List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[PJays]

If TDK doesn't work out for us there'll still be a team out there that will give at least a first round draft pick for him in two years time.
That's what we're paying the money for. A good player that has intrinsic value in the draft/trade system. That cost nothing to us in the draft/trade system.
TDK isn't a big risk at all.
He'll always be worth more than what we gave up.

Not a risk?

I was ready to drop my anti-TDK comments for a while again, until I saw this

In 2 years if TDK hasn't become a superstar, who'll want to be saddled with his contract?

The risk is we end up like Collingwood with Grundy and Treloar, paying a 3rd of TDK's massive contract for the privilege of watching him playing for the opposition.

Or like Carlton who have too many overpaid players and lose players to other clubs.

We're hoping he becomes a star. Consistently a top 2 or 3 ruck in the AFL for the duration of his contract and a genuine game changing, elite player. Multiple AA appearances.

That's the only way this deal makes sense for St Kilda.

 

[Joffaboy]

I’d say it’s pretty even negative to positive with most in the middle. As you can see it tends to set off a chain reaction. One side says something that fires everyone up and it’s on.

It's not, as Dard said binary positive, negative, it the jumping to ridiculous conclusions from an unverified tweet or some flog like Rucci and taking it as gospel.
You would probably label me as a positive in your binary world. I said months ago that losing Naz would be an epic disaster, but would let it play out.

We just get tired of the henny penny worst case scenario, without foundation.

The Rucci case was an example, we were losing players a mass exodus, Bassatt and SoS had to be sacked and the club was a disaster. After Lyon on FC, complete radio silence from the panick merchants.
Anyone can play the victim, easier to see the worst in everything and react to every piece of BS published.

 

[bergholt]

Good post Berg (if i was an arseh*le id note that this still means Rowell, TDK and NAS wouldnt fit but im not so i wont).

Whats the substitute player limit? Ive never seen that before?

Basically they messed with the cap when they brought in the sub rule, and then when they brought in Gather Round (an extra game). Payments for subs or playing in Gather Round are included in the cap overall, but aren't included for the purposes of player contracts that were pegged as a percentage of the total cap.

I assume that's because it would break all the budgeting for clubs, but I didn't care enough to read further.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Nas re-signing and if this comes in next year and ****s Port and Carlton.

I’d probably be driving myself to the hospital because I’ll be rock hard until round 1 next year.

Finally, common sense prevails! Omg, the melts on the Port and Carlton boards will be orgasmic if this happens.

We should also bring in a retrospective stripping of all previous father sons in the last 10 years

 

[Saints43]

Not a risk?

I was ready to drop my anti-TDK comments for a while again, until I saw this

In 2 years if TDK hasn't become a superstar, who'll want to be saddled with his contract?

The risk is we end up like Collingwood with Grundy and Treloar, paying a 3rd of TDK's massive contract for the privilege of watching him playing for the opposition.

We're hoping he becomes a star. Consistently a top 2 or 3 ruck in the AFL for the duration of his contract and a genuine game changing, elite player. Multiple AA appearances.

That's the only way this deal makes sense for St Kilda.

Not a big risk.
He's already a good player.
He'll always have value in the draft. And we paid no draft capital. He'll always be worth more than we gave up to get him.
We're hoping he becomes a star? Well spotted.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Honestly, though, do you guys need another midfielder especially one who, with all due respect to him, doesn't have elite disposal? I mean wouldn't you be better throwing Duursma at another team to get a tall forward/back?

We badly need a big-bodied 2-way running midfielder. Our defensive transitional running has lost us a few otherwise winnable games this year. Sounds weird given our midfield investment, but its a real need.

In terms of our best 23, it means we could bugger Bailey Scott off in the short term, and replace Parker in the medium term.

2 months ago I would have said a KPF was our number one priority this trade season. Since then Trembath's kicked 6 in his first two games. Obviously too early to say we've definitely got one there, but signs are good, and in any case, between him, Larkey and Darling we should be able to muddle through until Whitlock is ready.

I agree upgrading our key defender stocks should be a priority. Logue has been too conditional and flakey. Pink is an honest trier. I don't expect Wilkie will leave you guys despite the media posturing, but in terms of quality and experience, he's pretty much the prototype of what we should be after.

Anyway. Since this is your club's list thread and not North's, I'll finish by saying I was glad to see NWM stick fat with your mob, and look forward to whatever wild shenanigans you guys pull off this trade season.

 

[Remboy]

Would they also like our first born children?

Don’t panic. Apparently there’s a second part to the trade. We’re getting LDU for Byrnes.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Don’t panic. Apparently there’s a second part to the trade. We’re getting LDU for Byrnes.

 

[MightySaint]

We badly need a big-bodied 2-way running midfielder. Our defensive transitional running has lost us a few otherwise winnable games this year. Sounds weird given our midfield investment, but its a real need.

In terms of our best 23, it means we could bugger Bailey Scott off in the short term, and replace Parker in the medium term.

2 months ago I would have said a KPF was our number one priority this trade season. Since then Trembath's kicked 6 in his first two games. Obviously too early to say we've definitely got one there, but signs are good, and in any case, between him, Larkey and Darling we should be able to muddle through until Whitlock is ready.

I agree upgrading our key defender stocks should be a priority. Logue has been too conditional and flakey. Pink is an honest trier. I don't expect Wilkie will leave you guys despite the media posturing, but in terms of quality and experience, he's pretty much the prototype of what we should be after.

Anyway. Since this is your club's list thread and not North's, I'll finish by saying I was glad to see NWM stick fat with your mob, and look forward to whatever wild shenanigans you guys pull off this trade season.

Out of interest, what's the go with Charlie Comben? Looked excellent in patches last year, have barely heard anything about him this year.

 

[PJays]

Not a big risk.

Making someone the second highest paid player in the AFL, on an 8 year contract, when that player is 26 years old and hasn't demonstrated excellence (B&F finishes, AA appearances, AFLCA coaches votes, etc)

Honestly don't understand how anybody living in the real world (not some St Kilda fantasy land) could suggest that isn't a big risk.

 

[OxSaint]

It's been widely reported we're offering Aleer $900k a year.

Have you got other information?

Higgins, Hall, Butler, Henry, Collard.

How many do we need?

If Butler and Phillipou are fit, and Henry starts showing his potential more consistently (he's still 23 and coming off a 9-month knee injury), and Hall is rotating between forward and mid... will Liam Ryan even be in our best 22?

Or will he add that much value over those guys (who would be jettisoned to VFL with Ryan playing)

And the other thing I mentioned- offering Windy 2 years when he's amply demonstrated his worth. 36 disposals and 3 coaches votes 2 weeks ago.

St Kilda is just making unwise moves.

I don't understand why so many fans here seem so sycophantic towards our own club. We should be holding the club to account and wanting them to make smart moves.

Criticising poor moves is considered "negative" instead of what it is- wanting success for your club by arguing for better decisions.

It's bizarre TBH.

The Aleer contract has been over reported. Tim Watson reported he was correct on it at the same time he was told the Harley Ried stuff was wrong and it’s more like $600k with performance clause that could take it to $700k. Outside of you, no one believes Aleer is on the hook for $900k. It’s honestly laughable to believe it.

Our smalls aren't good enough. You can list as many names as you like. Higgins and Hall are the only ones worth playing in the 1’s this year and Max has been spending a lot more time out of the forward line.

Ryan walks into our forward line behind only Higgins as a small forward.

 

[Saints43]

Making someone the second highest paid player in the AFL, on an 8 year contract, when that player is 26 years old and hasn't demonstrated excellence (B&F finishes, AA appearances, AFLCA coaches votes, etc)

Honestly don't understand how anybody living in the real world (not some St Kilda fantasy land) could suggest that isn't a big risk.

Only if you ignore all of the positive aspects of the deal. Which you're determined to do.

 

[SainterinSydney]

1	Liam Ryan	88	3	0	12	10	2	6	4	0	0	279	0	84

Flyin Ryan v Crows round 22

1	Liam Ryan	82	2	1	14	10	4	4	5	0	4	409	2	81

Flyin Ryan v Saints round 10

 

[PJays]

The Aleer contract has been over reported. Tim Watson reported he was correct on it at the same time he was told the Harley Ried stuff was wrong and it’s more like $600k with performance clause that could take it to $700k. Outside of you, no one believes Aleer is on the hook for $900k. It’s honestly laughable to believe it.

I was just going off what I heard in the media.

12 months ago I would've said it was laughable we offer Tom De Koning $1.7 million a year for 8 years.

Yet here we are, and most posters are supportive of the idea.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Out of interest, what's the go with Charlie Comben? Looked excellent in patches last year, have barely heard anything about him this year.

He's doing ok. Still capable of a great intercept mark, but ever prone to a brain snap, which I hope can be attributed to him still learning the ropes as a key defender, with no Sam Taylor/Harris Andrews/Wilkie caliber team mate to learn from.

Long term I imagine he'd play a Lever style role very well alongside a May-style lockdown defender.

 

[PJays]

Only if you ignore all of the positive aspects of the deal. Which you're determined to do.

I'm not ignoring anything

You keep referencing "draft capital"

Collingwood got pick 27 for Grundy. And he was a 2 time AA!!

They got pick 14 for Treloar but had to give up three picks to get it. Including pick 26.

And again, Collingwood was paying a 3rd of their salaries (still are?)

Again look at Carlton.

You talking as if there's no significant downside potential is pure cuckoo straightjacket stuff.

 

[SainterinSydney]

The father son thread on the Blues' board is all about how Bassatt has a punchable face and St Kilda should be abolished

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I'm absolutely thrilled that we've signed Nas, but I'm more and more concerned about this haul of players that we're targeting.

Who is actually going to make us better?

TDK is not better than Marshall
Aleer is not better than Caminiti
Ryan is not better than Butler

And none of those pairs are going to play in the same area of the field. You only have one number one ruck, you can't carry two tall defenders who can't kick and there's only room for one more small forward alongside Higgins and Hall.

If the strategy is "let's make finals over the next two years to convince Nas to stay", I don't see how these these recruits move the needle at all. I guess Aleer and Ryan add depth?

Seems like we're prematurely changing course after doing a lot of good work building through the draft. With that said, maybe we do end up trading out Marshall and Steele for picks. It all seems very sideways though.

 

[OxSaint]

OK, but he's taken 87 contested marks in 124 games. Hardly ground-breaking stuff in terms of consistent output.

Phillipou has a great set of hands in the half-forward line.

Yep his 3 touches a games are very impressive in the forward line.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Surely my boy Windy isn't leaving... Just move back in with Nas and make him pay all the bills

 

[PJays]

I'm absolutely thrilled that we've signed Nas, but I'm more and more concerned about this haul of players that we're targeting.

Who is actually going to make us better?

TDK is not better than Marshall
Aleer is not better than Caminiti
Ryan is not better than Butler

And none of those pairs are going to play in the same area of the field. You only have one number one ruck, you can't carry two tall defenders who can't kick and there's only room for one more small forward alongside Higgins and Hall.

If the strategy is "let's make finals over the next two years to convince Nas to stay", I don't see how these these recruits move the needle at all. I guess Aleer and Ryan add depth?

Seems like we're prematurely changing course after doing a lot of good work building through the draft. With that said, maybe we do end up trading out Marshall and Steele for picks. It all seems very sideways though.

Be warned

You're about to face an onslaught of debate from the easily triggered, who have greater knowledge than you.

The only attitude allowed is overwhelming excitement that a few players are willing to walk across the red carpet we're rolling out, and join the mighty Saints.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Surely my boy Windy isn't leaving... Just move back in with Nas and make him pay all the bills

Look who is back from the naughty corner.

 

[marcus1232]

King back will help the other forwards no doubt, but I don't see how you could be confident he kicks 60 next year. He has kicked over 50 once. He will be coming off 3 years of very little footy. I will be ecstatic if we can get 40 out of him.

If I was a betting man, I would back Sharman to kick more than King next year. Coops is ready to explode.

If both play 22 games King monsters Sharman in goals

 

[Saints43]

I'm not ignoring anything

You keep referencing "draft capital"

Collingwood got pick 27 for Grundy. And he was a 2 time AA!!

They got pick 14 for Treloar but had to give up three picks to get it. Including pick 26.

And again, Collingwood was paying a 3rd of their salaries (still are?)

Again look at Carlton.

You talking as if there's no significant downside potential is pure cuckoo straightjacket stuff.

The Collingwood situation is a pretty specific/extreme example. Grundy was also 30 I think. TDK is 26.
Anyway, go back to calling him Vibes.
That was a zinger.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Look who is back from the naughty corner.

and this place is better for it.

Naughty corner for the Nas news was tough scenes.

I told you all it was happening at training and then we could all jump in the CJ after