The Liberal Party - How long? - Part 2

[Hojuman]

I guess the only positive about the Brethren’s huge and dodgy intervention into the Libs is how spectacularly unsuccessful it was.

Hey religious zealots - we’re a secular nation. We’re not ****ed up by religion like America is, and no amount of whipped-up zeal in your closed world about some glorious future reign of your deity on earth is going to result in Australia miraculously embracing your peculiar belief system.

So just **** off, clear?

‘I’m glad we didn’t win’: Liberal campaigners feared Brethren-fuelled Dutton victory

The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church was so enmeshed in local Liberal campaigns that they were cleaning candidates’ houses. Now a new inquiry has been launched.

www.smh.com.au

One of my wishes before l shuffle off this mortal coil is to see an Australian P.M. not attend the religious church service before the opening of a new parliament;

" No, l'm an atheist. I won't be there "

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

One of my wishes before l shuffle off this mortal coil is to see an Australian P.M. not attend the religious church service before the opening of a new parliament;

" No, l'm an atheist. I won't be there "

Me too. And the world will be a much better place when America finally grows up enough to elect an atheist president.

 

[kalex6251]

the age has released another article* on the involvement of the exclusive brethren in this years fed election campaign

cleaning the houses of lib candidates is next level weirdness (and they were already turning the weird dial up to 11)

* the age has been heavily criticised for its journalistic decline over the years ..... but fair play to them here - theyve gone after this unethical mob for nearly a decade (and rightly so)

 

[GrayRanga]

One of my wishes before l shuffle off this mortal coil is to see an Australian P.M. not attend the religious church service before the opening of a new parliament;

" No, l'm an atheist. I won't be there "

Julia Gillard didn't swear an Oath but gave an affimation'of Office following her swearing in to the position of Prime Minister

I think that is more important than deciding to attend a non-denominational church service based on 125 years of Australian precedence and a few centuries of prior British practice

I suppose you wouldn't attend a funeral in a Church for your best mate due to your religious purity?

PS: Seen that in a small Country town, where some Catholics refused to attend the funeral of one of the stalwarts of the town community because he was being buried from a Methodist Church

 

[Cyber_punk]

Me too. And the world will be a much better place when America finally grows up enough to elect an atheist president.

I'd say there have already been several including Trump. But openly admitting it? Never going to happen there.

 

[Hojuman]

Julia Gillard didn't swear an Oath but gave an affimation'of Office following her swearing in to the position of Prime Minister

I think that is more important than deciding to attend a non-denominational church service based on 125 years of Australian precedence and a few centuries of prior British practice

I suppose you wouldn't attend a funeral in a Church for your best mate due to your religious purity?

PS: Seen that in a small Country town, where some Catholics refused to attend the funeral of one of the stalwarts of the town community because he was being buried from a Methodist Church

I don't associate with any religious people, and it's not " purity " All religion is inherently evil and a fiction.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I'd say there have already been several including Trump. But openly admitting it? Never going to happen there.

Yep, I should have said “openly atheist”.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

* the age has been heavily criticised for its journalistic decline over the years ..... but fair play to them here - theyve gone after this unethical mob for nearly a decade (and rightly so)

This. The Nine papers may not be what they used to be, but other than Four Corners, who in Australia does the sort of investigative journalism the Nine papers still do? No-one. Really important to keep supporting them, for all their disappointing flaws.

 

[Roobs321]

that was a fascinating Insiders interview duel between Speers & Ley, both brought their A game. David deftly set a barrage of traps for Sussan to navigate, and she stayed disciplined and wriggled through mostly unscathed on a range of issues. Highlighted a lot of open-ended issues with their policies that give you pause, but Ley is definitely the right person to lead that party along a fine line presently. They'll eventually roll her but they need her desperately now.

 

[QuietB]

I guess the only positive about the Brethren’s huge and dodgy intervention into the Libs is how spectacularly unsuccessful it was.

Hey religious zealots - we’re a secular nation. We’re not ****ed up by religion like America is, and no amount of whipped-up zeal in your closetted world about some glorious future reign of your deity on earth is going to result in Australia miraculously embracing your peculiar belief system.

So just **** off, clear?

‘I’m glad we didn’t win’: Liberal campaigners feared Brethren-fuelled Dutton victory

The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church was so enmeshed in local Liberal campaigns that they were cleaning candidates’ houses. Now a new inquiry has been launched.

www.smh.com.au

The issue is not that the Brethren tried to weasel their way in. They were simply filling a vacuum.

The real issue is that the Liberals do not have the grass roots resources to actually run a proper campaign or be a proper opposition or barely even a proper political party.

They are a bunch of boomers shouting at clouds + Sky + Advance + The Brethren.

A mate of mine who is a Liberal guy actually conceded just after the last election that the Liberals need to be in government and need the resources of government just to function properly as a party. And as soon as they lose those resources they collapse into a scattered mess of opposing and generally directionless grievances and interests. It was a en extraordinary admission.

That leaves a vacuum and the vacuum gets filled by Sky + Advance + The Brethren and what ever other extreme groups have money or influence.

They have been trading on good will for the last 20+ years and it is starting to run out.

 

[QuietB]

This. The Nine papers may not be what they used to be, but other than Four Corners, who in Australia does the sort of investigative journalism the Nine papers still do? No-one. Really important to keep supporting them, for all their disappointing flaws.

There are really good independents + The Guardian but no one reads them. Saturday Paper, The Monthly, Crickey, Michael West.....

The issue in Australia is Murdoch has 70% market concentration and they use this power to determine the entire national agenda to the point it even determines the ABC's programming.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

There are really good independents + The Guardian but no one reads them. Saturday Paper, The Monthly, Crickey, Michael West.....

The issue in Australia is Murdoch has 70% market concentration and they use this power to determine the entire national agenda to the point it even determines the ABC's programming.

Yeah I read them all but none of them have the investigative oomph of the Nine papers.

 

[Chadwiko]

This is very amusing;




These cookers genuinely think they are the "silent majority" because they operate in an absolute delusional echo chamber on Elon's twitter.

You would think the abject and repeated failure of the "freedom" parties at state and Commonwealth elections would be a rude awakening for these muppets. Alas...

 

[Cyg1992]

This is very amusing;




These cookers genuinely think they are the "silent majority" because they operate in an absolute delusional echo chamber on Elon's twitter.

You would think the abject and repeated failure of the "freedom" parties at state and Commonwealth elections would be a rude awakening for these muppets. Alas...

That'd be excellent. Keep splitting their vote even further.

 

[Sphynx]

That'd be excellent. Keep splitting their vote even further.

Not really.

Would be interesting to see the performance of the moderate liberals more aligned with the teals and without their far right baggage attached to them.

Would take a bite out of the ALP voter pool
IMO.

 

[The Punter]

A mate of mine who is a Liberal guy actually conceded just after the last election that the Liberals need to be in government and need the resources of government just to function properly as a party. And as soon as they lose those resources they collapse into a scattered mess of opposing and generally directionless grievances and interests. It was a en extraordinary admission.

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to give you this intel. It's always been the way. The ALP is built to succeed in opposition because they have resources at their disposal all the time. The Libs have always needed the resources of government. Oppositions need people on the payroll and only one major party can manage it, and it's been this way for a long time.

On your grass roots point, the ALP don't have grass roots resources of themselves either: they have the trade union movement. The Liberal Party (and every other political party in the country) only has their members. Every single union member contributes to the ALP (voluntarily or without their full knowledge), and it represents around 1 in every 7 employed people in the country. If 1 out of every 7 employed people was contributing to the Liberal Party, either through membership or financial contributions, the landscape would look very different: in short, the Liberal Party would be more powerful and more centrist.

 

[Bombermania]

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to give you this intel. It's always been the way. The ALP is built to succeed in opposition because they have resources at their disposal all the time. The Libs have always needed the resources of government. Oppositions need people on the payroll and only one major party can manage it, and it's been this way for a long time.

On your grass roots point, the ALP don't have grass roots resources of themselves either: they have the trade union movement. The Liberal Party (and every other political party in the country) only has their members. Every single union member contributes to the ALP (voluntarily or without their full knowledge), and it represents around 1 in every 7 employed people in the country. If 1 out of every 7 employed people was contributing to the Liberal Party, either through membership or financial contributions, the landscape would look very different: in short, the Liberal Party would be more powerful and more centrist.

Never understood why the Liberal Party haven't sought to align itself with like minded professional bodies in the same way Labor is aligned with the unions.

 

[The Punter]

Never understood why the Liberal Party haven't sought to align itself with like minded professional bodies in the same way Labor is aligned with the unions.

Because the union movement and the ALP aren't merely aligned. The ALP is the political wing of the union movement.

And the UAP (the Lyons one not the Palmer one) failed in part because it was too close to business, so Menzies pursued a mass membership party which was fantastic for a long time but no longer.

The following statement is open to criticism because of how the Liberal Party has behaved, and I'll leave that criticism unresponded from me.

The Liberal Party, if it because aligned officially with professional bodies, would cease being a party of values. It would become a party of interests like every other political party in Australia. The downside of actually being a party of values is you cannot go to any specific group and say "we will work for you, so help us get elected". They would know that eventually we wouldn't have their backs on a specific issue because it wouldn't align with universal values.

All this is really hard to keep going at the best of times, and times when mass membership organisations are crumbling and organisations like the Brethren are seeking to make the most of opportunities are not the best of times.

So that is why the Liberal Party has sought no official alignment.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The more you think about it, the more you realise the signs of decline have been there for a very long time.

A former three-term Liberal PM (Fraser) and a former Liberal leader (Hewson) both renouncing their memberships of the party they once once led - that is unprecedented, and a sign that things were already getting seriously awry a long time ago.

 

[The Punter]

The more you think about it, the more you realise the signs of decline have been there for a very long time.

A former three-term Liberal PM (Fraser) and a former Liberal leader (Hewson) both renouncing their memberships of the party they once once led - that is unprecedented, and a sign that things were already getting seriously awry a long time ago.

Both seen as on the right of the party during their own time.

 

[QuietB]

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to give you this intel. It's always been the way. The ALP is built to succeed in opposition because they have resources at their disposal all the time. The Libs have always needed the resources of government. Oppositions need people on the payroll and only one major party can manage it, and it's been this way for a long time.

On your grass roots point, the ALP don't have grass roots resources of themselves either: they have the trade union movement. The Liberal Party (and every other political party in the country) only has their members. Every single union member contributes to the ALP (voluntarily or without their full knowledge), and it represents around 1 in every 7 employed people in the country. If 1 out of every 7 employed people was contributing to the Liberal Party, either through membership or financial contributions, the landscape would look very different: in short, the Liberal Party would be more powerful and more centrist.

I have always argued that the greatest advantage of the union movement to the ALP (noting that the union movement is not just the militant construction unions and similar - it includes teachers, nurses, the entire public service, etc.) is it keeps the ALP at least close to where it is meant to be. The union movement for better or worse moderates the ALP.

A lack of moderation is one of the LNP's biggest weaknesses. It is the reason that groups like Advance, Sky, Christian fundamentalists, etc. can come in and insist that the party bends to their will.

Because the union movement and the ALP aren't merely aligned. The ALP is the political wing of the union movement.

The LNP was the political wing of the elites. Although the elites seemed to have abandoned them. I guess they don't need to bother too much when they have the ALP equally captured.

 

[The Punter]

The LNP was the political wing of the elites. Although the elites seemed to have abandoned them. I guess they don't need to bother too much when they have the ALP equally captured.

While the Libs may have done the political bidding of the elites on many occasions, it is not the same. The ALP's relationship to the union movement is structural. ALP State Conferences have seats allotted to trade unions.

 

[QuietB]

While the Libs may have done the political bidding of the elites on many occasions, it is not the same. The ALP's relationship to the union movement is structural. ALP State Conferences have seats allotted to trade unions.

Agree although I always find it a little bit slimy by the Liberals to push this point. It is the same as how they endlessly carry on that they don't have factions just because they are not formal - but of course the Liberals have factions.

 

[The Punter]

Agree although I always find it a little bit slimy by the Liberals to push this point. It is the same as how they endlessly carry on that they don't have factions just because they are not formal - but of course the Liberals have factions.

Trust me: I can see the advantages of having formal factions. I've often joked I need a briefing paper every time I walk into a meeting to see who is with who this time. They are undoubtedly groupings and factions in the Liberal Party.

But the ALP membership don't decide the candidates, and less and less decide the policy (but are supposed to). Liberal members have never decided the policy but have nearly always decided the candidates (except "exceptional" circumstances).

 

[Not Important]

marque lawyers (@marquelawyers.com.au)

The Libs need to at least decide exactly how racist they want to be, as a basic starting point for the path to being less embarrassing

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