List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[phantom13]

Wtf is going on on the main board - there are people talking like Wilkie to the dogs is a foregone conclusion

More exciting for the other 16 clubs to discuss like it’s happening.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Until Gunston took them to the cleaners last week.

More to do with Adelaide's weaker midfield
That has been regularly stated in media circle's
Actually shows how serviceable those three have been for the whole season.

 

[EconomicDecline]

We don't need to lose him if we don't want to. If they want to force him out they can pay with a lot more than that even. It potentially costs us finals over the next couple of seasons and reinforces our direct competition.

Richards and Croft/Busslinger and then we may think about it. Otherwise **** off and don't waste our time.

What about Sanders and Busslinger plus ?? pick(s)? Considering Tassie will be required to swap picks for players, could be an investment.

 

[St Neil]

Someone posted a tweet that the dogs arent considering him (Bevo being the genius he is would rather stick with the status quo than take a risk).

I suspect theyll pursue Wilkie til its done or dead THEN maybe consider May, at least for them i doubt May has too many suitors.

If the Bulldogs want Wilkie then they can get their man.

Offer him a truck load of cash and then propose a massively one sided trade in St Kilda’s favour that is too good to refuse.

It’s easy. Uncomplicated. It’s just a matter of them wanting to do it badly enough. Being a serious football club.

If the Bulldogs won’t do that then they are embarrassing themselves. Not walking the talk. Yapping a big game without genuine intent.

It all looks rather sad and pathetic.

 

[littlecreatures]

good lord the main board Wilkie thread is cooked

it's mostly just tian screaming at everyone, but holy ****

The gift that keeps on giving

 

[littlecreatures]

They said the same about NAS.

I suppose Wilkie has a couple weeks to do an ACL, get caught on camera knocking back rails and tell Ross to go **** himself.

Exciting times.

I’m loving this new Saints era. Few clubs and their supporters starting to go a little cuckoo, including the little chihuahuas

 

[Remboy]

Anyone hear Grant Thomas on SEN today.
I was surprised.
Said he had never seen an era where players were so individualistic and single-minded about ‘getting a flag on their CV’.
Said that the onus was on clubs to prove to players they are going to win a flag soon …or else….

Said that 4-6 teams are serious. Implied that the rest are not, Brutal.

Cal Wilkie?

“SEN can reveal that Wilkie took a phone call from Beveridge, with the pair speaking about a potential future at the Whitten Oval.

Wilkie, 29, is contracted at the Saints until the end of 2027 and is still unlikely to leave Moorabbin, where he stands to inherit the captaincy next season.
But as reported on SEN.com.au last month, Wilkie has been disillusioned with the direction of the club for periods of 2025, particularly over its list management direction.

Now we call it click bait, and maybe so.

But I say it can be used as an excuse too.

And what is GT saying, that the other 14-16 clubs don’t deserve to have their contracts respected?

wow!

Disillusioned? Really? I very much doubt it. The club were open about the list management approach four years ago and are acting on it. What is there to be disillusioned with?
I think what GT was referring to was that the four teams playing on the weekend have played in most of the prelims for the last 25 years. It's up to the other clubs to get to that level if they want to attract and keep players.
That's where the next two seasons are so important for us. We have to be a finals side that is still moving upward.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

He can 100% be the most important piece and still not be a full time mid. Dusty was Richmond's most important piece without being a full time mid.

We'll see anyway. Having rotations makes us more able to afford him on ball full time and allows us to put him on ball without sacrificing the HB role.

Same with Hall, he's one of our best impact mids but losing him off HF loses our best kick inside 50 and a dangerous scoring threat. Ryan can play on ball in a similar way and play that high HF link up role.

Agree mate, just think the emphasis will be on him playing and impacting in the middle of the ground as much as possible. Could definitely see him being like Dusty and splitting between mid and forward the way he impacted the scoreboard in the second half of the year.

Don't think we will be sacrificing the half back role given we have another elite one in Sinclair and agree Flanders would help with that as well.

 

[Mr Platinum]

Thomas is a flog of the highest order IMO, doesn’t have a lot of mates.

My Dogs mate said straight swap Jamarra for Wilkie

Ignore the click bait bullshit, if he were to leave we would probably fill so many needs by a trade it wouldn’t be funny.

Also look out Doggies, when Baines finally leaves the Dogs he will try to rape and pillage your club like he has the Saints.

He couldn’t get a kick in the OM’s Thirds (Club XVIII) but thinks he’s some sort of wheeler and dealer.

 

[Remboy]

If the Bulldogs want Wilkie then they can get their man.

Offer him a truck load of cash and then propose a massively one sided trade in St Kilda’s favour that is too good to refuse.

It’s easy. Uncomplicated. It’s just a matter of them wanting to do it badly enough. Being a serious football club.

If the Bulldogs won’t do that then they are embarrassing themselves. Not walking the talk. Yapping a big game without genuine intent.

It all looks rather sad and pathetic.

You should post this on the main board (if you haven't already). It pretty much sums the whole situation up perfectly.

 

[Moquo]

You can’t blame me for questioning it to be fair

View attachment 2429671View attachment 2429673

Those tiny houses have come a long way

 

[SG34]

Disillusioned? Really? I very much doubt it. The club were open about the list management approach four years ago and are acting on it. What is there to be disillusioned with?
I think what GT was referring to was that the four teams playing on the weekend have played in most of the prelims for the last 25 years. It's up to the other clubs to get to that level if they want to attract and keep players.
That's where the next two seasons are so important for us. We have to be a finals side that is still moving upward.

yeah, but weren’t you surprised that he didn’t say players themselves are part of the equation that makes the environment? Or that contracts ought to mean something? To be honest, i know it is just way more nuanced than we ever thought. Contracts still mean something, but they are always negotiable. When clubs offer a contract, they are essentially handing that player a weapon - that can be used against them. Taxis for hire.

 

[Moquo]

This year they're letting poodle crossbreeds into the Royal Melb Show. The pure breeders are losing their minds and I love to see it.

Laurie Luxmoore would turn in his grave

 

[beside the seaside]

Mitchell is at the Pies?

Yep sorry might have been confusing in the post but playing VFL for the Pies this year.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Glad the club put the work in to keep Windhager. That loss would have really hurt the club.

I still can't understand the people on here that were happy to let him go. The kid will be a gun and a leader.

I can tell you emphatically, no-one would of been happy to see him go.
But people are allowed to suggest that he was being paid overs for where he is at.
I'm seriously over people here, band wagoning on untrue BS.

 

[phantom13]

yeah, but weren’t you surprised that he didn’t say players themselves are part of the equation that makes the environment? Or that contracts ought to mean something? To be honest, i know it is just way more nuanced than we ever thought. Contracts still mean something, but they are always negotiable. When clubs offer a contract, they are essentially handing that player a weapon - that can be used against them. Taxis for hire.

As it currently stands weve seen most managers and players seem to think they can wipe their ass with contracts.

In reality we have very very few genuine test casesfor guys trying to force their way out.

I think GT is right, players want flags and success, it clearly means more to them than being a one club player (and in some cases cash as well). Brissy, Hawks and Geelong still being linked to the biggest free agents and trade targets prove that.

The current situation "feels" a bit unprecented but really no one has actually done much of anything, Merett is the only seemingly sure thing to get out and frankly, i hope Essendon takes everything from the Hawks for it.

 

[St Neil]

You should post this on the main board (if you haven't already). It pretty much sums the whole situation up perfectly.

I’d probably get banned mate. Doesn’t fit the narrative on that thread.

It is the truth though. And the reality. Bulldogs have the assets to get it done.

The only thing stopping them is themselves. They just don’t want to pay the price to get it done. In other words, they don’t want it badly enough.

Maybe that should be the focus for their supporters.

 

[nikkig98]

Wtf is going on on the main board - there are people talking like Wilkie to the dogs is a foregone conclusion

Like Nasiah was gone to Adelaide
Like Windhager was "not valued by Ross" and also gone (heaven and earth required apparently)
Like JSOS was gone to Dogs or Pies
Like we couldn't afford to pay Nas and TDK at the same time


Let the main board do as the main board does. When Cal stays, the narrative will then change right back to "Saints have ****ed their salary cap keeping everyone, its gonna blow up"

 

[holllywood]

If the rumours about Wilkie being disillusioned with our club culture are true, why would he choose to go to the Bulldogs?

Club culture was a key reason why Dunkley left, and there’s enough smoke to suggest it also played a part in Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

’s decision to leave.

 

[phantom13]

I can tell you emphatically, no-one would of been happy to see him go.
But people are allowed to suggest that he was being paid overs for where he is at.
I'm seriously over people here, band wagoning on untrue BS.

Then by your own admission people would have been happy to see him go if another club was gonna pay him MORE than we thought he was worth.

Its a semantics discussion, i dont think anyone actively wanted him out (like Gresh or Byrnes) but plenty were happy for him to walk at a dollar figure trigger.

 

[phantom13]

If the rumours about Wilkie being disillusioned with our club culture are true, why would he choose to go to the Bulldogs?

Club culture was a key reason why Dunkley left, and there’s enough smoke to suggest it also played a part in Bailey Smith’s decision to leave.

Technically they still have Jamarra on their list too, lets hope Cal is adept with the martial art techniques to disarm people holding firearms (or can learn of Rory pretty quick)

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Then by your own admission people would have been happy to see him go if another club was gonna pay him MORE than we thought he was worth.

Its a semantics discussion, i dont think anyone actively wanted him out (like Gresh or Byrnes) but plenty were happy for him to walk at a dollar figure trigger.

I dont think they would be happy to see him walk for coin
More the point
That's on him & Gresh.
On Gresh, people would be happy now.
Left to play more on the MCG, he stated.
What's the point if your losing there most times.
That's on him.

 

[phantom13]

I dont think they would be happy to see him walk for coin
More the point
That's on him & Gresh.
On Gresh, people would be happy now.
Left to play more on the MCG, he stated.
What's the point if your losing there most times.
That's on him.

Im pretty sure many if not most said theyd be happy for us to let him walk if he wants $800 or more a year but i also dont really care. Hes staying, its all pretty moot.

 

[hayes]

I think Phantom is right though. Geelong are the bench mark and rather than a couple of stars they have a dynamic spread of talent and types. Plenty of pace but without the absolute ball pig mids of sides like Carlton, Melbourne and the Dogs. They get you on the outside mostly and happy to sacrifice clearance to cause rebound turn overs

Yeah the game is about damage now and their ball movement game is off the charts. That’s why Carlton, Melbourne and even we struggle, too many no damage mids. I like our young guys though I just hope Ross plays them in there.

 

[phantom13]

I’d probably get banned mate. Doesn’t fit the narrative on that thread.

It is the truth though. And the reality. Bulldogs have the assets to get it done.

The only thing stopping them is themselves. They just don’t want to pay the price to get it done. In other words, they don’t want it badly enough.

Maybe that should be the focus for their supporters.

Id argue (and this supports you) the dogs can cover losing Richards and Freijah (for example) alot more easily than we could cover Wilkie. Bont, Libba, Treloar are all still a grade and Sanders is a former top 5 (i think) pick plus they have their own Garcia, Vandermeer and others to be the grunt.

They also clearly need a key defender so...

Balls in their court, if theyre willing to go north of $1.1m a year then SURELY theyd be willing to trade a kings ransom.

I cant see us agreeing to anything theyd be willing to let go of but they should be forcing our hand.