AFL Player 5: Elijah Tsatas

[Nuggs Bunny]

 

[Chief Hopper]

I can't help but feel this is going to be a lose/lose for us .. that if we keep him he's just going to plod along same as usual. But if he leaves he's going to explode into an amazing player

For a number 5 draft pick I'd expect him to be instantly playable in any team for the following season of their draft. It just hasn't worked out after a 3 years and many attempts.

I wouldn't be upset if we had Tsatas for another year, see how he goes.
But we have had other younger players now show more this year and we can't keep and develop them all.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Rumour that getting a medical at Port.

 

[Foxx]

Where did the pre draft fast outside midfielder Elijah Tsatas we drafted go?
This slow big bodied inside player with average foot skills won't suit this current game anywhere near as well. Even if he comes good.

 

[Lore]

Rumour that getting a medical at Port.

And Adelaide, Collingwood and Richmond iirc

 

[EnolaGay]

Rumour that getting a medical at Port.

Nice, straight swap for Butters

 

[84859300]

Rumour that getting a medical at Port.

Out Tsatas
In Hinkley

 

[ant555]

If tubby 03-04 Jobe Watson hadn't become one of the game's best midfielders for a 4-5 year period, then I would believe that. Jobe always had elite characteristics, but endurance was clearly not one of them when drafted.

There are many other examples.

And the game is different again now. Also Jobe had endurance. He just didn’t work hard enough early on. Unlike Tsatas who has worked hard since he arrived.

There is no endurance tap you can turn on. When you are at your level you are at your level.

 

[Atavistic]

Out Tsatas
In Hinkley

 

[bacon buster]

And the game is different again now. Also Jobe had endurance. He just didn’t work hard enough early on. Unlike Tsatas who has worked hard since he arrived.

There is no endurance tap you can turn on. When you are at your level you are at your level.

I don't follow the VFL closely. Is he gassed in those games too? Or is it only at AFL level that he appears unable to run out a full game?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

And the game is different again now. Also Jobe had endurance. He just didn’t work hard enough early on. Unlike Tsatas who has worked hard since he arrived.

There is no endurance tap you can turn on. When you are at your level you are at your level.

Could always get on the EPO.

 

[bombersim]

I’d consider trading him for Duursma from north, but nothing less than a second rounder. Otherwise it’s just a waste of time.

Will probably be low cost and great for a team that needs a ball winner, and can put players around him that can actually kick. We have far too many accumulators though.
It also stings to watch Humphrey dominate a final, and we’ve got a bloke that can’t kick…

Even worse, the guy that picked him is still there with his hands on the wheel - the dodo protégé.

 

[ant555]

I don't follow the VFL closely. Is he gassed in those games too? Or is it only at AFL level that he appears unable to run out a full game?

Same. Pace of the game allows him to go longer but he has not been one who runs out strong quarters week in and week out

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Same. Pace of the game allows him to go longer but he has not been one who runs out strong quarters week in and week out

 

[Call Me Cake]

Was injured during his first pre-season and first year, so he was always going to be behind the eight ball from the get go. As he develops and we shed list cloggers in said position he'll transfer the strengths he had in his pre-draft to the main game.

Kicking is a non-issue, as he learns to gain more space he'll have more time to dispose of it/think through the motions, and plenty of players have shown that it can improve. Even then kicking isn't such a prerequisite if you excel at your main strength in getting it to those who can.

Will be a raging bull in the middle and all of you will love it.

 

[dondolla]

Was injured during his first pre-season and first year, so he was always going to be behind the eight ball from the get go. As he develops and we shed list cloggers in said position he'll transfer the strengths he had in his pre-draft to the main game.

Kicking is a non-issue, as he learns to gain more space he'll have more time to dispose of it/think through the motions, and plenty of players have shown that it can improve. Even then kicking isn't such a prerequisite if you excel at your main strength in getting it to those who can.

Will be a raging bull in the middle and all of you will love it.

I love your confidence in him. I’d love to agree with you too. Finding space isn’t his issue. Not many players are good kicks in congestion. It’s when he gets into space that it’s so evident how poor it is, and it’s happens pretty regularly unfortunately in both his afl and vfl games. He’s probably the worst kick on the current list and I’m including Draper in that.

I don’t think he’s a bull either, and I think that’s half the issue. Look at Wardlaw, his kicking is poor and he doesn’t even win heaps of the ball but it doesn’t really matter because people find players like that endearing. Durham’s kicking is pretty bang average too, but people don’t worry about that because he’s always max effort and isn’t worried about putting his body in compromising positions for the team. I’ve never seen Elijah do anything like that. If he did, people would forgive his shortcomings heaps more and he’d probably have played 15 more afl games (and not as many as the sub). Unfortunately you can’t teach that stuff either.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Was injured during his first pre-season and first year, so he was always going to be behind the eight ball from the get go. As he develops and we shed list cloggers in said position he'll transfer the strengths he had in his pre-draft to the main game.

Kicking is a non-issue, as he learns to gain more space he'll have more time to dispose of it/think through the motions, and plenty of players have shown that it can improve. Even then kicking isn't such a prerequisite if you excel at your main strength in getting it to those who can.

Will be a raging bull in the middle and all of you will love it.

Agree 100%.
He's barely played any footy the past 3 years. Let him get a good run at it first before writing him off. The obsession with kicking efficiency is over-rated. Sure, he makes errors at times but show me a player who doesn't make errors. He finds the ball and that's 3/4 of the battle.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Agree 100%.
He's barely played any footy the past 3 years. Let him get a good run at it first before writing him off. The obsession with kicking efficiency is over-rated. Sure, he makes errors at times but show me a player who doesn't make errors. He finds the ball and that's 3/4 of the battle.

How to say you’ve never seen him play without saying you’ve never seen him play

 

[MPMonkeys]

How to say you’ve never seen him play without saying you’ve never seen him play

Here is some data for you. I'll compare Tsatas to some random midfielders who play a similar role. Jack Crisp, Josh Kelly. Sam Walsh, Jordan Dawson and Sam Flanders.

Disposals per clanger.
Tsatas rates the best at 9.3. Durham, Crisp & Dawson the worst with 5.25, 5.08 & 5.46 respectively
Meters gained per disposal
Dawson the highest at 20.13. Walsh and Tsatas the worst at 12.23 and 12.53 respectively
Contested possession rate
Durham and Tstatas best with 52.21 and 48.71. Kelly and Flanders worst at 32.82 and 32.19
First possession to clearance
Tsatas best at 84. Walsh and Crisp worst at 68.33 and 72

Where he needs to Improve
Pressure Acts
Tsatas worst at 10.8. Then Flanders at 12.40. The others are all in the high teens or twenties
Kicking efficiency
Tsatas worst at 42.5. Crisp best at 60

If he can get his kicking efficiency up to 50, then we will have a real player. He is an inside player with a handball first mentality and he usually chooses the right options by hand as evident by the high first possession to clearance number.

The game is evolving a little over the past few years where elite hands are a real asset. He is a weapon in that regards.

 

[bacon buster]

And the game is different again now. Also Jobe had endurance. He just didn’t work hard enough early on. Unlike Tsatas who has worked hard since he arrived.

There is no endurance tap you can turn on. When you are at your level you are at your level.

I mean I'm not saying you're right or wrong. But how did you know he had endurance? He could barely last 5 mins out on the field without being gassed in his first few years.

Are there tests they do on players to detect potential VO2max? And if so, why, in this day and age of cutting edge sports science, did we not do these background checks on Elijah?

 

[bacon buster]

Here is some data for you. I'll compare Tsatas to some random midfielders who play a similar role. Jack Crisp, Josh Kelly. Sam Walsh, Jordan Dawson and Sam Flanders.

Disposals per clanger.
Tsatas rates the best at 9.3. Durham, Crisp & Dawson the worst with 5.25, 5.08 & 5.46 respectively
Meters gained per disposal
Dawson the highest at 20.13. Walsh and Tsatas the worst at 12.23 and 12.53 respectively
Contested possession rate
Durham and Tstatas best with 52.21 and 48.71. Kelly and Flanders worst at 32.82 and 32.19
First possession to clearance
Tsatas best at 84. Walsh and Crisp worst at 68.33 and 72

Where he needs to Improve
Pressure Acts
Tsatas worst at 10.8. Then Flanders at 12.40. The others are all in the high teens or twenties
Kicking efficiency
Tsatas worst at 42.5. Crisp best at 60

If he can get his kicking efficiency up to 50, then we will have a real player. He is an inside player with a handball first mentality and he usually chooses the right options by hand as evident by the high first possession to clearance number.

The game is evolving a little over the past few years where elite hands are a real asset. He is a weapon in that regards.

I'm guessing the pressure acts is a combo of A. not being on the ground at all, and B. being unable to enage in second and third efforts when on the ground?

I'm in the camp to keep him. I think we need to give him a run next year. We lost 14 games in a row ffs. We surely wasted some development potential this year on him already.

 

[MPMonkeys]

I'm guessing the pressure acts is a combo of A. not being on the ground at all, and B. being unable to enage in second and third efforts when on the ground?

I'm in the camp to keep him. I think we need to give him a run next year. We lost 14 games in a row ffs. We surely wasted some development potential this year on him already.

Yes, you'd imagine so. Goes to ant555 's point about his endurance.

 

[andleanback]

And the game is different again now. Also Jobe had endurance. He just didn’t work hard enough early on. Unlike Tsatas who has worked hard since he arrived.

There is no endurance tap you can turn on. When you are at your level you are at your level.

I dispute that jobe had endurance, he’s said multiple times he rarely ran more than 10km in a game

 

[ant555]

I mean I'm not saying you're right or wrong. But how did you know he had endurance? He could barely last 5 mins out on the field without being gassed in his first few years.

Are there tests they do on players to detect potential VO2max? And if so, why, in this day and age of cutting edge sports science, did we not do these background checks on Elijah?

Tsatas missed too much football in his under 18 year to really get much of a guide.
He didn’t have the fitness base.

 

[dondolla]

Tsatas missed too much football in his under 18 year to really get much of a guide.
He didn’t have the fitness base.

How long does it have to be before it’s reasonable to expect him to have afl standard fitness then? Sure he had a few injury issues, more than two years ago mind you. I know he hurt his hamstring this year but this conversation started before then.

He’s paid to be an afl footballer after all. At the end of 2023, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. At the end of 2024, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. Now, at the end of 2025, the focus for him will be to get fitter. I haven’t mentioned in all of those discussions, the other point would’ve been that he needs to sort his kicking out. Essendon’s two biggest needs are good runners and good ball users, of which he is neither.

 

[bacon buster]

Tsatas missed too much football in his under 18 year to really get much of a guide.
He didn’t have the fitness base.

Yeah but he's not unique there? I don't see how that could possibly be relevant 3 years later.
Did we not do our DD on him? I mean many young players have had injury interrpted U18 years and gone on to have much success at AFL level?