Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Again based on what?


Did you know the Tigers are the only Melbourne club without a metropolitan NGA zone.

That North are going to lose Tassie allocation etc.

Again NGA and Indigenous zoning stuff isn't a VIC v Non-Vic issue as clubs all have different access.

IMHO the entire NGA / Indigenous zone stuff should be AFL controlled.

The objective should be about expanding potential playing talent pool, kids from backgrounds who traditionally don't enter AFL pathways.

It should not be a club linked program, as there will always be winners and losers no matter even if you give all clubs equitable distribution based on population data. But SA and WA clubs don't want that, they just want access to all their state based kids to make it "fair"...although it will mean much greater population pools.

I agree with this part

 

[sr36]

did you do that to Melbourne fans too?

just trying to figure out why The Home Of Football (TM) is empty that regularly

Melbourne did it to themselves.

Melbourne were a CBD team. They didn't have a suburb behind them. What they had was better - the Melbourne Cricket Club behind them and it made them the wealthiest and most successful club in the land - and the only tenant who hosted all the GFs. But in a masterstroke, they decided that those cricket folk were more interested in cricket than footy so they split from the MCC and went from being the biggest club in the land to the beigest.

 

[doppleganger]

Most are willing to move for a head coach role. I was talking more about assistant coaches.

Adelaide went after Ben Rutten recently, but he was unwilling to move back home if he wasn't the official senior assistant.

A former AFL senior coach, expecting an elevated role is hardly a good example of the woe is Adelaide agenda you are trying to push.

Why would a club "go after" a prospect and then not offer them a role with more seniority and responsibility?

We lost our best assistant coach James Rahilly a couple of seasons ago when he returned to geelong because of family. Sometimes we can bring people over but it's often for the short term. If we were a another vic club that had lured him from geelong we would have been able to hold him for longer.

If a bloke wants to live in Geelong he is going to try and get to Geelong.

Why do you think he would have stayed at Carlton if had the chance to go to Geelong?

 

[doppleganger]

year 5 geography one would think

You do realise some Melbourne based teams play just as many games outside of Melbourne as Adelaide do outside of Adelaide.

And that some Melbourne based teams travel further than Adelaide teams do each year.

So surely the claim that Adelaide have the hardest "road" ain't based on geography or travel.

 

[doppleganger]

I agree with this part

Be good to understand what you base your claim that Adelaide have the hardest "road" on.

And why it is harder than North or Western Bulldogs, or Essendon.

 

[sr36]

Not NGA, indigenous players from metro zones in SA and WA aren't a part of any of those 4 clubs catchments.

NWM would've been aligned to Adelaide.

It's currently under review with changes expected to be brought in across the board sometime in August.

If there are changes to the metro zoning Port may get access to Dougie Cochrane who is currently touted as a potential top 1 pick next year.

Dougie's father Stuart played about 50 games for each of North and Port, so not eligible as a FS to either.

Yep - that's right, but even with just metro international (which is all most of the Vic teams really have in terms of their populations) the SA still are better on paper than the Vic ones. SA clubs haven't taken it off paper and actually done anything other than put some names on paper. Cats in the same situation would have had some excellent acadmeies that grew the game amongst migrant communities and thus would have benefitted from those zones. But yes Port will get the grandson of a Sanfl hall of famer under a program to grow the game ... and think they deserve it.

 

[longdonkey]

Yep - that's right, but even with just metro international (which is all most of the Vic teams really have in terms of their populations) the SA still are better on paper than the Vic ones. SA clubs haven't taken it off paper and actually done anything other than put some names on paper. Cats in the same situation would have had some excellent acadmeies that grew the game amongst migrant communities and thus would have benefitted from those zones. But yes Port will get the grandson of a Sanfl hall of famer under a program to grow the game ... and think they deserve it.

I just fact checked your post here it is below.

no facts detected

 

[sr36]

That excuse doesn't really hold up when adelaide have had 0 players through the system that have been drafted in the top 40.

most other clubs would have at least 1

I didn't make an excuse.

Look up James Borlase.

You actually have more than several Vic clubs and the same amount as several others.

But in terms of SA - NGA is more a list than a system or an academy.

 

[PeterSalt]

Yep - that's right, but even with just metro international (which is all most of the Vic teams really have in terms of their populations) the SA still are better on paper than the Vic ones. SA clubs haven't taken it off paper and actually done anything other than put some names on paper. Cats in the same situation would have had some excellent acadmeies that grew the game amongst migrant communities and thus would have benefitted from those zones. But yes Port will get the grandson of a Sanfl hall of famer under a program to grow the game ... and think they deserve it.

What are you talking about. Both SA clubs put quite a lot into their NGA's.

Here are a few off of the top of my head that were a part of Adelaide's NGA program:

Izak Rankine was a part of our NGA, not eligible for us to match​

Leek Aleer was part of Adelaide's NGA​

NWM was part of Adelaide's NGA​

Isiah Dudley (currently at Freo)​

Isaac Keeler was part of our NGA (currently at St Kilda)​

 

[PeterSalt]

I didn't make an excuse.

Look up James Borlase.

You actually have more than several Vic clubs and the same amount as several others.

But in terms of SA - NGA is more a list than a system or an academy.

James Borlase wasn't a top 40 pick. He's been out of contract twice and available for any other club to sign up if he was that highly regarded. Port, who his father played for didn't even show any interest

 

[longdonkey]

What are you talking about. Both SA clubs put quite a lot into their NGA's.

Here are a few off of the top of my head that were a part of Adelaide's NGA program:

Izak Rankine was a part of our NGA, not eligible for us to match​

Leek Aleer was part of Adelaide's NGA​

NWM was part of Adelaide's NGA​

Isiah Dudley (currently at Freo)​

Isaac Keeler was part of our NGA (currently at St Kilda)​

And on the Port side we have had an Aboriginal Academy operational since 2014. As far as I know Tyson Stengle was in it and I think Kossie Pickett too.

In 2019 we had
Kossie Pickett
Phoenix Spicer
Nasiah Wanganeen
Isiah Dudley
in our Aboriginal Academy.... you're welcome

 

[randyzany]

This sums up VicBias very succinctly…

537K views · 3K reactions | How has a 23-gamer played at MORE VENUES than Scott Pendlebury?! 🤔 On this week's ESPN Footy Podcast, the crew points out that one of the youngest players in the entire #AFL has played at more grounds than Collingwood's

How has a 23-gamer played at MORE VENUES than Scott Pendlebury?! 🤔 On this week's ESPN Footy Podcast, the crew points out that one of the youngest players in the entire #AFL has played at more...

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That's more of a Collingwood Bias thing than a Vic one. Collingwood are mollycoddled and the Apple of the Eye of the AFL because they have a large fan base and unlike the other big clubs they're consistently good most years. So the AFL rewards them by scheduling most of their games at the biggest stadium in the country, the MCG, to milk from them big attendance crowd numbers as much as possible. The other big Melbourne clubs have struggled in the past 20 years so their crowd numbers aren't as impressive (not surprising that Carlton and Essendon bandwagon fans don't feel like coming to watch their team when they're at the bottom of the ladder) and therefore not as reliable as Collingwood's fans to fill the 'G. Other smaller Melbourne clubs on the other hand play just as many venues as the interstate sides.

 

[PeterSalt]

And on the Port side we have had an Aboriginal Academy operational since 2014. As far as I know Tyson Stengle was in it and I think Kossie Pickett too

It'd be interesting to know how many kids who've come through the NGA programs in SA have gone onto to play SANFL?

 

[sr36]

James Borlase wasn't a top 40 pick. He's been out of contract twice and available for any other club to sign up if he was that highly regarded. Port, who his father played for didn't even show any interest

No NGA academy players from any state were able to be matched in the top 40.

 

[PeterSalt]

No NGA academy players from any state were able to be matched in the top 40.

What are you talking about, that rule was introduced in 2021 and was dropped in 2024

It was a rule that was essentially only in place for 3 drafts

JUH was drafted by the WBD's under the NGA rules. And he is classic example of a club who put little to no effort into his development as junior beyond sending him a few pairs of boots

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I didn't make an excuse.

Look up James Borlase.

You actually have more than several Vic clubs and the same amount as several others.

But in terms of SA - NGA is more a list than a system or an academy.

Lol that’s why I said inside the top 40.

Borlase is a backup only player drafted as a rookie, hardly a big leg up.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

No NGA academy players from any state were able to be matched in the top 40.

Wrong . They were at the start , then the afl changed rules, then changed them back.

 

[sr36]

That's more of a Collingwood Bias thing than a Vic one. Collingwood are mollycoddled and the Apple of the Eye of the AFL because they have a large fan base and unlike the other big clubs they're consistently good most years. So the AFL rewards them by scheduling most of their games at the biggest stadium in the country, the MCG, to milk from them big attendance crowd numbers as much as possible. Other smaller Melbourne clubs on the other hand play just as many venues as the interstate sides.

This sort of thing shows the muddled thinking of many in this thread. If Port think they are disadvantaged by playing Dogs in Ballarat - it's not an advantage to Collingwood we're not even remotely involved - it's an advantage to Dogs( if there is an advantage.) Same with Hawks in Tassie. GC in Darwin. GWS in Canberra. Melbourne in Alice (does Melb ever win in Alice?)

Plus it's not the AFL doing this - it is the club selling the game. They're choosing to not sell home games against Collingwood to a regional venue.

The Cats at the G rather than KP is the only one that is an AFL advantage to Collingwood.

 

[longdonkey]

Lol that’s why I said inside the top 40.

Borlase is a backup only player drafted as a rookie, hardly a big leg up.

Apparently there is another Borlase rule coming up Carl Steinfort's son was born in Finland so Geelong will be rolling out that rule.

 

[longdonkey]

No NGA academy players from any state were able to be matched in the top 40.

please explain Jamarra Ugle Hagen and Isaac Quaynor

 

[sr36]

What are you talking about, that rule was introduced in 2021 and was dropped in 2024

It was a rule that was essentially only in place for 3 drafts

JUH was drafted by the WBD's under the NGA rules. And he is classic example of a club who put little to no effort into his development as junior beyond sending him a few pairs of boots

The NGA access was only in place for a couple of years before then - and there was only about 4 or 5 top kids taken.

Absolutely to the bolded - there was big disgruntlement that JUH and Jiath to the Hawks were two of the first to come through when those two clubs hadn't even bothered to take up the AFL grants - just put names on a list. It was a big factor in the matching rights getting shifted to later. The whole program is a rort that will completely stuff the draft - half of Austrelia has a parent born outside of the country.

 

[sr36]

please explain Jamarra Ugle Hagen and Isaac Quaynor

You could match at any stage of the first 4 years (really on 2 in order for them to qualify). Freo, North, Collingwood and Dogs got lucky wiht some early picked players that qualified. SA teams are actually more likely to get lucky - particularly if they set up some decent academies and it will be even more likely again once the access to Aboriginal kids goes through - which will ensure that they do set up some decent academies.

 

[randyzany]

It's a band-aid solution to the travel issue but I don't mind it, north get the financial kick backs and the WA teams have their travel load reduced. All parties have seemed to benefited.

There's also a weirdly large number of north fans in WA. Why you would want to do that to yourself I'm unsure.

Of course you'll say that to justify such a joke of deal that further compromises the integrity of the schedule.
You would definitely not have that same attitude if Collingwood bought home games from the Giants and GC to play at the 'G, I'm certain you'd be singing a different tune in that scenario. lol

 

[jdisc]

You do realise some Melbourne based teams play just as many games outside of Melbourne as Adelaide do outside of Adelaide.

And that some Melbourne based teams travel further than Adelaide teams do each year.

So surely the claim that Adelaide have the hardest "road" ain't based on geography or travel.

by "some" I am assuming you mean the Melbourne teams that travel the most?

God forbid a Melbourne team leave Melbourne as much as an Adelaide team leave Adelaide. In a national competition. With home and away fixtures.

Madness.

 

[sr36]

Apparently there is another Borlase rule coming up Carl Steinfort's son was born in Finland so Geelong will be rolling out that rule.

The whole thing is a Borlase rule. Most of the kids in NGA have an Australian born footy fan parent and were playing club footy before the AFL club discovered they qualified.