Vic The joke that is the Victorian Liberal Party.

[Saint]

Do you think lying is confined to LNP? This current government has lied through its teeth and/or treated Victorians like mushrooms which is worse than being lied to. Why are we so accepting of this? At what point did we become so desensitised that being treated like a mushroom or lied to by the government no longer matters but the Opposition cannot be trusted?

Depends what they're lying about.

If the LNP tell me that the problem with housing is to increase negative gearing to spur more investment, I'm not going to believe them.

If they tell me they're committed to fixing the problem but offer no solution, I'm not going to believe them that they want to fix it in the first place. (otherwise why wouldn't they propose how to solve it?).

What have the ALP lied about which makes you question their motives?

 

[Sttew]

Depends what they're lying about.

If the LNP tell me that the problem with housing is to increase negative gearing to spur more investment, I'm not going to believe them.

If they tell me they're committed to fixing the problem but offer no solution, I'm not going to believe them that they want to fix it in the first place. (otherwise why wouldn't they propose how to solve it?).

What have the ALP lied about which makes you question their motives?

Here's a few that come to mind - 4000 new ICU beds; the introduction of new emergency services levy; the fact they won't or can't tell us how much SRL will cost yet we are expected to blindly accept it. None of those will surprise you, or will they?

 

[Saint]

Here's a few that come to mind - 4000 new ICU beds; the introduction of new emergency services levy; the fact they won't or can't tell us how much SRL will cost yet we are expected to blindly accept it. None of those will surprise you, or will they?

Did they lie about the levy?

Do I think they intended to open that many ICU beds and made a stupid early announcement which they never admitted to abandoning? Do I think they never had any intention of opening many more ICU beds. There are only 500-600 ICU beds in Victoria. Opening 4,000 was clearly nonsense, probably a mis-communication somewhere.

The problem for the LNP is that they've never tried to lower the cost of living, except by trickle-down economics and variations of it, so I don't expect them to have any idea how to do that. Since CoL is the biggest problem, throwing a bunch of spoiled rich kids at the problem is hardly likely to provide the solution.

Lowering taxes and balancing the budget seem to be their two election pillars. The two don't balance.

 

[The Punter]

Did they lie about the levy?

Do I think they intended to open that many ICU beds and made a stupid early announcement which they never admitted to abandoning? Do I think they never had any intention of opening many more ICU beds. There are only 500-600 ICU beds in Victoria. Opening 4,000 was clearly nonsense, probably a mis-communication somewhere.

The problem for the LNP is that they've never tried to lower the cost of living, except by trickle-down economics and variations of it, so I don't expect them to have any idea how to do that. Since CoL is the biggest problem, throwing a bunch of spoiled rich kids at the problem is hardly likely to provide the solution.

Lowering taxes and balancing the budget seem to be their two election pillars. The two don't balance.

For whatever reason, you consider these mistakes by Labor but deliberate lies by their opponents. That speaks to motivation, and once one becomes convinced that one group is motivated by good intentions (but nonetheless may be prone to periods of incompetence), and the other group is motivated by mendacious intentions, then there is little point in discussing issues with them because they are not to be turned.

I might be a member of a political party and highly unlikely to ever vote for the other side, but I don't consider Labor to not have genuine intentions to do good.

 

[Sttew]

Opening 4,000 was clearly nonsense, probably a mis-communication somewhere.

No need dwelling on this but the communication was a Media Statement signed by the Premier

 

[Sttew]

Did they lie about the levy?

Until the new levy came in, the cost of running the emergency services came out of consolidated revenue and had for eons. Now a new levy will fund this, meaning the funds previously used for these services can be channelled elsewhere, like SRL. And like Roads funding, the government blames climate change which is bullshit.

Opening 4,000 was clearly nonsense, probably a mis-communication somewhere.

Ha. A Media Statement signed by the Premier!

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

But any move to move away from NIMBY attitudes to medium density housing will put seats like Kew, Hawthorn, Brighton and Sandringham in play, regardless of whether the support for building medium density housing is coming from both major parties.

Which makes life a bit of an issue for the Liberals. A good housing policy will have to piss off the NIMBYs in those seats.

 

[aCunningPlan]

It's amazing Wilson has risen to the position of leader but rather than see that as a sign the Liberals finally caring about anyone under the age of 50, it just demonstrates the total lack of depth with the party. She's a breath of fresh air that the party needs but I can't help but think under any other circumstance she wouldn't be looked at as a leader for another term or two.

Wilson's story isn't even that unique in parliament. Labor have their own 34 year old, first term, young mother, former political staffer MLA in Martha Haylett who proved herself by knocking off Louise Staley. The difference being while Jess represents one of the wealthiest areas in the state in Kew, Martha represents one of the poorest with regional cities like Maryborough and Ararat. I know which politician would resonate more with millennials.

 

[aCunningPlan]

She is not Pentecostal. She was baptised Catholic and married in the Catholic Church

You've written her off already based on false information?

What is it that makes Catholics, either practicing or just cultural, so electable in Australia?

 

[Saint]

For whatever reason, you consider these mistakes by Labor but deliberate lies by their opponents. That speaks to motivation, and once one becomes convinced that one group is motivated by good intentions (but nonetheless may be prone to periods of incompetence), and the other group is motivated by mendacious intentions, then there is little point in discussing issues with them because they are not to be turned.

I might be a member of a political party and highly unlikely to ever vote for the other side, but I don't consider Labor to not have genuine intentions to do good.

I guess I look at the ALP through the lens of "What would the Unions and selfish politicians want to do"
When I look at the LNP, the lens is "What would the Business Council and selfish politicians want to do"

I guess it's just more often that I find myself more aligned with what the Unions would want rather than what the Business Council would want.

I've never voted ALP first preference and my criticism of the SRL project is vociferous and repeated in professional and this unprofessional forum. I still can't believe the LNP can't come up with a decent opposition to the project, to the point where it must be incompetence or maybe the BCA told them to keep quiet.

No need dwelling on this but the communication was a Media Statement signed by the Premier

There are less than 3,000 ICU beds in Australia. And you thought that the ALP were planning on delivering more than that?

You think that the Vic nurses Union thought "finally, 10x more beds than we already have" ?

I worked on the Vic Heart Hospital, and I knew for a fact that the Government was not going to deliver 4,000 new permanent ICU beds, regardless of their announcement.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

It will be interesting to see how the member for Kew, one of the more well-heeled areas of Melbourne, is going to go connecting with aspirational property owners in the sand belt down towards Cranbourne/Frankston area and the outer suburbs of Melbourne, let alone the regions.

Cannot wait to see her review a hsp while having champers.

But more realistically she cannot, she strikes me as never been to the end of the train lines,

 

[Bombermania]

Victorian Liberals perform better political when led by someone from a middle/upper class background. In the last six state elections won by the Liberal Party, they were led by MPs from the inner East.

 

[Sttew]

What is it that makes Catholics, either practicing or just cultural, so electable in Australia?

Not sure it does. Historically, you were Catholic or Protestant. It's almost meaningless today. I was just pointing out to someone that Wilson is not Pentecostal as was claimed.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The truth about increasing housing supply is, for the Victorian Libs, it's a wedge.

Wilson is close to Evan Mulholland, the MLC who is probably the strongest voice internally for building all sorts of housing and not falling back into tired talking points about local amenity and heritage in order to win seats close to the city. Ms Wilson is the Member for one of those seats.

So while I don't see Ms Wilson attacking the planning changes proposed by the Allan Government with the same gusto as say, James Newbury, she is a member of a group of younger Liberals who believe that the time to change tack has certainly arrived.

I would pay special attention to if she moves the planning portfolio from Richard Riordan, whose only impulse is to oppose what Labor proposes, and gives it so Mulholland or someone similar.

But any move to move away from NIMBY attitudes to medium density housing will put seats like Kew, Hawthorn, Brighton and Sandringham in play, regardless of whether the support for building medium density housing is coming from both major parties.

Checking what you mean more because I am slow, are you saying if Jess stands up against NIMBYs it could cost her her seat? Who would the nimby types vote for as I suspect labor and greens would also be pro medium density, would there be a right wing independent?

 

[Dixie Flatline]

There's next to no chance Wilson would personally lose her own seat. Kew overlaps with Kooyong, but unlike at the Federal level, there's a solid Liberal majority in Kew.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Not sure it does. Historically, you were Catholic or Protestant. It's almost meaningless today. I was just pointing out to someone that Wilson is not Pentecostal as was claimed.

Interestingly, Bracks was the first Catholic Premier when elected in 1999 since 1932 (Ned Hogan was Premier of Victoria between 1929-1932, and was the son of Irish parents and was raised as a Roman Catholic - Bracks was a Melkite Catholic who later switched to Roman Catholicism).

Brumby went to Ivanhoe Grammar School, so I assume he's an Anglican (though this isn't set in stone). Ted Baillieu was educated at Melbourne Grammar School, so I assume again that he's an Anglican. Napthine was raised as a Catholic. Dan Andrews was also raised as a devout Catholic, but he voted in favour of abortion law reform and when he spoke to the Catholic Church about the legislation to amend abortion laws in Victoria, he refused to listen to the clergy who told him that the legislation was contrary to Church doctrine. I don't know what religion Jacinta Allan follows, if any.

 

[Drought Break]

Thread should be changed to the joke that is Victoria. 2 choices of left wing governments with the same thought process. Enjoy your debt, crime and treaty peeps

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Thread should be changed to the joke that is Victoria. 2 choices of left wing governments with the same thought process. Enjoy your debt, crime and treaty peeps

This right here is peak cooker.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

This is also peak irony. You've been baked on some ****ing stupid youtube culture war shit to believe the Liberal party are left wing. Have a go at thinking bro.

 

[Drought Break]

This is also peak irony. You've been baked on some ****ing stupid youtube culture war shit to believe the Liberal party are left wing. Have a go at thinking bro.

The Victorian liberals have a strong left wing faction and pushed for the new leader. But I suppose this is just a cooker’s viewpoint

 

[Theseventhhamster]

The Victorian liberals have a strong left wing faction and pushed for the new leader. But I suppose this is just a cooker’s viewpoint

The Victorian Liberals were taken over by very right wing religious nuffies years ago. You couldn't be more off base.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

At what point between now and the next state election will the Liberals announce the return of the East-West link project?

 

[Deliverance]

Cannot wait to see her review a hsp while having champers.

But more realistically she cannot, she strikes me as never been to the end of the train lines,

That's OK, her deputy went beyond the Frankston line all the way to Portsea.

 

[The Punter]

The Victorian liberals have a strong left wing faction and pushed for the new leader. But I suppose this is just a cooker’s viewpoint

The key group of votes that swung behind Ms Wilson was led by Bev McArthur, who was duly rewarded with the Upper House leader's position. In case you have not heard of Mrs McArthur, she is definitely not left wing.

 

[The Punter]

Checking what you mean more because I am slow, are you saying if Jess stands up against NIMBYs it could cost her her seat? Who would the nimby types vote for as I suspect labor and greens would also be pro medium density, would there be a right wing independent?

Firstly, the teals aren't really anti-NIMBY. I don't follow Booroondara City Council politics closely, but I would be interested what stance Kate Torney is taking on development issues. Either way, it is likely there would be a NIMBY alternative (BTW, the Greens are decidedly anti-development, and anarchic co-operatives tend not to build medium and high density housing).

And all I said was it would put the seat in play. Protest votes don't tend to behave entirely rationally all the time.