Have Richmond passed North and west coast

[Happy Mastenator]

Again, North should be much further ahead. They've had a massive headstart on both West Coast and Tigers.

West Coast won a flag in 2018, in 2021 they were 9th.
Richmond won a flag in 2020, in 2022 they were 7th.
North haven't won a flag in forever, in 2016 they managed to finish 8th.

 

[Makeshift Park]

I am looking back at the 2022 AFL Draft, I think I would prefer Taranto & Hopper with where our picks would have been Hopper maybe a lil bit less, but I don't think it's been a disaster looking back, that's what you have got to compare them to.

I like what we have done instead with getting into the bumper 2024 AFL Draft and continuing on & getting 2 top talents in the 2025 Draft.

Fair enough. I only raise the subject of Taranto and Hopper because of the Bombers supporter arguing that Richmond is in a better longterm position than North, citing the contributions of those two players as an example of a better list build.

The picks for Taranto could have gotten Weddle or Darcy Jones and Gruzewski. The picks for Hopper could have gotten Caddy, Curtin or COS AND Mannagh or Freijah.

For me, its clear that the Shaw-Noble era for North set our rebuild back at least 3 seasons. But if we're comparing the longterm prospects of 2025 Richmond versus 2025 North, I think it requires too much speculation to be confident one way or the other.

 

[Aido97]

Where are these 8-10 wins coming from?
Double up games against West Coast, North, Melbourne and Stkilda. Hard to see you winning all of them, who else are you going to beat?

West Coast x 2
Melbourne x 2
Essendon
North we split
Carlton
Port Adelaide
then will pinch some we shouldnt like we did Gold Coast this year and should have against GWS

 

[Aido97]

Lets just remember how easily we beat the Tigers with many of our starting 18 unavailable. If your winning 8-10 I am excited to see what we can do.

We won the same amount of games last year but we had a stack more first year players and injury to key players. I have us winning a similar amount next year

 

[Aido97]

lol you think Reid is better than McKercher.

Hilarious. Say no more. You're beyond help.

Reid is a real good player. Would have been exceptional 25 years ago. McKercher is genuinely colossal the way the game is played these days.

As a neutral this is one of the more ******ed takes ive seen in this thread. Nobody around the league other than the worst norf nuffs is taking McKercher over Reid

 

[Aido97]

The Wardlaw being quick thing just confuses me. I'll be honest i don't watch many North games because watching the eagles each week is bad enough, but i have never thought Wardlaw was quick. In fact i think he's going to face issues moving forward given how slow he is.

Maybe i just missed the games where he blew people away with speed.

Wardlaw goes hard at the footy. Thats his best and only good trait.

Doesnt find a lot of the footy
Doesnt do anything good with it when he does
Isnt quick
isnt elite defensively

Its one of the more perplexing overhyping ive seen of a young player in the last 15 years

 

[fl4gd0n5]

This is laughable.

Richmond have topped up, brought in experience and have no good young players. None.

Would any of Richmond's kids make the Top 8 kids at Norf? I'm waiting.

I'm sure you'll find one (who's 24) but don't even bother with Hammies Laylor.

Richmond first hit the draft hard last year, how good do you want the players to be after one season? They didn’t put their kids at half back to rack up 700 meaningless, uncontested kicks a game like Sheezel.

Who are North’s top eight kids? In no particular order I’ve got (and I’m counting kids as 22 or under)
1. Sheezel
2. McKercher
3. Powell
4. Curtis
5. Wardlaw? (Hard to include given injury)

I’ve thrown a blanket over the rest of Dawson, Archer, Hardeman, Duursma and Whitlock. The rest either have less than ten games or are garbage.

Richmond’s top kids? Also in no particular order.
1. Lalor
2. Gibcus
3. Hotton
4. Brown
5. Faull
6. Campbell

Can fill up the last two with any of the early draftees from last year or this year. Ironically the only one of the Richmond kid’s that wouldn’t walk into North’s team is Lalor because of how similar he is to Zurhaar.

I think you’re just not considering the fact that some of the North kids are years older than the Richmond ones. You can’t compare 18 year olds with 21 year olds. There is nuance in this discussion that you clearly can’t see because you’re blinded by bias.

 

[Daka]

As a neutral this is one of the more ******ed takes ive seen in this thread. Nobody around the league other than the worst norf nuffs is taking McKercher over Reid

I know right wtf

 

[fl4gd0n5]

26 next year.

30+ points down at half time in the 2014 Elim as well.

Footy has been so much worse since we used to kick absolute shit out of one another 30 years ago.

26? I thought the funny joke was that they haven’t won a final for 21 years. Especially considering North haven’t won anything since before Essendon’s last premiership?

2014 final was bad for Essendon and good for North, they didn’t go on to win anything that season. Congrats

Interesting how North haven’t won against Essendon since they had all the players suspended in 2016, or finished on more points than Essendon in a season since 2016 either. Essendon have cheated, had their players and coach suspended and North still haven’t been able to go past them lol.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Isnt quick

Ok, I'll bite.

He does have elite acceleration and agility. That's just obvious.

What's been holding him back has been an inadequate tank. Hopefully will be resolved this offseason. We'll see.

 

[Aido97]

Fair enough. I only raise the subject of Taranto and Hopper because of the Bombers supporter arguing that Richmond is in a better longterm position than North, citing the contributions of those two players as an example of a better list build.

The picks for Taranto could have gotten Weddle or Darcy Jones and Gruzewski. The picks for Hopper could have gotten Caddy, Curtin or COS AND Mannagh or Freijah.

For me, its clear that the Shaw-Noble era for North set our rebuild back at least 3 seasons. But if we're comparing the longterm prospects of 2025 Richmond versus 2025 North, I think it requires too much speculation to be confident one way or the other.

The picks for Hopper could have easily been Phoenix Gothard and Riley Hardeman too.

Taranto has been an elite pick up. Hopper not as much but still a handy contributor.

We have kids galore coming through and went unprecedently hard in the 2024 draft with all but Smillie (injured) and Alger (late pick) showing they belong at AFL level. Lalor, Hotton and Faull in particular look set to be absolute stars.

 

[Chip Scab1]

26? I thought the funny joke was that they haven’t won a final for 21 years. Especially considering North haven’t won anything since before Essendon’s last premiership?

2014 final was bad for Essendon and good for North, they didn’t go on to win anything that season. Congrats

Interesting how North haven’t won against Essendon since they had all the players suspended in 2016, or finished on more points than Essendon in a season since 2016 either. Essendon have cheated, had their players and coach suspended and North still haven’t been able to go past them lol.

lol which one is it? Norf don't have to "go past", we already infinitely closer than you. You've had what, 3-4 cracks at this rebuild and still going backwards with your decent older players (Merrett) wanting out. You can say you beat us, you did, but was it you or the AFL wrongfully suspending Paul Curtis (again) which was the difference?

 

[Footy Smarts]

I am looking back at the 2022 AFL Draft, I think I would prefer Taranto & Hopper with where our picks would have been Hopper maybe a lil bit less, but I don't think it's been a disaster looking back, that's what you have got to compare them to.

This is looking back with the most rose coloured glasses.

Dan Curtin was taken with the pick you traded for Hopper. He has to be a top 10 young talent in the league and you'd give up a Taranto and Hopper for Curtin alone in a heartbeat.

The picks in the 2022 that you gave up became Elijah Hewett, Max Gruzewski and Toby McMullin.

Hewett's had injury issues and Gruzewski is stuck behind Hogan and Cadman at GWS. But they're both extremely talented. I'd probably take those two before any young player on Richmond's list prior to last year's draft (Seth Campbell is the only one who would come close to their ceiling).

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Richmond first hit the draft hard last year, how good do you want the players to be after one season? They didn’t put their kids at half back to rack up 700 meaningless, uncontested kicks a game like Sheezel.

Who are North’s top eight kids? In no particular order I’ve got (and I’m counting kids as 22 or under)
1. Sheezel
2. McKercher
3. Powell
4. Curtis
5. Wardlaw? (Hard to include given injury)

I’ve thrown a blanket over the rest of Dawson, Archer, Hardeman, Duursma and Whitlock. The rest either have less than ten games or are garbage.

Richmond’s top kids? Also in no particular order.
1. Lalor
2. Gibcus
3. Hotton
4. Brown
5. Faull
6. Campbell

Can fill up the last two with any of the early draftees from last year or this year. Ironically the only one of the Richmond kid’s that wouldn’t walk into North’s team is Lalor because of how similar he is to Zurhaar.

I think you’re just not considering the fact that some of the North kids are years older than the Richmond ones. You can’t compare 18 year olds with 21 year olds. There is nuance in this discussion that you clearly can’t see because you’re blinded by bias.

Just say you hate North and move on.

Who are the North kids that are garbage? You haven't even named O'Sullivan

 

[Daka]

This is looking back with the most rose coloured glasses.

Dan Curtin was taken with the pick you traded for Hopper. He has to be a top 10 young talent in the league and you'd give up a Taranto and Hopper for Curtin alone in a heartbeat.

The picks in the 2022 that you gave up became Elijah Hewett, Max Gruzewski and Toby McMullin.

Hewett's had injury issues and Gruzewski is stuck behind Hogan and Cadman at GWS. But they're both extremely talented. I'd probably take those two before any young player on Richmond's list prior to last year's draft (Seth Campbell is the only one who would come close to their ceiling).

Don't like Sam Banks or Tom Brown's improvement?

Time will ultimately tell as we only just started our rebuild pretty much.
I preferred the 2024 draft over 2022/2023.
So I am not upset that we have gone this way maybe it was not the plan but it's fallen that way.

With Bolton, Baker & Rioli wanting out.

 

[Chip Scab1]

The drafts we traded out of haven’t exactly set the world on fire….
The Hopper trade was a bust… but let’s see how it goes in the next 2-3 years when we start climbing.

I agree. But on the flip side, you (anyone) can't exactly call it a disaster when we walked away with Whitlock, Dovaston, Thredgold for George Foreman and pick ~50 next year.

Lot to play out either way, but can't see either team being too disappointed.

 

[tiger_tough]

More. That part of our rebound was too long, not 37, just 25.

That part of your rebuild hasn't even started.

Some call it "ripping the band aid off" - it had to happen, then you can get a few old timers (premiership players) in to show the kids the way to prepare, train and execute.

Had we not had any injuries/suspensions, sure, your analysis would have been correct. But we did, and as a result not one of our young defenders was available (outside of first year Hardeman)...

Let's crack in to Norf, when Archer, Goater, George, Dawson & Whitlock and the new kids have shown they're not up to it. There's a chance it will happen.

Wut?

 

[tiger_tough]

Can fill up the last two with any of the early draftees from last year or this year. Ironically the only one of the Richmond kid’s that wouldn’t walk into North’s team is Lalor because of how similar he is to Zurhaar.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Wut?

I understand English is probably your 2nd language (at least I hope)

The bit of the rebound where your talented kids start moving the needle. You're not there yet as proved by your BnF. It's ok, who cares? You won 3 not that long ago.

 

[the big lebowski]

Think both teams are in decent spots.

North should jump significantly in 2026. i have them going past Essendon, Melbourne, Port at a very minimum.

An interesting take earlier from the Essendon supporter saying they are worried about Wardlaw. Would Richmond not be worried about Smillie as well? Injured as we speak and has already missed a full season.

Or Lalor?

Has done more hammies at afl level than Wardlaw

 

[the big lebowski]

Yeah some good points there.

I don't see an issue with North going heavy on midfielders at the draft. Sheezel and Mckercher were clear standouts in their years, and O'Sullivan could end up being as good as both of them.

I completely disagree with the poster saying North needed to draft key position players to develop them in line with Sheezel, Wardlaw etc. Not the case at all.

North will throw a TDK type offer at a Jed Walter, Josh Treacy, Logan Morris type and get them that way. Once they show their midfield is elite, getting another gun key forward next to Larkey will be a lot easier.

There’s a good chance we already have that player. And from a similar pathway to Treacy.

Cooper Trembath averages

3 goals
1.3 behinds
0.7 goal assists
2 contested marks
1.3 tackles inside 50

The sky should be the limit

 

[JZTIME!]

We won the same amount of games last year but we had a stack more first year players and injury to key players. I have us winning a similar amount next year

Our percentage was healthier and we lost 6 games by 9 points or less. Not sure on your results but from a distance you were not as competitive after the early rounds. I'm not a gambler but if there was a market for us winning more games than you I would have some of that

 

[Footy Smarts]

Don't like Sam Banks or Tom Brown's improvement?

Banks is ok. Not a lot of defensive accountability or contested ball winning ability but he's dangerous with ball in hand. His ceiling isn't huge though and I'd take the younger Hewett and Gruzewski ahead of him easily given their upside.

Brown finished behind a completely cooked Kamdyn McIntosh in your B&F. He finished behind a cooked Prestia despite playing twice as many games. That's in his 4th season. If that's improvement he must've been utterly shit before this season.

 

[Aido97]

I agree. But on the flip side, you (anyone) can't exactly call it a disaster when we walked away with Whitlock, Dovaston, Thredgold for George Foreman and pick ~50 next year.

Lot to play out either way, but can't see either team being too disappointed.

None of those Norf players have proven a thing. Whitlock looked horribly outside his depth even at vfl level for the most part. He keep crapping on about Richmond players having proved nothing but they’ve all shown 100x more than Whitlock

 

[nut]

I agree. But on the flip side, you (anyone) can't exactly call it a disaster when we walked away with Whitlock, Dovaston, Thredgold for George Foreman and pick ~50 next year.

Lot to play out either way, but can't see either team being too disappointed.

Dont forget you got Callum Coleman-Jones too….