Traded Brandon Starcevich - traded to West Coast as part of a 3-way trade with Brisbane and Fremantle

[mpal6]

Nice from WC would be Hawks 2nd and not bidding on Annable

Well, if they want to trade for pick 33 (currently) then Lions best case scenario is

1. No bids on Annable at pick 1 or 2
2. Ensure they bid on both Uwland and Patterson at pick 2 so it'll burn through Gold Coast's draft hand of 6, 13, 17, 31
3. It will pull the pick 33 up by 4 spots to say 28/29 that's a +100 points in the new DVI
5. It will also pull Lions 3rd round picks 37, 40, 46, 49 by 4 spots and increased points for us

 

[Shueygod]

You’re measuring his value in the free agency market to another team and asserting that as his value to you, that’s not correct.

Our valuation of Oscar Allen, generating pick 2, doesn’t assert that Richmond would value him at their pick 2.
Nearly every team wouldn’t have valued Weller at pick 2, Rioli at pick 6. However, that was their trade value to Gold Coast not market value.
Similarly our valuing for Liam Ryan doesn’t lower the cost to StKilda.

All these type of scenarios are independent of each other, market value is subjective to the teams involved, any interruption outside of that is irrelevant really.

All possible scenarios.
Nothing saying we’re not directly weighing up Ridley vs Starcevich ? Without adequate compensation we simply couldn’t afford Ridley. So maybe if Starcevich was going else where, we would have signed him on.

Haha nice

I’m not asserting that as his value, or I’d be saying eagles should get him for free.

Im saying it plays a part in his value, if a team was willing to offer pick 5 that would drive the price up. If every other team results in no compensation for Brisbane it drives the price down. This is pretty simple economics, it’s not solely a case of “we think he’s worth this so we’ll pay it even though you wouldn’t get close to that elsewhere”.

 

[bzparkes]

Well, if they want to trade for pick 33 (currently) then Lions best case scenario is

1. No bids on Annable at pick 1 or 2
2. Ensure they bid on both Uwland and Patterson at pick 2 so it'll burn through Gold Coast's draft hand of 6, 13, 17, 31
3. It will pull the pick 33 up by 4 spots to say 28/29 that's a +100 points in the new DVI
5. It will also pull Lions 3rd round picks 37, 40, 46, 49 by 4 spots and increased points for us

That's fine, although I daresay we'll be attempting to get GC's pick for ourselves. Word on the street is we're trying to get 3 picks inside top 10.

 

[Shueygod]

Well, if they want to trade for pick 33 (currently) then Lions best case scenario is

1. No bids on Annable at pick 1 or 2
2. Ensure they bid on both Uwland and Patterson at pick 2 so it'll burn through Gold Coast's draft hand of 6, 13, 17, 31
3. It will pull the pick 33 up by 4 spots to say 28/29 that's a +100 points in the new DVI
5. It will also pull Lions 3rd round picks 37, 40, 46, 49 by 4 spots and increased points for us

I’d imagine a trade up with GC gets done, making the GC bids unlikely.

 

[Pns_blister]

I'd happily let him go to another club and Brisbane get nothing. He's not moving the needle for us.

Better yet, Brisbane match, we pull out and your salary cap blows up.

You realise Brisbane can match and force a trade with any club. So they won’t get nothing.

 

[Pns_blister]

That's fine, although I daresay we'll be attempting to get GC's pick for ourselves. Word on the street is we're trying to get 3 picks inside top 10.

Yeah, to give us one for Starce.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

I’m not asserting that as his value, or I’d be saying eagles should get him for free.

Im saying it plays a part in his value, if a team was willing to offer pick 5 that would drive the price up. If every other team results in no compensation for Brisbane it drives the price down. This is pretty simple economics, it’s not solely a case of “we think he’s worth this so we’ll pay it even though you wouldn’t get close to that elsewhere”.

Just because other teams can potentially get a discount from Free Agency, that doesn’t mean it drives his trade value down.

Free Agency can be a false economy, do you think Frawley was worth pick 2, McKay pick 3, Allen pick 2, Buddy pick 19 in any trade scenarios ?

It can throw up reasonably fair outcomes at times, ignoring the one convenient fact that West Coast fans are holding onto, your suggested offer would fall well within line for an end of first round compensation.

The other assumption you’re making to justify no trade value, is we can’t / won’t match a potential bid from another team. If we’re looking at Ridley, it’s likely we still have cap space to force a trade even after signing Allen and Draper.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Love the tough trade talk from West Coast supporters, this was the team that traded pick 3 down to pick 12 (ending up at pick 16) for Liam Baker

3

Liam Baker

Age

27

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

CL

0.5

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

CL

1.2

4star

last year.

No assistance pick, we would have ended up with their hawks R1

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Love the tough trade talk from West Coast supporters, this was the team that traded pick 3 down to pick 12 (ending up at pick 16) for Liam Baker last year.

No assistance pick, we would have ended up with their hawks R1

I can assure you there’s a lot of us who have absolutely zero expectations of Matt Clarke being able to trade tough.

We’ve been friendly or barely competent traders for as long as I can remember regardless of who we’re dealing with. We’re not about to have some new found edge with a group we’re fairly amicable with particular after they’re giving a deal to generate us pick 2 for Allen.

 

[Shueygod]

Just because other teams can potentially get a discount from Free Agency, that doesn’t mean it drives his trade value down.

Free Agency can be a false economy, do you think Frawley was worth pick 2, McKay pick 3, Allen pick 2, Buddy pick 19 in any trade scenarios ?

It can throw up reasonably fair outcomes at times, ignoring the one convenient fact that West Coast fans are holding onto, your suggested offer would fall well within line for an end of first round compensation.

The other assumption you’re making to justify no trade value, is we can’t / won’t match a potential bid from another team. If we’re looking at Ridley, it’s likely we still have cap space to force a trade even after signing Allen and Draper.

Brisbanes cap would be absolutely cooked if they were forced to match.

You truly believe Starcevich is worth a late 1st? If so what would he be worth without the concussion questions?

 

[Pns_blister]

Brisbanes cap would be absolutely cooked if they were forced to match.

You truly believe Starcevich is worth a late 1st? If so what would he be worth without the concussion questions?

You realise your club is paying him top 10 pick money? And offering 6 years?

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Brisbanes cap would be absolutely cooked if they were forced to match.

You truly believe Starcevich is worth a late 1st? If so what would he be worth without the concussion questions?

I see Starcevich and Ridley’s potential contract reasonably interchangeable, so I don’t think it would be cooked at all.

I do believe his value is that late first rounder / early second rounder.
Ratuguolea pick 25, Baker pick ~12 (overs) Beal Bullen pick 28 Caleb Daniel pick 25, all applicable examples but I’d have Starce higher.

If you’re offering a 4 year contract, now reported as potentially 6 years @900k. I think its fair to say you’ve set the market value and removed any concussion discount.

 

[Mop]

If you want us to play nice in trade, pick 19 is fair value. Or a future second - but if I was west coast I'd rather trade something in this draft which is not rated highly.

Pick 19 for a player you get nothing for if we take him as a free agency is an overpay. Open market? Yes. Fine.
I am also aware that we can't take him as a FA due to the Oscar Allen compensation

Am I confident we don't fold and offer it to you? No.
Am I offering it to you if I'm WC's list manager? No.

Mid late second. Not ours, acquired from a middle club.

 

[Shueygod]

Brisbanes cap would be absolutely cooked if they were forced to match.

You truly believe Starcevich is worth a late 1st? If so what would he be worth without the concussion questions?

Not really relevant though, eagles have excess cap space. They don’t have an excess of first rounders as such a thing doesn’t exist.

 

[Mop]

Love the tough trade talk from West Coast supporters, this was the team that traded pick 3 down to pick 12 (ending up at pick 16) for Liam Baker last year.

No assistance pick, we would have ended up with their hawks R1

No chance. This is fairyland talk.

You forget the nuance. Brisbane lose positioning here because if Starcevich goes anywhere else, Brisbane get nothing.

 

[Elixuh]

Brisbanes cap would be absolutely cooked if they were forced to match.

You truly believe Starcevich is worth a late 1st? If so what would he be worth without the concussion questions?

But we’re not forced to match because while the Eagles have been playing with a stick in the dirt we have been playing 4d chess and have backed WCE into a corner in the local hungry jacks chain with the Allen compo.

Check. Mate.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

No chance. This is fairyland talk.

You forget the nuance. Brisbane lose positioning here because if Starcevich goes anywhere else, Brisbane get nothing.

You know how to get the same discount ….. Oh yer, that’s where the nuance is lost on West Coast.

 

[mpal6]

No chance. This is fairyland talk.

You forget the nuance. Brisbane lose positioning here because if Starcevich goes anywhere else, Brisbane get nothing.

Agreed, he goes anywhere else - us bringing free agents will cancel it out.

But your club is at the front of the queue offering him 900k/6 years, or whatever the deal is. If he picks you, you're stuck with trading with us, whether or not we match. Now we're already paying Allen top dollar so you can get pick 2 in the process (so you won't match for Allen), why do we need to extend that favor further by offering up Starcevich for some token pick for you.

We could easily sit back, do nothing and let you dilute your pick 2 compo. this is by taking Starce via RFA.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

I can assure you there’s a lot of us who have absolutely zero expectations of Matt Clarke being able to trade tough.

We’ve been friendly or barely competent traders for as long as I can remember regardless of who we’re dealing with. We’re not about to have some new found edge with a group we’re fairly amicable with particular after they’re giving a deal to generate us pick 2 for Allen.

We as supporters went through similar feelings, wanting the club to get a harder edge.
A few examples that spring to mind, We traded for Cameron with pick 12, when we had pick 19 and everyone thought that was fairer.
We traded Schache (two years after being pick 2) for basically an 5 pick upgarde pick 20 - 15 Zac Bailey.

I think it’s better to fall this side of ledger than being too hard. Player and their agents have too much power and push them toward clubs that get deals done and don’t squibble of “winning trades”.
On the flip side, who have Essendon got of note since the failed attempt at Dunkley, Carlton since Jack Martin.

Small loses now can lead to big wins later.

 

[Mop]

Agreed, he goes anywhere else - us bringing free agents will cancel it out.

But your club is at the front of the queue offering him 900k/6 years, or whatever the deal is. If he picks you, you're stuck with trading with us, whether or not we match. Now we're already paying Allen top dollar so you can get pick 2 in the process (so you won't match for Allen), why do we need to extend that favor further by offering up Starcevich for some token pick for you.

We could easily sit back, do nothing and let you dilute your pick 2 compo. this is by taking Starce via RFA.

I know old mate Briztoon will come in here swinging, but I strongly suspect some off the book discussion about not bidding on Dan Annable will come into consideration. It is a non tangible price, but one we can cause you pain on.

Don't get me wrong, I quite like Brisbane, my best mate is a Brisbane fanatic so I watch all of your games. I also want us to make you hurt on the trade table to make up for the shitshow that the Liam Baker trade was last year. I want our list manager to show some goddamn spine. Nothing against Brisbane here. In fact the opposite. You're a good club.

If a compromise was our natural 2nd round this year I'd accept it begrudgingly.
We don't even know for sure this supposed EO1st round is even happening yet.

So. Our natural second round. Yay or nay?

 

[beatnik]

I know old mate Briztoon will come in here swinging, but I strongly suspect some off the book discussion about not bidding on Dan Annable will come into consideration. It is a non tangible price, but one we can cause you pain on.

Don't get me wrong, I quite like Brisbane, my best mate is a Brisbane fanatic so I watch all of your games. I also want us to make you hurt on the trade table to make up for the shitshow that the Liam Baker trade was last year. I want our list manager to show some goddamn spine. Nothing against Brisbane here. In fact the opposite. You're a good club.

If a compromise was our natural 2nd round this year I'd accept it begrudgingly.
We don't even know for sure this supposed EO1st round is even happening yet.

So. Our natural second round. Yay or nay?

It’s got nothing to do with spine or ‘winning’ a trade…that’s not how it works in the modern game…successful trading now is about finding win-wins ie you might give a little on one but you make it up on another with the goodwill you’ve built

Brisbane will be trying to find a fair deal or at least a deal both clubs can live with and I suspect WC will do the same

It’s only some fans who view it through the machismo Bell/Dodoro lens

Relax, you’ll get pick 2 and Starce and won’t get bent over…just chill and look forward to having one of the best lockdown defenders in the game

 

[amazingjoshy]

It’s got nothing to do with spine or ‘winning’ a trade…that’s not how it works in the modern game…successful trading now is about finding win-wins ie you might give a little on one but you make it up on another with the goodwill you’ve built

Brisbane will be trying to find a fair deal or at least a deal both clubs can live with and I suspect WC will do the same

It’s only some fans who view it through the machismo Bell/Dodoro lens

Relax, you’ll get pick 2 and Starce and won’t get bent over…just chill and look forward to having one of the best lockdown defenders in the game

This

 

[Mop]

It’s got nothing to do with spine or ‘winning’ a trade…that’s not how it works in the modern game…successful trading now is about finding win-wins ie you might give a little on one but you make it up on another with the goodwill you’ve built

Brisbane will be trying to find a fair deal or at least a deal both clubs can live with and I suspect WC will do the same

It’s only some fans who view it through the machismo Bell/Dodoro lens

Relax, you’ll get pick 2 and Starce and won’t get bent over…just chill and look forward to having one of the best lockdown defenders in the game

That's how the natural second round pick comes into it.

Below market value but not us flexing our hand either. Us flexing would be a late second, not the earliest natural.

 

[leighmo]

It’s got nothing to do with spine or ‘winning’ a trade…that’s not how it works in the modern game…successful trading now is about finding win-wins ie you might give a little on one but you make it up on another with the goodwill you’ve built

Brisbane will be trying to find a fair deal or at least a deal both clubs can live with and I suspect WC will do the same

It’s only some fans who view it through the machismo Bell/Dodoro lens

Relax, you’ll get pick 2 and Starce and won’t get bent over…just chill and look forward to having one of the best lockdown defenders in the game

That’s the point I’m trying to make, I don’t see pick 19 for Starcevich in isolation as a win for WC. I would guess a package of later picks totalling points equal to a late first rounder would be better for WC, and still be a win for Brisbane.

The comments on here are rather that WC should hand over pick 19 or either lose pick 2 or forget about Starcevich. That’s hardly win-win.

 

[Shueygod]

Don’t know about a first rounder when you can buy a stepladder at Bunnings for $35.