Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Gointocarlton]

There was a rumour on here months ago saying Jack was about to sign….

TDK was gonna sign before the start of the season or by rnd 3

No Discussion - Bluemour File *Rumours Only - NO DISCUSSION*

Please use the Bluemour hashtag #Bluemour Discussion on the rumours is in this thread: Bluemour Discussion Thread This thread is for Carlton related rumours only. No discussion about the rumour will take place in here. Instead we have a Bluemour Discussion thread.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Who are we talking about about ?

It's hard because they are much loved and if they stay, I'm going to be taunted and ridiculed until I die. However, I enjoy the attention so ...

1. Charlie Curnow - has got by on natural talent for so long. He's a burst player. When he's up, he can pile on a few quick goals and change the momentum, but he never seeks to work through a full game and really hurt the opposition. He doesn't use his superior athleticism to chase down defenders and turn the ball back our way. He saves his energy for the glory stuff, the saving mark in defence or the wheel and go downtown goals. Has had the attributes to be one of the greats, but has half the workrate of a Jeremy Cameron.

2. Patrick Cripps - absolute gun player, heart and soul player and a legend of this club. However, when our backs are to the wall, he's no longer the one to change the course of a game. He went through his periods of doing too much and hurting the team, and periods of not knowing when to inject himself back into the game to halt momentum. Surrounding his Brownlow years, he has had some seriously so-so seasons. If there is one player we rely on to always lead the way, it's Crippa, and he doesn't always do that. Having said all that, he is still worth his salary.

3. Jacob Weitering - oh shit, another Bambi slaying. Another colossus most of the time, but out on the field, his voice and organisation doesn't seem to be there. Doesn't seem to be able to work in with some other players. Often leaves his man and leaves his opponent against lesser medium defenders, and can't take on certain types of forward, meaning that players like Brodie Kemp were thrown to the wolves at times. I worry about him as a future captain, because I'm not sure he can be that strong voice the team needs. How many key defenders are earning anywhere close to $1m per season?

4. Harry McKay - this one I am less sure about. He definitely is not worth anywhere near $1m per year, so that's not the problem. Harry has always had a flaky side, hit or miss. He's never been that big pack splitter that a team needs, and unless he is on a long lead down a wing, he's not ultra reliable with his hands. I definitely think the Coleman and other clubs sniffing around made Austin panic, instead of relying on Harry's relationship with teammates to slice $200k off his price.

TDK hasn't been paid yet, but we all agree he is not worth what is on offer elsewhere, or even what our supposed offer is. You just don't pay that to ruckmen. Thankfully Graham Wright was across these things at Collingwood when Grundy and Treloar were cut loose.

I leave Sam Walsh out of these discussions because his issues are entirely due to injury IMO, including gameplan exacerbating those injuries. He was on track to being one of the best midfielders in the game and I don't think lack of effort has ever been his problem.

 

[4thchicken]

It's not about money, but it could be about being the last one to get a contract each time it comes up, because he is waiting for the prima donnas worth $500k to cop their $1m+ paydays based on potential.

Having said that, Jack should recognise he has been injured an awful lot, and if he is being dealt with as a player, not a Silvagni, there are multiple factors to be taken into account. I believe we should respect the Silvagni legacy in the way we make Jack feel like it is important to the club, but I don't believe that Jack should feel entitled because of that legacy.

Is it really entitlement though? Forget the JSOS name/legacy for a moment…

As of round 13, contract negotiations had not commenced with the media suggesting the club would commence talks in the coming weeks (https://www.afl.com.au/news/1335572...n the team has got,be ringing at some stage.").

As of June 12 (round 14), no talks had commenced - ‘Talks had been parked until now, but the Blues are keen to bed down a multi-year deal’ (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...e-signs-with-collingwood-20250611-p5m6p2.html)

Surely JSOS, coming back from an ACL, would also have recognised that had he suffered a significant injury over those first 14 weeks whilst awaiting contract negotiations to begin he could potentially be substantially less attractive offer? Or given a potentially tight list, no offer at all? (See Owies despite being our best small forward in 2024/clearly in the 22)

Now add back the legacy - did JSOS feel the club was trying to take advantage of the legacy? ie JSOS will never leave, he is carlton and will take whatever we offer whenever we choose to do so…

Agree we were waiting on TDK with few signings in the first half of the year (Cerra and Saad were extended in Jan, Lord in Feb, Hewett in June) however is that really how list management and contract negotiations should be conducted? Surely it wouldn’t have been too difficult to have a live ranking of all the players in terms of list prioritisation, assume TDK would sign for whatever the offer is and then start making some base offers to other players acknowledging that some players may need to be moved on to free up cap space if absolutely required…

We can only speculate as to what communication/or lack thereof was occurring through the first half of the year - With hindsight perhaps contract negotiations should have commenced earlier…

 

[4thchicken]

Mate, I'd take Ratten back. At least we played exciting football.

Also instilled a sense of pride in the club/jumper - from first press conference to the one where he got sacked… Would never happen but I would GLADLY have Ratts back as coach

 

[My Hat]

The latest JSOS rumour makes it sound a lot like a communication breakdown somewhere between the player, the manager, and the list team. If so, Wright closing the loop and talking to JSOS directly was clearly the right move, and I guess now we just wait and see what happens.

 

[ferrisb]

I'll say this - what I do like from Melbourne is that they made this move after a big win. Yeah, it was against WC, so it doesn't really count. But at least at surface level it looks less like a reactive "rahr, we lost, sack the coach!" decision.

I reckon the collapse to St Kilda triggered a "rahr, we lost, sack the coach!" decision*.

But it took a week for the board to get together, discuss and approve what will be a million dollar payout. So the after a win timing might be lucky optics.






* note, I don't think this was a sudden decision due to the St Kilda loss. I assume Goody has been on thin ice for a long time and that was the final straw.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I reckon the collapse to St Kilda triggered a "rahr, we lost, sack the coach!" decision*.

But it took a week for the board to get together, discuss and approve what will be a million dollar payout. So the after a win timing might be lucky optics.






* note, I don't think this was a sudden decision due to the St Kilda loss. I assume Goody has been on thin ice for a long time and that was the final straw.

Think he's been gone since petracca agreed not to go nuclear

 

[I bleed Blue]

Don't ... I think I still can summon up a tear remembering that press conference.

I was absolutely shattered.

Worst decision I've seen this club make in my time.

 

[BlueTongue]

Jack yet to decide - resents Carlton for not entering contract talks earlier - only came to the table when Collingwood came sniffing - his decision could go either way

 

[mjonc43]

Call bullshit on Jack. He was given a fair contract anywhere near $600k.

If we came back and offered more, bad deal, unless it's based on 20+ games bonuses to get to $700k.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Is it really entitlement though? Forget the JSOS name/legacy for a moment…

As of round 13, contract negotiations had not commenced with the media suggesting the club would commence talks in the coming weeks (https://www.afl.com.au/news/1335572/inside-trading-dees-stars-options-blues-new-deal-hawks-gun-in-talks#:~:text=BLUES LOOK TO 'JSOS' TALKS,the eve of the season.&text=He is coming towards the,.com.au this week.&text="When the team has got,be ringing at some stage.").

As of June 12 (round 14), no talks had commenced - ‘Talks had been parked until now, but the Blues are keen to bed down a multi-year deal’ (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...e-signs-with-collingwood-20250611-p5m6p2.html)

Surely JSOS, coming back from an ACL, would also have recognised that had he suffered a significant injury over those first 14 weeks whilst awaiting contract negotiations to begin he could potentially be substantially less attractive offer? Or given a potentially tight list, no offer at all? (See Owies despite being our best small forward in 2024/clearly in the 22)

Now add back the legacy - did JSOS feel the club was trying to take advantage of the legacy? ie JSOS will never leave, he is carlton and will take whatever we offer whenever we choose to do so…

Agree we were waiting on TDK with few signings in the first half of the year (Cerra and Saad were extended in Jan, Lord in Feb, Hewett in June) however is that really how list management and contract negotiations should be conducted? Surely it wouldn’t have been too difficult to have a live ranking of all the players in terms of list prioritisation, assume TDK would sign for whatever the offer is and then start making some base offers to other players acknowledging that some players may need to be moved on to free up cap space if absolutely required…

We can only speculate as to what communication/or lack thereof was occurring through the first half of the year - With hindsight perhaps contract negotiations should have commenced earlier…

I'm not saying there is entitlement there. I'm just saying his name shouldn't make him feel entitled. I'm a Jack fan and want him to stay.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Is it really entitlement though? Forget the JSOS name/legacy for a moment…

As of round 13, contract negotiations had not commenced with the media suggesting the club would commence talks in the coming weeks (https://www.afl.com.au/news/1335572/inside-trading-dees-stars-options-blues-new-deal-hawks-gun-in-talks#:~:text=BLUES LOOK TO 'JSOS' TALKS,the eve of the season.&text=He is coming towards the,.com.au this week.&text="When the team has got,be ringing at some stage.").

As of June 12 (round 14), no talks had commenced - ‘Talks had been parked until now, but the Blues are keen to bed down a multi-year deal’ (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...e-signs-with-collingwood-20250611-p5m6p2.html)

Surely JSOS, coming back from an ACL, would also have recognised that had he suffered a significant injury over those first 14 weeks whilst awaiting contract negotiations to begin he could potentially be substantially less attractive offer? Or given a potentially tight list, no offer at all? (See Owies despite being our best small forward in 2024/clearly in the 22)

Now add back the legacy - did JSOS feel the club was trying to take advantage of the legacy? ie JSOS will never leave, he is carlton and will take whatever we offer whenever we choose to do so…

Agree we were waiting on TDK with few signings in the first half of the year (Cerra and Saad were extended in Jan, Lord in Feb, Hewett in June) however is that really how list management and contract negotiations should be conducted? Surely it wouldn’t have been too difficult to have a live ranking of all the players in terms of list prioritisation, assume TDK would sign for whatever the offer is and then start making some base offers to other players acknowledging that some players may need to be moved on to free up cap space if absolutely required…

We can only speculate as to what communication/or lack thereof was occurring through the first half of the year - With hindsight perhaps contract negotiations should have commenced earlier…

Contract negotiations need a level of certainty & commitment from both parties.

Jack would have been asking one clear question - will Voss be coach?

U don’t sign a multi year deal when u have no faith in the game plan or the coaches ability.

 

[passmark]

U don’t sign a multi year deal when u have no faith in the game plan or the coaches ability.

Might be another reason they moved on Goodwin

 

[CarmenSandiego]

JSOS should’ve known that TDK’s decision had a huge bearing on the salary cap and what we can offer.
Sounds like too many outside influences (eg. Manager and the like) are pushing him in other directions

I disagree.

I don’t think JSOS leaving would ruin us or anything, and maybe he is sooking it up a bit, but to not reassure him with at least an opening offer for a contract by August is straight up incompetence.

It’s his career, he needs security by the time July/August rolls around.

If the club can’t open contract talks with anyone because one player is holding everything up then they must be pretty ****ing useless at their jobs.

 

[Sonny Jim]

This is exactly what I heard as well. Disappointing on our behalf, but I still feel he is a chance to stay.

I understood that he already had an offer from us for months but held off, then the pies offered more and we essentially matched.
This 'rumour' sounds pretty conflicting.

 

[TheThunderboltKid]

I disagree.

I don’t think JSOS leaving would ruin us or anything, and maybe he is sooking it up a bit, but to not reassure him with at least an opening offer for a contract by August is straight up incompetence.

It’s his career, he needs security by the time July/August rolls around.

If the club can’t open contract talks with anyone because one player is holding everything up then they must be pretty ****ing useless at their jobs.

You think they made their first offer last week?

 

[DollarsandSense]

Does anyone really think that JSOS will be able to come back after 'shopping' himself around and meeting with other teams/coaches etc. I don't want him to go... but all signs point to him leaving.. So... see ya.
Bring on the new batch of kids, or some strategic recruiting.

 

[branedotorg]

Does anyone really think that JSOS will be able to come back after 'shopping' himself around and meeting with other teams/coaches etc. I don't want him to go... but all signs point to him leaving.. So... see ya.
Bring on the new batch of kids, or some strategic recruiting.

he can come back, that would be easy spin. "favourite son turns back on arch enemy, cites love of boyhood club'

 

[swuzzlebubble]

he can come back, that would be easy spin. "favourite son turns back on arch enemy, cites love of boyhood club'

Yep there's potential trades every year that fall through. Everyone moves on, mostly

 

[jimsta10]

The latest JSOS rumour makes it sound a lot like a communication breakdown somewhere between the player, the manager, and the list team. If so, Wright closing the loop and talking to JSOS directly was clearly the right move, and I guess now we just wait and see what happens.

I think he brought the heat on himself and its more a case of his management team trying to smooth over whats already happened. I still dont believe hes acted in the clubs best interests, but yes let wait and see.

 

[Sonny Jim]

I wouldn't sell it as a mentor, if we went that way. The coach has to feel they have the autonomy to do things their way. If it's a coach who doesn't have a ready made senior assistant to come with them, a coaching director like Ken Hinkley might be okay. However, if we got Jimmy Bartel as a footy manager, he'd be just as handy to bounce things off. We saw a rumour about Corey Enright too ... senior coach or senior assistant. I see some fresh and vibrant ideas there.



Hayden Skipworth (42), Jaymie Graham (42), Nathan van Berlo (39)

However, we may have a senior coach in our ranks. Luke Power is 45. Assistant coach at GWS for 5 years, AFL Academy coach for 3 years, Head of Development at Carlton for 2 and a half years (2019-2021), Stoppages coach for the rest of the year and won the Assistant Coach of the year at the AFLCA awards. Then starting coaching the twos. If there is something to take out of this season, the coming on of Moir, O'Farrell, Carroll, White, Cowan is it. Power has not been an assistant to Voss. He was shifted to the VFL team at the same time Voss started. He has degrees of separation from the mess our senior team became. It is interesting to me that Power has largely gone away from portions of the senior game plan, and we have benefitted as a result.

Scott Burns a lesser chance for me, but he has some pedigree. Just hasn't been around the ultimate success.

Have heard for a number of years that Burns is very highly regarded as a potential senior coach.

I wouldn't be against Power taking over the top job (just quietly), but would need some genuine, serious support from the footy department and assistants. Which would seem to be our biggest issue at the moment.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Jacks manager has been shipping him round for months, which is consistent with them getting annoyed that Carlton hadn’t engaged with them at that point.

It’s also consistent with manager and/or player acting like children imo. It was barely a third of the way through the season when they started doing it.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

This is exactly what I heard as well. Disappointing on our behalf, but I still feel he is a chance to stay.

if he leaves, he will regret it sooner than later...

And the Pies will fall off a cliff in any event.

 

[CoachB]

I always felt Goodwin was a complete disastercase coach who happened to have a few really good years.

Rather than a great premiership winning coach who had a couple of bad years.

Not sure if that's fair.

Mark Williams came in at the right time, that guy is a killer, won't be a head coach again but has forgotten more about footy than Goodwin knows.

 

[CoachB]

Yep, players can’t blame the club, given the TDK decision has a massive bearing on available salary cap.

Didn't stop them extending Cerra...