List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
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[sainterryan]

If we got 31 back from them that is probably about right I reckon.

Pick 7 will end up pick 11-12, it's not that exciting IMO.

There is a pretty exciting pick 11 running round for us at the moment

 

[OxSaint]

You both seem to think im suggesting he and Macrae are worth the same thing.

Im not, im pointing out that Flanders MIGHT be worth a top 10 pick if hed played in the guts all year and repeated his form of 2 years ago, he didnt, hence his value is diminished, just as Macraes was.

Macrae was pick 45 as a 3 x All Australian former number 6 pick premiership player at 30.

Somehow Sam Flanders a 24 year old absolutely ****ing nothing former pick 11 is just absolutely worth a top 10 pick even though he suffered from the same issue of being shoved out of his preferred spot for better players.

Again, cant say i see the logic.

McRae was also on a million dollar back ended contract in his twilight years of his career. They are not comparable.

 

[saintbill]

There is a pretty exciting pick 11 running round for us at the moment

I am no draft expert, but this draft feels pretty meh. Nothing like last year. We have got plenty of kids that look promising already.

Would rather bolster the 24-27 age bracket now and have a crack at finals the next 2 years whilst Sinclair and Wilkie are still good.

It's go time now. Don't particularly care if we trade our first in this years draft.

 

[Falchoon]

Rowan Marshall is consistently ranked among the AFL's top rucks, often featuring in the top 10 or top 5, though specific rankings can vary by season and analyst. He is considered an all-round ruck, known for his strong aerial skills and, unusually for a big man, his exceptional ground-level play and mobility, which allow him to operate effectively as an additional midfielder.

Key characteristics that place him among the best:

• All-Round Game:
  Unlike more specialized aerial rucks, Marshall excels both in the air and at ground level, often described as an extra midfielder due to his endurance and ball-winning ability.
  
  
• Elite Mobility:
  His mobility and running ability for a big man are considered elite, contributing significantly to his impact at stoppages and in open play.
  
  
• Strong Performances:
  He has had multiple seasons where he dominated the league, earning him recognition in coaches' votes and club awards.
  
  
• Leadership:
  Marshall was inducted into St Kilda's leadership group in 2024, further highlighting his influence on the field.

Examples of his status:

• In 2023, he was considered one of the best all-round rucks in the league, alongside Tim English, with analysts highlighting his combination of aerial and ground-level skills.
  
  
• A 2024 ranking on SEN placed him at number 6 among the top 10 rucks in the AFL.

Time to pull out the Falchoon patented ruck rankings again.

Method - ruck stats for ruckmen, Centre clearances smoothed to a CB% of 80, hit outs win and hit outs advantage converted to points.



Ro is ranked high in the marking categories....

 

[Rogue Warrior]

If we got 31 back from them that is probably about right I reckon.

Pick 7 will end up pick 11-12, it's not that exciting IMO.

I irony is the reason is it’s getting pushed out is because they’ll be taking 2 picks in the top 6

 

[beside the seaside]

Time to pull out the Falchoon patented ruck rankings again.

Method - ruck stats for ruckmen, Centre clearances smoothed to a CB% of 80, hit outs win and hit outs advantage converted to points.

View attachment 2437456

Ro is ranked high in the marking categories....

Nice work, thanks for sharing!

 

[Falchoon]

Nice work, thanks for sharing!

No worries

Meanwhile in the GF Darcy Fort is up against "Rhys Stanley"

 

[Falchoon]

Pretty sure I saw a strange stat on Brownlow night, last year Roma was the top 'non midfield' vote getter last year. He's got his deficiencies in the centre circle, but he's still a very good footballer.

Please give him 1 year as a permanent forward!

 

[CursingFijian]

If we miss out on Flanders, SoS needs to be sacked, as usual.

If we win a premiership in the next 5 years we should build a statue of SOS getting sacked.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I am no draft expert, but this draft feels pretty meh. Nothing like last year. We have got plenty of kids that look promising already.

Would rather bolster the 24-27 age bracket now and have a crack at finals the next 2 years whilst Sinclair and Wilkie are still good.

It's go time now. Don't particularly care if we trade our first in this years draft.

Haven’t we drafted the most kids in the past 4 years?
Don’t think missing one year, particularly this one, is such a tragedy.
We’ll probably get Fincher anyway, according to people on here.
As you say, bolster the mid - 20s bracket where we are sorely lacking.
Can always go back to the draft next year.

 

[SainterinSydney]

If we win a premiership in the next 5 years we should build a statue of SOS getting sacked.

Where the degenerates in this thread can gather annually for the RSEA park circle jerk.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Where the degenerates in this thread can gather annually for the RSEA park circle jerk.

Thats a pretty big circle ... likely to spill out onto Linton St .... maybe as far as South Rd

 

[bird_man]

Yeh, I’m not arguing they should cost the same thing but Flanders peak value MIGHT be 7 if he wasn’t playing out of position. Just as Macraes peak value is likely closer to first round if he played in the middle all year.

Flanders is clearly more adaptable but he’s also clearly a level below GCs current mids, just as Macrae was seen to be.

How you can argue that Macrae being forced out of his preferred position and at times in the vfl impacted his value but Flanders being forced out of his preferred position doesn’t, makes absolutely no sense.

Except MaCrae was a 30 year old on a big contract that wasn't in their plans. The Dogs wanted to get him off the books.

For the record, I think that 7 for Flanders is overs, but it's poor comparison.

I think we'd want a decent pick back if we were to give up 7. Maybe working the Marshall trade in and ending up with pick Gold Coasts 13 with other picks changing hands.

Plenty of water to go under the bridge, I doubt it would just be 7 for Flanders and 18 for Marshall.

 

[saintmike65]

Don’t agree at all on Essendon or North, they need guys for 10 years not 10 months and even if he’s a stop gap he’s not worth the risk culturally.

Port maybe, **** knows where they are at

Collingwood a great fit...

Surely our greatest list need is a gun small defender who can lock away the opposition's most dangerous small fwd. Stocker ain't it.

Fincher a chance to fill that role

More importantly, if Moose is off to the Dees, what am I going to do with the ten thousand of these I ordered in red, white and black after we played the Swans?

View attachment 2431342

Swap them for Viking hats

 

[saintmike65]

Both those sides have less than stacked midfields. Adelaide too. Smith is an outside runner who can win clearance as well. Danger is just an absolute wrecking ball and then a lot of role players who can all be guns on their day.

Hawks have one absolute gun in Newcombe who again can run all day and win clearance then their next best was 2 meter tall Nash. Hawks again ave a spread of talent like Day and Weddle who can play elite footy at times.

We need one elite mid that can run and if that's Nas we have it. Garcia looks like a combo of run and contested clearance work so fit that modern prototype.

Windhager looks like his brand would fit well in finals. He can play close in chaos footy and work under pressure and pace.

These days getting it out into space is the key and guys who can run and spread is everything now. Good kicking and contested skills stand up in finals and home and away too. Being a quick thinker is even more important in finals.

We probably need another ready made mid regardless for rotations but he doesn't need to be elite, just good enough. Maybe Dow finally comes good.

Flanders..

 

[TheJackal]

Please give him 1 year as a permanent forward!

Ill see what I can do but I can't promise anything.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Pretty keen on Sam Flanders so I can go to games and yell " FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN-DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSS!" from over the fence. Dunno if he's any good though.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Hopefully Neddy will be ready for day one of pre-season

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm reading some pretty stupid hypotheticals here involving not having a draft pick for miniPou.

 

[Minga]

I am no draft expert, but this draft feels pretty meh. Nothing like last year. We have got plenty of kids that look promising already.

Would rather bolster the 24-27 age bracket now and have a crack at finals the next 2 years whilst Sinclair and Wilkie are still good.

It's go time now. Don't particularly care if we trade our first in this years draft.

Totally agree.

How many truly dud drafts are there though?

Last I can remember is the Covid draft which was obviously interrupted.

Pick 1 - JUH (lol)

Thilthrope (2), Holmes (20), Gulden (32) stand out as players who have excelled.

I guess Shannon Neale (33) by way of Geelong development too,

The rest is very dire, though I’m sure some clubs would go to bat for their respective players. Many seem lost in the dark, still time to go but 5th season coming up. Essendon huge losers with 3 picks in the top 10.

Our picks are long gone (Allison, Highmore).

I’d be surprised is this upcoming draft comes anywhere near as bad as that 2020 one - most of the alarm bells really seem to come from the fact that a lot of top end talent are roped off from 17 other clubs.

Alas, I want Fincher & I want another kid as early as possible if possible. If we on trade for Flanders so be it, that’s an adjacent if not better move - we are at the point in our list build now where we can start being more creative with our picks rather than praying we get messiah type players.

 

[TheJackal]

I'm reading some pretty stupid hypotheticals here involving not having a draft pick for miniPou.

I am not convinced that we'll have a pick in the teens come draft night.

Strangely enough, there are a bunch of kids available in the teens that I don't mind the look of now its closer to the draft.

Mind you, I'd consider this year's 10-20 to be equal to that of 30-40 last year.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

So we just pick up any mid who hasn't been near the midfield for a season for pick 7?
Dangerfield is thirty five and just got Geelong into a GF. Macrae was second to NAZ in the Brownlow.
The age excuse is just bullshit.
Yeah he is contracted, but so is Marshall who some want to ship off for a shit mid twenties pick.
GC see Flanders as a list clogger and want him off their books, we are happy to keep Marshall.
You people are cooked if you want to pay pick 7 for a player seen by their club as a list clogger.
Would be so St.Kilda to trade 7 for him and trade Marshall for 25
If we do that we are not a serious club.

Last season, Flanders turned 23 in July. He was second in the comp for disposals that year, splitting time between midfield and half back.

He had a down year this year, reportedly carrying a back injury and being played at half forward since Rowell, Anderson and Miller were all firing in the midfield. We don't have any players who would have been a starting mid ahead of those three. Do you really think that GC see a player who was second in the comp for disposals at 22/23 years old as a list clogger? We're not talking about some cooked mid on the wrong side of 30 with no pace here. I'd do pick 7 (actually 12ish) and a third rounder for Flanders and a second.

I'd also prefer to keep Marshall unless Geelong pony up a serious trade haul, because I think the odds of both TDK and King both being fit and firing at the same time is quite low. Marshall is as good a ruck as TDK (who misses games every year) and is our best option to sit in the goal square and bring the ball to ground if King is injured (which is usually the case). If we trade Marshall, now we need to go searching for a replacement.

 

[sammm]

We‘ve been looking for a first ruck ever since Ryder left. First it was Draper, then Xerri, then Soldo. Obviously we know Marshall’s deficiency, just never landed a ruckman we targeted which is a pity.

Or we wouldn't pay the price. Draper and Xerri

 

[jwikked]

Or we wouldn't pay the price. Draper and Xerri

In hindsight, the Xerri miss was huge. Can't remember what we wanted to spend on Draper, aside from an inflated contract.

Wasn't Xerri a 3rd round vs 2nd Round disagreement?

 

[jwint43]

Let's also not forget Scarlett - very cheap father son. And the high risk number 7 draft pick in Joel Selwood, who was seen as a potential number 1 pick but high risk due to a knee injury. Geelong were able to take the risk because in that same year they also got a great FS free hit with Tom Hawkins at pick ------41 !! And they spent years getting clubs to hide players in the Western District ahead of the draft as well............

I'm not against the idea of the F/S rule in principle as I do love the romanticism of it, but it's helped fasttrack many rebuilds simply by good fortune and timing. A proper price needs to be paid if a quality team is going to get a F/S that would be top 10 in a normal draft. The Lions winning a flag and adding Ashcroft x 2 is silly.