Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Opium]

Had a great first quarter. Set the tone.

Weird post.

He's not AFL standard footballer. How long do we persist with him is the question.

 

[El Topo]

As I've said before I'm not an ITK. I have A LOT of older Carlton (and a few current) players on facebook and a lot of media people. Sometimes it's current players who will add perspective to something, sometimes it's a former player who will spill the tea that they've gotten from a connection (third hand information). Footy people love to talk. When I share something it's because I've generally gotten permission to do so (I'll never post anything here without asking first).

Here's something that I can share. I'm working on having one of our former players - who was involved in Carlton post-playing - message Aph. I don't know when he's going to do it but he said he would. He's considering starting an account here too (but first things first).

If you want something that I consider positive I'll share this belief:

Nick Austin understood just how far off a premiership we were years ago. The club has intentionally hedged its bets ever since. He's reset the list "on the fly" to put us into a better position than what we were in in 2015. We have a lot more younger talent (who can be genuine AFL players) on the list than we did in that period.

We're not going to be down the tail end of the ladder for the next half-decade.

We may be down for another couple of seasons but the list will be rebuilt by the time Tassie comes into the league.

This tracks with Cook's comments back in 2022 that the playing list was too top heavy

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Nah, didn’t misread it…Watsons head was bigger than Whitnall than at any time in his career

 

[DangerousD]

The only way I’d entertain Cripps leaving is if he ended his contract and left as a free agent and is paid enough to get us band 1.

Being realistic, if 2026 is a reset year and we want to bounce back in 2027, Cripps is at the end of his career and tasting a premiership in 2027 and 28 would be a long shot.

Him leaving makes more sense than moving on players 3-5 years younger

 

[myblueroan]

Are you hearing anything about Butters and his intentions?

Something about toast?

 

[Jimmae]

If I am JSOS, I look at Jack Martin and wonder why my own injuries can’t be managed as well as has happened at Geelong.

His fitness is actually worse than his time at Carlton, but his talent was always undeniable.

He would not have helped us the same way he's helping Geelong right now.

if Cripps wants out, which will destroy the club imo, then I would offer two 1sts and Cripps for Reid and 2nd rd

No player in the competition is worth that.

No chance Cripps leaves.

This is my take as well, he's not going to give us a bad trade, and he's probably not going to a side that's even further behind at the age of 30.

If a hypothetical deal didn't involve Reid or their 2 early picks - clearly with us having to give something up in either scenario - I'm not interested.

North, Essendon have been rebuilding for a while and are still near the bottom. We have yet to bottom out. Next year looks like a bottom 4 finish. Kids will take time even if you nail the pick over the next few drafts.

The smart clubs engineer it so that they don't bottom out at that moment in time, and not for long.

We're still fully capable of refitting this list, North and Essendon are basket cases because of cultural and list strategy issues. We're a bit of both, but nowhere near as far gone.

North were supposed to rise this year, and it all went completely to shit, so I'd imagine there's some sweet trades possible with them.

Should be picking apart the four Northern teams too.

If this is the case, it means he will sack the Football Manager, Recruitment Manager and List Manager at the end of season.

We will go into trade week with GW acting as all 3 positions in addition to being CEO.

Or with 3 guys hand picked by the incoming CEO from clubs not in finals contention.

Maybe we will end up with North Melbourne's Football Manager, West Coast List Manager and Essendons Recruitment Manager.....

Rumours have long been new football manager, and restructuring of the list strategy setup. Both are mediocre, though the latter has its strengths that need to be better steered and complimented.

The change has already started 2-3 years ago, we’ve been pretty much using the draft exclusively since we used pick 6 on Cerra.
Maybe we were forced to because players didn’t really “take well under to keep the group together” or our continual flakiness and distrust as a competitive, consistent football team has been there for all to see except for 2 completely seperate periods where it actually clicked over a 5 year period.

We have to go to the draft and refresh the list at some point, especially when you've already stuffed the pockets of your stars.

Would have happened regardless, with our key weaknesses that we didn't pull the trigger on some outbound trades sooner.

I really don't like the Harley talk. Sure, he’s got heaps of talent and could potentially be the best player in the league in a few years, but the money is insane and his head is already bigger than Lance Whitnall. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he gets so far ahead of himself that he doesn't fulfil his potential.

He's definitely a mixed bag, and he's definitely not worth $2m, which no stably performing club would ever even consider paying.

If he left West Coast while under such a contract, they'd be footing a lot of the bill. If he wants success, that's a big sign he either needs to leave, or get ultra-serious about how he handles his preparation, recovery, and his body shape.

He looks over 90 kgs and he's already lost a lot of sustained speed and spring. His body is a disaster zone waiting to happen despite how strong he is over the ball.

 

[ferrisb]

I can't imagine the senior playing group being too upset about the likes of Marchbank, Martin, etc being delisted unless they held an underlying (maybe even unspoken) belief that their bodies/injuries were mismanaged by the club.

I mean you can't blame a club for parting ways with players who can't stay on the park, unless you think the club is mostly responsible for that, can you?

If it turns out they are just unhappy because their mates are gone, with 0 appreciation of their injury history and the value of list spots, then they need to grow up and realise this is an AFL club not a community centre.

(total speculation here)

I don't think the player group was upset at losing mates. I think they might have been upset by the overall list approach/(lack of) development .

We lost a lot of depth and replaced it with a long-term pick in Jagga (that used a lot of draft capital) and a short-term band aid in Haynes.

Planned or not, we probably took a step backwards over the off-season. The players might have interpreted this as the admin giving up on the premiership window.

 

[ajb72]

Cripps going would be an interesting one.

He is likely our biggest strength, but emphasises out biggest weakness.

Hopefully it can be turned into a win/win for both clubs.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Hopefully it can be turned into a win/win for both clubs.

Possible if West Coast decide to baulk at the $2m man

 

[ferrisb]

Well we’re about to turn into Richmond in one off season without a super draft to get us excited, two of our juniors have done ACLs. A third generation Carlton, blue blooded part of the furniture is leaving for our arch nemesis. Our game plan is atrocious, and our players can’t kick. We are about to lose our head coach or keep him, whatever is worse

You never get all the players you're chasing.

And you never lose all the players that are rumoured to be out the door.

 

[ferrisb]

So now not only are Carlton ruining winter, they’re going to ruin our summer too. Damn this stupid club that I can’t help but love.

 

[Broadside]

Planned or not, we probably took a step backwards over the off-season. The players might have interpreted this as the admin giving up on the premiership window.

I don't see it that way - I saw it as a last roll of the dice for a premiership - topping up with a veteran who has maybe 1 or 2 good year and instead of a couple of excellent top 15 picks going all in on one (potential) gun.

 

[DangerousD]

If the AFL hands West Coast a priority pick at the start of the draft then it's possible they start the trade period with the first three picks in the draft after Brisbane sign Oscar Allen in free agency.

I would be staggered, band 1 for Allen is already a PP, I’m sceptical that Brisbane can offer an injury prone player $1M plus to trigger band 1

PP surely access to state league players and 3rd round picks

 

[ferrisb]

As Meatloaf said “one out of ten ain’t bad”.

Ah, the title of his 2011 grand final show!

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Mid first will end up closer to mid 20s once academy, father sons and free agency picks are accounted for.

Next years West Coast first for Crippa, hang onto Charlie unless we get 2 good firsts.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Holy hell, there's a fair bit to catch up on since yesterday...

Had a kids party in the arvo, by the time we got home needed to sort dinner and get the little ones to bed, figured I'd check the score and see if it was going to be a game worth watching. Whaddaya know, half time and we're up! Giddy up!!!

Watched the first half, checked the score again....**** meeeeeee. Went to bed.

Now Cripps wants out, JSOS is gone, Charlie might go, Weiters and Walsh will stay, we're getting Reid, coach is Schrodingers Voss.

For what it's worth, here are some random morning thoughts from me:

JSOS can go, I don't care. I think him wanting out is emblematic of the issues at the club, but I don't think him going will actually negatively impact us all that much. If anything, maybe a third gen Blue leaving to the Pies for a comparable contract will have a few on the board reassessing the state of the club. Though if we're honest, most of the time the people on the board are more interested in their position on the board than they are in putting their name to a call for major change.

If Cripps wants out, whether it's cause he's burnt or because he/his family want or need a move to WA, I'm honestly fine with that too. I've been on the record for a while now as being somewhat unimpressed by his captaincy. He's a ripping bloke, he's an absolute warrior, but his leadership is "get on my back boys, I'm taking you with me", and the rest of the list have for far too long been quite happy to take that piggy-back rather than put their stamp on a game.

On the potential trade return for Cripps, I think people are kidding themselves if they think we get much more than something equivalent to about Pick 8-12. He's contracted, so we can always say no, but he's 31 and won't command a top 5 pick, let alone multiple mid first rounders. If he really wants out, I could see it being a pick around 10-15 (depending on what the other club have to work with), plus a future second or something of that nature. Maybe we can squeeze a surplus to requirements young kid in the deal while we're at it.

On his reasons for wanting out (caveat: if it's true), I think it supports a suggestion I made re: Doc. That the club have determined a flag is not coming while he's still playing footy, and told the leaders that. Someone in the footy department may have also tabled the possibility of a change in captaincy. Cripps and Doc had their pact as leaders - stick together, lead the club to a flag. Doc's gone, Cripps is near the end, if a flag ain't coming and if the captaincy is a good chance of being handed off - maybe from his perspective it's time to think family rather than footy.

I'm also genuinely unfazed if Charlie wants out. He has the potential to get us the most return via a trade, so letting him go and giving guys like Lemmey and HOK their chance as a second KPF alongside Harry next year might be the key to making this half detonation of the list work. TDK's compo might end up just covering Dean, JSOS's compo is going to be in the 20s or perhaps even later, Cripps potentially a pick in the teens. They essentially cover themselves on a one in, one out basis. But Charlie is the one who could net us 2-3 handy players, and allow us to address multiple needs.

Weiters and Walsh in a captain/vice captain partnership could very well work, though I do get concerned when your captaincy options are both former Pick 1s. They may have high standards, but do they have the genuine understanding of the limitations of their "lesser" teammates, or will their expectations be somewhat unreasonable based on their own lived experience. I'd love to find a bit more of a journeyman type, but not sure we have any great candidates there. Newy too old and coming back from a bad injury, Hewett maybe? Cerra too passive for mine. Too early for the likes of Hollands and Cowan. Would be a tough discussion behind closed doors I think.

Feel like Voss's tenure is hinging on who could replace him. If Longmire wants to coach, I think we ditch Voss and make the play for Horse. If there isn't anyone of that stature available, we might let Voss see out his contract, try to get someone like Simpson in as an assistant to see if an experienced support for Voss is able to unlock the best from him, and then if 2026 doesn't show what we want it to then Voss can simply not be renewed. At that point, we could either promote Simpson if we think he's the right fit, or we could look for an untried first timer with the knowledge that they'd have Simpson to help them navigate the early stages.

And finally....what the hell is going on when the players come out half asleep for Doc's retirement game and Weiters' 200th, but a week later come out breathing fire against Freo after flying over to WA? Bizarre!

 

[ctwenty1]

Ah, the title of his 2011 grand final show!

pretty sure that was scoreless...

 

[Aphrodite]

Boohemian quit the emoji reactions trolling!

 

[ctwenty1]

Boohemian quit the emoji reactions trolling!

 

[T2B_]

I could understand Cripps wanting out and being closer to family etc, but I also find it hard to believe. He's built different, strikes me as incredibly intent on finishing a job to the point of real stubborness and won't leave any stone unturned.

That and moving to the west arguably advances him no closer to a flag, even if it's Freo.

Anyway, if he does actually want out, it shows things really have blown up terribly inside the club.

 

[passmark]

as others have said I don’t think we’d be getting a king’s ransom for Cripps.

Oldish and coming off a poor year.

First rounder and some change . Have they got any VIC kids with some potential?

Maybe a bundle with McGovern/Cripps gets us a bit more.

 

[lily of laguna]

3 is the new 2.

I think you're conflating the rumour he passed on with his opinion on the potential deal.

I’m not conflating but I get your point.
Rumours are welcome, in fact I very much enjoy them and the discussions they make, in saying that I think we are entitled to be sceptical.
As for this particular rumour I don’t believe it for a moment, but if something was to transpire it could still end positively.
What I was really taking umbrage with was the “itk” telling us to prepare for a very mediocre return.
That crosses over from being a rumour to pure fantasy because even if crippa had decided to return home the deal would not have even started to be thrashed out.

 

[goreds]

as others have said I don’t think we’d be getting a king’s ransom for Cripps.

Oldish and coming off a poor year.

First rounder and some change . Have they got any VIC kids with some potential?

Maybe a bundle with McGovern/Cripps gets us a bit more.

Heard they have a kid called Reid, not sure on his pace, kicking, strength, flair, marking, did I mention speed. Not sure if he's up to Ollies, Cowans or Moir's ability but might be worth the risk?

 

[Benaly28]

So much unnecessary panic
Just doing what needs to be done.
Change isn’t always easy, but sometimes (as is the case now) it’s necessary.
Players are either in or in the way.
No more halfheartedness
I don’t care about this ‘it’s been 30 years’ bs. That’s irrelevant to the people at the club now.
Again, it’s what we wanted.

Agree

 

[Blue and Silver]

I wonder if some strong conversations are due to be had.

Cripps had some comments last week

"You find out a lot about yourself, I reckon, (in) these times, not only as a player but as a leader, but also (about) guys around you, the ones that really want to step up and dig in versus, like I said before, the ones that want to step away,”

Who is it that wants to step away?

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