List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[gringo2011]

Honestly saints fans love him because his name is phillipou. That's the truth, he's a good athlete but very little footy craft about him at this stage.

I loved what I saw from Fincher but he's not projected as a high pick at all in a weak draft. I don't think the club are banking on much from this draft, clearly

Fincher looks no worse than a lot of the projected FRDPs to me.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

It is a nice look at how the salary cap is structured but I don't think it is correct.

Firstly, I agree we spent 14.76 but supposedly we front-ended contracts to bring us up to 95% of the cap. That is front-ending 2.14. However, that was front-ending contracts that run 2026 and 2027 as that is when the bulk of players come off contract. Therefore the savings need to be spread over two years not applied to just one, which is 1.1 m saving a year.

Now, so far we have desisted 1.2 m approximately of salary a year. However, we have had to uplift a number of salaries including NAS. So I would suggest conservatively that is an uplift of 2.7 m to NAS, Windy, Wilkie, Hall and Pou. Add to that the 3.9m for TDK, Flanders, JSOS, and Ryan and all of a sudden our salary cap is stretched to its limits. If my figures are close we will be paying 104% of the salary cap for the next 2 years.

If we had recruited Aleer we would have had to cave to Geelong's offer to remain under the max cap.

I won’t pretend to offer feedback, but many thanks for efforts. It’s actually incredibly important, so I’m always surprised journalists have zero grasp of how it works, let alone dug into the details that you’ve assessed.

That flexibility is also important. You never know what crops up next year that we are instantly out of the running for without a good one being pushed out. Or even events like Wilkie just gone.

 

[NAS THE GOAT]

WTAF is Josh Jenkins

11

Josh Jenkins

Age

36

Ht

200cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.1

4star

HB

3.8

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.0

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.6

5star

doing on the SEN racing commentary team today. He is an idiot when commenting on AFL. God help anyone listening to him on horse racing

 

[Tommy Wigs]

TDK definitely doesn't look like he can play as a key. Carlton have tried it time and again and he always struggles. He played his best footy early in the year as the only ruck.

Unsurprisingly this year his form dropped right off as soon as they brought Pittonet back into the side.

Marshall can pinch hit forward but it was different with Ryder who was also a very good forward.

Theres definitely enough evidence to suggest TDK plays his best footy and a full-time ruck.

I just think it's a big risk trying to make it work if we can get good currency for Marshall and then fill some genuine needs with it.

Yep, they’re good points. I’m very intrigued to see how it would go, as much as anything to see what the more permanent support/protection does for Max. But one more year on, Ro one year older and - unless TDK is injured - Ro will have a quieter year purely through structure. It will quickly go from a 1st to a late 2nd or less.

 

[bergholt]

We currently have a high number of 18-20yo that will consume cap space with growing payments. By your estimates there's enough in the kitty to handle that but room for another big name probably isn't there without losing the likes of Steele and Marshall

If all the kids earn their payrises then we'll be going well on field and will be able to trade someone out and let go of older guys to free up space. On the other hand, if they don't earn them then we're probably not going well enough to keep Nas so we'll have heaps of room from his contract. I think it all works out with a minimum of fuss tbh.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Oh wow, I can't wait to see who we are after instead of Aleer....

"... Ivan soldo..."

Can’t wait for air room temp IQ operators like Purple and Jenkins turn that into “why would they destroy Aleer’s life just to get in Soldo. It doesn’t make sense. Does Soldo help them win a flag, now that clearly that’s the pass mark?”

 

[SainterinSydney]

First thing Port says, if we are nominated, is “Nasiah”.

 

[akaifu]

As Geezington mentioned earlier, Butler + goodwill points for 29 IF the SUNS can ensure they don’t need the pick for their NGAs

 

[SG34]

As someone wrote a few pages back (sorry can’t remember who) - if Carlton shut down Curnow to Geelong, the Marshall deal is reignited.

Another person also said that they couldn’t see world where Marshall is dropped into the seconds, so Hammer and Keeler would be likely stuck down there.

Whatever the reasons, I’d guess we are worse off with no Marshall. I don’t mind if Hammer is in the seconds. But I don’t think- actually we all know Marshall wants OUT. So- he is gone in spirit, if not in physical form. I remember when he played with Ryder - we were a better team, even as Ro’s stats fell significantly. He just doesn’t wanna be #2 man

 

[Saints4ever]

JSOS improves the backline
Ryan improves the Forwardline
Flanders improves the Midfield
De Koning improves the Ruck

Anybody who can’t see what we’re doing are kidding themselves.

We’ve had a great week.

Winning.

 

[Sainter62]

Butters for Marshall, Saints F1 in 2026 and F1 2027. Who says no?

PORT

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

You r out in the north right? I’ve been playing BHRDCA bets for the past few years…this year they could only scrape together 13 teams

DVCA… vets has 18 teams in 2 divs this season. Dunderheads have spilt it into 7 & 11!

 

[SainterinSydney]

If this year ends with us not only retaining Nas but also getting Butters, I think the Port fans may never forgive us.

 

[maanco]

It is a nice look at how the salary cap is structured but I don't think it is correct.

Firstly, I agree we spent 14.76 but supposedly we front-ended contracts to bring us up to 95% of the cap. That is front-ending 2.14. However, that was front-ending contracts that run 2026 and 2027 as that is when the bulk of players come off contract. Therefore the savings need to be spread over two years not applied to just one, which is 1.1 m saving a year.

Now, so far we have desisted 1.2 m approximately of salary a year. However, we have had to uplift a number of salaries including NAS. So I would suggest conservatively that is an uplift of 2.7 m to NAS, Windy, Wilkie, Hall and Pou. Add to that the 3.9m for TDK, Flanders, JSOS, and Ryan and all of a sudden our salary cap is stretched to its limits. If my figures are close we will be paying 104% of the salary cap for the next 2 years.

If we had recruited Aleer we would have had to cave to Geelong's offer to remain under the max cap.

You are correct there was a problem with my calculation syntax - there's only $2.14m Brought forward in 2025.

But there's no reason that the salary brought forward needs to be spilt evenly over multiple seasons it could just be spread over 1 season - but you are right that's unlikely.

Although, I can't see how we are paying 104% in both 2026 and 2027

Fixing my error and assuming if we pay $19.5M a year we will be paying 95% of our salary in 2026 and 105% in 2027.

 

[EddieMurphy]

Saints did a real shitty thing. It will be seen as Ryan over Aleer once the emotion is gone. Personally, I think it is a mistake and if Aleer goes on to fulfill his potential (I think he will) it will be another trade/draft choice that the rest of the AFL will enjoy rubbing our noses in.

Yeh Aleer would have been part of the push for Prelims if he was good enough. Ryan will help us for a couple of years maybe a final.

 

[stavro#4]

As Geezington mentioned earlier, Butler + goodwill points for 29 IF the SUNS can ensure they don’t need the pick for their NGAs

How does this work? They are apparently trading 7+8 for Petracca

Even if they get back 24,28, 42

That leaves them with 15,18,24,28,36,42

They would still be short if Uwland and Patterson go top 5 as expected

 

[Dr Spaceman]

WTAF is Josh Jenkins doing on the SEN racing commentary team today. He is an idiot when commenting on AFL. God help anyone listening to him on horse racing

To be fair, he does have a bit of a horse like head

 

[maanco]

Salary Cap Estimate

I've estimated the Saints’ salary cap position, based on based on reported contract values and AFL cap accounting assumptions.
It looks very healthy heading into 2026 and primed for a 2026 Free Agent.

2025: AFL salary cap was $17.78m. St Kilda reportedly spent only 83% (~$14.76m).

2025: Unused cap space carried forward – around $3.9m likely front-loaded into existing 2025 contracts.

2026: AFL salary cap $18.29m.

2026: Estimated raw player spend (based on reported contracts and estimates) – $19.64m.

2026: Adjusted cap spend (after front-loading using 2025 savings) – $15.73m, or 85.9% of the cap.

2026: Remaining capacity to front-load – approximately $1.65m in existing 2026 contracts.

2027 salary cap $18.44m.

2027: Estimated spend $17.99m – around 97.6% of the cap, a strong and sustainable position.

Summary:
This is a conservative estimate as it assumes our salary spend is $19.64M on average in both 2026 and 2027, but it suggests St Kilda are about $2.5–3 million under the 2026 AFL cap after front-loading adjustments. The club has strong flexibility, with the ability to spend 105% in both 2027 and 2028 and the ability to front-load further without breaching cap limits.

Further allowance for salary increases for up and coming players salary appears to be allowed for given some senior player contracts tapering off and retirements are likely.

It appears to be very well-managed, and will allow St Kilda to be competitive in free agency in 2026.

Go Saints.

Correction:
I have fixed a calculation error and we will actually spend 95% of the cap in 2026 and 105% of the cap in 2027 - if it is assumed we pay an average of $19.5M (conservative) over the two seasons.

Because of this it would be ideal to trade a few players this season i.e. steel and Marshall to allow for front loading.

It might also be why we have pulled out of the Aleer deal, so we have more flexibility in future seasons.

 

[akaifu]

How does this work? They are apparently trading 7+8 for Petracca

Even if they get back 24,28, 42

That leaves them with 15,18,24,28,36,42

They would still be short if Uwland and Patterson go top 5 as expected

No clue, just relaying what I’ve heard

worst case scenario they make up some of the points via pick swaps and go into deficit next yr for what would probs be a late teens pick when they finish top 8 only for it to be used up in another bid

 

[Tommy Wigs]

To be fair, he does a bit of a horse like head

Damo is the horse’s ass

 

[maanco]

Estimated average annual value of current contracts - Approx. $19.5M a season on average (i.e. figures do not account for front/back loading.)


Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 2000000
Tom De Koning

12

Tom De Koning

Age

26

Ht

201cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

2star

HO

1.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

1.5

5star

1650000
Jack Macrae 950000
Sam Flanders 900000
Callum Wilkie

44

Callum Wilkie

Age

29

Ht

191cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.2

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

221.3

3star

D

12.6

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.6

2star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.4

2star

MG

223.1

3star

D

14.0

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

5.6

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.2

4star

MG

170.0

3star

900000
Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

750000
Jack Sinclair

35

Jack Sinclair

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

235.0

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

MG

376.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

MG

138.2

3star

750000
Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

30

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

750000
Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

700000
Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

700000
Brad Hill 650000
Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

650000
Jack Higgins 500000
Marcus Windhager 500000
Mitchito Owens 500000
Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

400000
Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

400000
Mattaes Phillipou 400000
Cooper Sharman 350000
Dan Butler 350000
Dougal Howard

20

Dougal Howard

Age

29

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

176.2

3star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.7

4star

T

0.6

1star

MG

171.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.8

3star

350000
Jack Carroll 350000
Liam Henry 350000
Liam Stocker

14

Liam Stocker

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

350000
Max Hall 350000
Darcy Wilson 300000
Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

26

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

250000
Anthony Caminiti 200000
Hugo Garcia 180000
Isaac Keeler 180000
Liam O'Connell 180000
Angus Hastie 150000
Lance Collard 150000
Alix Tauru 150000
Tobie Travaglia 150000
Alex Dodson 125000
Hugh Boxshall 125000
James Barrat 125000
Patrick Said 125000
Eamonn Armstrong 125000
Draftee 1 120000
Draftee 2 120000
Draftee 3 120000
Draftee 4 120000


Feel free to edit with your estimates.

 

[Mat Mann]

que the same outrage that we got with Steele

 

[The_Steadier]

Fixing my error and assuming if we pay $19.5M a year we will be paying 95% of our salary in 2026 and 105% in 2027.

im pretty sure we have this year (2025) hit the max number of consecutive years (3?) you are allowed to pay 95%. (I think the club confirmed something like that when discussing tdk coming in)

If ive got that right- i believe we must pay at least 100% next year (but can pay up to 105% for the next 3 years if/when we want to).

So I don't believe there's any chance we are at 95% for 2026- i think its against the rules, plus all the new signings and re-siginings would make it highly unlikely too

 

[maanco]

As Geezington mentioned earlier, Butler + goodwill points for 29 IF the SUNS can ensure they don’t need the pick for their NGAs

Not sure if I've ever seen one of these "goodwill trades.

 

[Jayman15]

Jack Higgins H/S article 11/10 backing Saints aggressive recruitment approach

https://archive.vn/88pd0