, we need different avenues to goal and we need to fix the fumbling, bumbling turnovers that have plagued us this season, also find a role Sicily can be productive in or else.

We're still a strong team, but we need to go from a 5-8 ranked team on the ladder in playstyle to a top 4 and premiership contender imo, that's the current challenge for Sam and the coaching staff, there's no shame in losing the last 2 games although the lack of control against Brisbane was frustrating via lack of scores from brissie turnovers, let's hope we find more avenues to goal against Coll, maybe win first poss, maybe farken tackle for once? Maybe earn more turnovers bytackling them causing spills that we turn into scoring chances so we can farken score?

You don't tackle for a free kick, you tackle to create turn over and put fear in your opponents mind...

I agree with most of what you've said but the Sicily thing is a mystery and you just don't lose that kind of ability in the space of 6 months. You go back to this time last season when he was playing with a dislocated shoulder he was phenomenal and still one of if not the best defender in the comp.

At some point in time hopefully sooner rather than later he'll be back to his best but the longer this form slump or whatever it persists the pressure will keep on mounting. It's almost as if whomever has been named the Hawthorn captain of late has all their super powers drained. Started off with Stratton, Roughie, McEvoy and now Sicily.

There's no way in hell it's the cliff for Sicily and I know Sam has said it's not an injury but I'm not buying it. It shouldn't take it but go back and watch his games when he was playing with one shoulder to quickly remind you of his quality.

 

[mustang]

Our midfield isn't as strong as Brisbanes and not as talented as GC who if we want to win a flag in the next few years we need to compete with, it's very workman like even with everyone fit, We are two elite midfielders short when everyone is fit to win the flag this year, even when Day returns, we need to add more class in there.

 

[RCAB]

Our midfield isn't as strong as Brisbanes and not as talented as GC who if we want to win a flag in the next few years we need to compete with, it's very workman like even with everyone fit, We are two elite midfielders short when everyone is fit to win the flag this year, even when Day returns, we need to add more class in there.

I don't think so.

 

[mustang]

I don't think so.

We will see won't we.

 

[kazzooka]

I agree with most of what you've said but the Sicily thing is a mystery and you just don't lose that kind of ability in the space of 6 months. You go back to this time last season when he was playing with a dislocated shoulder he was phenomenal and still one of if not the best defender in the comp.

You go back a few months before that and he looked terrible too.

He looks bad when the ball is coming in unpressured. He looks best when we are locking the ball in forward half and he sets up a wall. Rushed kicks come in and he intercepts them, and then pinponts passes.

Puting him in the back pocket with space around and the ball coming in unpressured, someone will jump on his head, or run off him.

I also feel like when last year he'd set himself up in the contest to intercept it's all smaller players. Now he has battle and barrass coming over the top killing those balls instead of them falling to him as he edges his opponent forward.

 

[wahawk]

I don't think so.

You don’t think what ??

Our midfield isn't as strong as Brisbanes ?

not as talented as GC ?

if we want to win a flag in the next few years we need to compete with ?
mustang was talking GC

it's very workman like even with everyone fit ?

We are two elite midfielders short when everyone is fit to win the flag this year ?

even when Day returns, we need to add more class in there ?

Which part/s of mustangs post do you disagree ?

 

[wahawk]

Sicily hits 30 and now he can't play footy,

I think that might just be a little over exaggerating, don’t you ?

 

[RCAB]

You don’t think what ??

Our midfield isn't as strong as Brisbanes ?

not as talented as GC ?

if we want to win a flag in the next few years we need to compete with ?
mustang was talking GC

it's very workman like even with everyone fit ?

We are two elite midfielders short when everyone is fit to win the flag this year ?

even when Day returns, we need to add more class in there ?

Which part/s of mustangs post do you disagree ?

Do you mean established midfielders based on age?

Top 15 Score Involvements (team %) between the Hawks, Lions and Suns midfielders.

Lions 6
Hawks 5
Suns 4

Average age of those 15 midfielders:

Lions 25.5
Suns 24.5
Hawks 23.6

That list doesn't even include Frenchie, Moore or Croc.

Also if Hawthorn hadn't lost Day, and Suns had lost either Anderson or Miller, Lions had lost either Neale or McCluggage... We'd probably be on top ladder despite our midfield being one or two years younger.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Barrass, Battle, Scrimshaw is more than adequate for talls and intercept ability.

One thing Barrass needs to do is get the ball onto his boot quicker. One thing his team mates need to do is realise that kicking isn't his strong suit and to make the extra effort to get a bit of extra space so they can be an option.

He's a reliable kick it just takes a little while to get to his boot but it's alot better than Frosty and he generally makes better decisions. We need to be utilising Barrass as the Pillar, negate his man, intercept where he can but stick to his limitations and we work around him as a backline group. He shouldn't be part of the transition down the ground merely there to start the play only.

 

[wahawk]

Do you mean established midfielders based on age?

Top 15 Score Involvements (team %) between the Hawks, Lions and Suns midfielders.

Lions 6
Hawks 5
Suns 4

Average age of those 15 midfielders:

Lions 25.5
Suns 24.5
Hawks 23.6

That list doesn't even include Frenchie, Moore or Croc.

Also if Hawthorn hadn't lost Day, and Suns had lost either Anderson or Miller, Lions had lost either Neale or McCluggage... We'd probably be on top ladder despite our midfield being one or two years younger.

What are you on about ?
That has absolutely nothing to with my post

 

[RCAB]

What are you on about ?
That has absolutely nothing to with my post

Actually it did but you don't see it.

I'm just giving you the facts.