Official West Indies Thread

[PhatBoy]

I will give Kudos to the West Indies cricket administration board. Not many full member nations are willing to give contests with associate countries. But what is clear from this series, if you come unprepared, with an inexperienced lineup - you will get found out.

Absolutely and it happens to us more than anyone. We’ve embarrassed ourselves against Ireland before they were as good as they are now, the Dutch, Afghanistan if I remember rightly. You name it, we’ve managed it.

But we aren’t the first and won’t be the last.

Border, Lillee, Thompson, Marsh, Hughes, Yallop, Hogg, Lawson, Hookes, Wessels and Wood lost to a Zimbabwe World Cup team 10 years away from Test status in 1983 that featured no one with even a first class batting average in the 40s and only 3 players with one above 30. And that’s not a second or third string Aussie team.

It happens. Unfortunately for us it happens more than it should and if we are going to keep playing these sides we need to a) take it seriously and b) actually play well when we do it

 

[ExchangeStatMan]

Absolutely and it happens to us more than anyone. We’ve embarrassed ourselves against Ireland before they were as good as they are now, the Dutch, Afghanistan if I remember rightly. You name it, we’ve managed it.

But we aren’t the first and won’t be the last.

Border, Lillee, Thompson, Marsh, Hughes, Yallop, Hogg, Lawson, Hookes, Wessels and Wood lost to a Zimbabwe World Cup team 10 years away from Test status in 1983 that featured no one with even a first class batting average in the 40s and only 3 players with one above 30. And that’s not a second or third string Aussie team.

It happens. Unfortunately for us it happens more than it should and if we are going to keep playing these sides we need to a) take it seriously and b) actually play well when we do it

And you know having watched a fair bit of CPL in the past, the league isn't as good as we probably make it out to be. These players were virtually coming off 2 months of cricket vs Australia and the CPL. So lack of preparation , Im not really buying into that.

 

[PhatBoy]

And you know having watched a fair bit of CPL in the past, the league isn't as good as we probably make it out to be. These players were virtually coming off 2 months of cricket vs Australia and the CPL. So lack of preparation , Im not really buying into that.

Most of them yeah.
A few of them didn’t play much but the majority were involved for most of the CPL. If you look at some of their output in it you’d class it as limited though

 

[Jack Mundy]

Maybe. I think you’d be surprised how quickly the depth falls away for most teams beyond the major ones even if their first teams are good.

No. West Indian cricket is in far worse state than most test nations.

 

[Jack Mundy]

Absolutely and it happens to us more than anyone. We’ve embarrassed ourselves against Ireland before they were as good as they are now, the Dutch, Afghanistan if I remember rightly. You name it, we’ve managed it.

But we aren’t the first and won’t be the last.

Border, Lillee, Thompson, Marsh, Hughes, Yallop, Hogg, Lawson, Hookes, Wessels and Wood lost to a Zimbabwe World Cup team 10 years away from Test status in 1983 that featured no one with even a first class batting average in the 40s and only 3 players with one above 30. And that’s not a second or third string Aussie team.

It happens. Unfortunately for us it happens more than it should and if we are going to keep playing these sides we need to a) take it seriously and b) actually play well when we do it

..then Aussies beat them when they played again. West Indies got beat even worse.

 

[PhatBoy]

No. West Indian cricket is in far worse state than most test nations.

Is it? Huge if true

 

[ExchangeStatMan]

Is it? Huge if true

Listen to the Caribbean Cricket Podcast , do you think West Indies should look at tapping to the diaspora of players of West Indies blood applying their trades off short? Names like Phil Salt come to mind. Other nations are pinching other nations.


I think with the growing Trend of T20 expanding worldwide. Now might be the time to break the West Indies into their own islands. One thing that would be guaranteed, is the players would put their blood, heart and soul into repping their countries. eg Jamaicas, Trindad Tobago, Guyana, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, Antigua and Barbuda etc etc

 

[sabso]

Listen to the Caribbean Cricket Podcast , do you think West Indies should look at tapping to the diaspora of players of West Indies blood applying their trades off short? Names like Phil Salt come to mind. Other nations are pinching other nations.


I think with the growing Trend of T20 expanding worldwide. Now might be the time to break the West Indies into their own islands. One thing that would be guaranteed, is the players would put their blood, heart and soul into repping their countries. eg Jamaicas, Trindad Tobago, Guyana, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, Antigua and Barbuda etc etc

England have stolen archer and bethell, those guys would give WI a huge boost

 

[ExchangeStatMan]

England have stolen archer and bethell, those guys would give WI a huge boost

Emilio Gay is being talked up as well. He has been included in England A tour of Australia this summer.

 

[PhatBoy]

Listen to the Caribbean Cricket Podcast , do you think West Indies should look at tapping to the diaspora of players of West Indies blood applying their trades off short? Names like Phil Salt come to mind. Other nations are pinching other nations.


I think with the growing Trend of T20 expanding worldwide. Now might be the time to break the West Indies into their own islands. One thing that would be guaranteed, is the players would put their blood, heart and soul into repping their countries. eg Jamaicas, Trindad Tobago, Guyana, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, Antigua and Barbuda etc etc

Re. The stand alone option:


I can’t see any of the islands being competitive on their own. There was a time very briefly where Barbados would have been in the best 2-3 teams in the world, and possibly Jamaica but even at the West Indies’ peak it wasn’t the other individual countries who were strong it was the domestic teams that were strong: ie. Antigua and Barbuda had some great players in Viv and Richie and Curtley but they made up part of the Leeward Islands domestic team. Likewise the Windward Islands.

So realistically you’ve got 4 major nations - Jamaica, who have been very weak lately, Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago, and Guyana, then a whole stack of very small ones that make up the two other domestic ‘countries’: the Windward Islands, and the Leeward Islands. The other two domestic sides are the Combined Colleges and Campuses and the Academy side.

This would immediately mean that countries like St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, Dominica, Grenada, St Vincent, Antigua and Barbuda, Anguilla, Montserrat etc all have nothing to fall back on and their players have to defect or find a connection to one of the main islands/Guyana.

It’s one thing to play with passion. Quite another to front up and do it when you get paid even less than you already do now. It would be years before the ICC would entertain the thought of granting these countries stand alone status as well.


Re. Chasing players from the Caribbean ‘diaspora’?
It has some merit: it worked ok with Brendan Nash, he had a reasonable career for a period of time. The problem once again is money. Especially now that T20 is such an easy out. If you’re a peripheral kid in England or anywhere else for that matter with ties to the West Indies, and you can make money playing in the 100 and a few other leagues and even as a County player, what can a home in the Islands offer you aside from the laidback lifestyle? You won’t get paid as much, that’s a given.

This result with Nepal - I’m embarrassed by it make no mistake but ultimately I don’t really ‘care’ as such because it’s T20 cricket and it’s a hastily thrown together team with probably 2-3 guys that would be in a normal side, it’s away from home, it’s at the end of a home domestic season and the players they’ve picked were largely not even in form. I’m glad they weren’t tempted to try and rush the better players from a pointless T20 series across to India and they’ve actually had the test players in India preparing albeit without the right sized time gap between the CPL and the tests. And we now have both Josephs injured, assuming Shamar’s isn’t just cover for a legal affair. And we will, predictably, have our arse handed to us by the hosts.

All I want to see is progress and some pride with the bat. I want to see a selection policy that makes some sense because so far since Sammy took over, there hasn’t been. We’ve ditched Brathwaite which was understandable but he was one player who could maybe make a difference in India so they have to stick by that now and not go back unless he makes a stack of runs. They have to back young players if they pick them, and not discard them. And they have to reward players who earn a spot in domestic cricket, which IS actually starting to happen. There are players there if they look hard enough. Sprinkle in the odd speculative pick. They’ve already made a horrible stuff up by sending Jewel Andrew to play in this Nepal series instead of India. If you’re going to send your most talented young player somewhere to learn, send him to India.

 

[Gethelred]

Why no series thread, PhatBoy?

 

[PhatBoy]

Why no series thread, PhatBoy?

Why bother when it will just be people complaining about the 3-0 cakewalk we are going to inflict.

The series is only 3 overs old and we are already nearly halfway to our most recent innings total.

Edit: aaaand we are 1-down

 

[Gethelred]

Why bother when it will just be people complaining about the 3-0 cakewalk we are going to inflict.

The series is only 3 overs old and we are already nearly halfway to our most recent innings total.

I logged on just after I saw it had started, thinking how good it was for some test cricket after a barren few months.

Don't let the dickheads stop you from enjoying supporting your team.

You watching, though?

 

[PhatBoy]

I logged on just after I saw it had started, thinking how good it was for some test cricket after a barren few months.

Don't let the dickheads stop you from enjoying supporting your team.

You watching, though?

Not at the moment mate I’m working from the office so just following from the cricinfo commentary.

Just want us to compete and see Athanaze, Anderson, Blades, Phillip take some steps, see Seales do some damage overseas etc. that’s all. I’m not going to be deflated if/when we lose. We won’t be the first team to get beaten by India in India.

 

[ioppolo]

Why bother when it will just be people complaining about the 3-0 cakewalk we are going to inflict.

The series is only 3 overs old and we are already nearly halfway to our most recent innings total.

Edit: aaaand we are 1-down

Not sure on this bowling lineup. A 34 year old debutant? Lot's of heavy lifting for Seales up front and Warrican later on. Motie out of favour?

 

[PhatBoy]

Not sure on this bowling lineup. A 34 year old debutant? Lot's of heavy lifting for Seales up front and Warrican later on. Motie out of favour?

I don’t mind it too much if it’s within limits.

I’ve gone on record a lot as saying I’d like us to be pretty clear in either just trying to compete, or going ‘ok we are going to pick a young team, give them time, and stick with them and let them fail which they will do, but back them to get better.’

But I also don’t want us to just pick players in those positions just for the sake of it. Pick young players you are prepared to let fail if you ultimately think they are good enough, but not if they aren’t. I don’t think we have many good young spinners, most of them are late 20s or older, so for a trip to India I’m ok with it. We might get a few years out of him. He’s done ok domestically (mind you he’s not the first)

 

[Gethelred]

Not at the moment mate I’m working from the office so just following from the cricinfo commentary.

Just want us to compete and see Athanaze, Anderson, Blades, Phillip take some steps, see Seales do some damage overseas etc. that’s all. I’m not going to be deflated if/when we lose. We won’t be the first team to get beaten by India in India.

Chanderpaul was a tad unlucky, but it's a consequence of him both wanting to leave and trying to play at the same time. Were I in any position of power, I'd investigate to see where Alistar Cook is coaching within the county setup and get him into it by hell or high water, because he needs methods to score when just blunting an attack.

 

[Jack Mundy]

Chanderpaul was a tad unlucky, but it's a consequence of him both wanting to leave and trying to play at the same time. Were I in any position of power, I'd investigate to see where Alistar Cook is coaching within the county setup and get him into it by hell or high water, because he needs methods to score when just blunting an attack.

Is cook a good coach?!

 

[Jack Mundy]

Why bother when it will just be people complaining about the 3-0 cakewalk we are going to inflict.

The series is only 3 overs old and we are already nearly halfway to our most recent innings total.

Edit: aaaand we are 1-down

West indies keep getting series against the top nations, while improving teams like Nepal have no path. System is broken.

 

[PhatBoy]

Is cook a good coach?!

Probably good enough to tell these guys what to leave and what not to.

 

[PhatBoy]

West indies keep getting series against the top nations, while improving teams like Nepal have no path. System is broken.

Hope you’re ok.

We don’t keep getting series against the top nations. Australia hadn’t toured WI for a decade before this year. Prior to the strange back to back series two summers ago WI hadn’t toured here for nearly a decade either.

We’ve played 6 years against India in 9 years.

Yeah it’s just relentless.

We hardly play SA. The one top team we DO play regularly is England. And they’ve won one series in the West Indies in 50 years or something. We keep beating them.

 

[Gethelred]

Is cook a good coach?!

Dunno, just he'd be the archetype I'd be seeking to match: an opening bat with a predilection for leaving the ball and scoring only when it's safe to do so. He's also a leftie, which would help.

I do take your meaning, though.

 

[Gethelred]

Probably good enough to tell these guys what to leave and what not to.

For such an attractive front foot player, that was such a horrendous leave.

 

[Gough]

West indies keep getting series against the top nations, while improving teams like Nepal have no path. System is broken.

I think there's a massive gulf in what's required even between fifty and twenty over cricket and that becomes even harder to overcome when you're raised playing T20 cricket. Nepal have a goodish record in ODI against second tier countries but I still think they've still a fair way to go before they'd be competitive against the better teams.

 

[Jack Mundy]

Hope you’re ok.

We don’t keep getting series against the top nations. Australia hadn’t toured WI for a decade before this year. Prior to the strange back to back series two summers ago WI hadn’t toured here for nearly a decade either.

We’ve played 6 years against India in 9 years.

Yeah it’s just relentless.

We hardly play SA. The one top team we DO play regularly is England. And they’ve won one series in the West Indies in 50 years or something. We keep beating them.

Yeah, west indies are too strong. That's why nobody wants to play them. Wonder if they'd improve if place in test championship wasn't assured?!