Preview Round 20 Richmond vs Fremantle @ Optus Stadium, Sun 1st August, 5.10pm

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If we win these next four games we are likely to play finals, but at the same time do we really want to?

If we slide in to the 8th position we will be 1 game behind 7th, 3 behind 6th and 4 behind 1-5th. Its clear that this year there is a class differential separating the top 6 from the rest. I believe that in an elimination final we stand a chance but you would be dreaming if you could see us winning anything after that.

I think that after 4 long seasons fatigue has finally caught up with the players (especially those of age) and the hunger amongst some of the younger players is gone. Not winning it this year (or even not making finals) can act as a reset for the players to gear up for the 2022 season, it'll be cotchins , jack and Edwards last season and after an ordinary 2021 season I think the coaches and players could enter the season hungrier than ever.

I personally don't want us to make finals, rutton summed it up nicely on the weekend....even though it was for Essendon...."We won't go far".

Id rather that than get embarrassed by Sydney, Brisbane or Port all at home.
 

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D_M_4 said:
At least he kicks goals unlike Castagna.........
id rather see RCD or another small forward running around over Aarts
Click to expand...
18 v 16 isn't a lot to write home about...

As much as George is out of form, he still offers more than Aarts...

On form both get dropped, we know that won't happen, so if one goes, I think it should be Aarts
 
It seems so common amongst supporters to stop persisting with Aarts and Castagna. Why can't the coaches see this? They simply just don't offer enough. We need to reshuffle our forward line as the 'small forwards' aren't working.
It also doesn't help that our delivery into the forward line is EXTREMELY poor.

I would much rather see Caddy as a marking or even leading target in the forward line. He would be perfect to help block for Riewoldt or Lynch. (why on earth do we not do this!?) I can't remember the last time Lynch took a pack mark, or a perfectly timed leading mark.
We need to draft a true HFF type and more key defenders.

I'd like to see:
Out - Aarts, Castagna, Garth, Ross
In - Prestia, RCD, Broad, Caddy

Most likely:
out - Ross
In - Prestia

Garth for Broad (if he's ready). I am losing patience with Ross. Although, I'm not completely against playing him till the end of the season, which could be for his career as we might use RCD/Dow/new recruits/draftees to come.
 
I am officially over both Aarts & costanza
but it seems they are being asked to do the dirty work of covering defensively for our midfielders with no reward. When the ball comes to our fwd there are no smalls as they are all up the ground. The ball is bombed to the talls where jack & lynch are double teamed and chol is useless, pushed easily and the ball comes out fairly easily for an oppo goal. The only mid i see helping defensively is JG
Shai is not showing that intent, lambert is slowly gaining fitness and looks gassed out pretty early in games.

For our game plan to work, our defence structure has to be spot on and with the outs its nearly impossible.

Once we get Broad, vlas & prestia back, things can change very quickly. Prestia provides the grunt and broad and vlas are v important for our defence

Stack plays mid/ forward, rioli plays HB, one of geroge/aarst get the chop

That's just my thinking !
 
D_M_4 said:
If we win these next four games we are likely to play finals, but at the same time do we really want to?

If we slide in to the 8th position we will be 1 game behind 7th, 3 behind 6th and 4 behind 1-5th. Its clear that this year there is a class differential separating the top 6 from the rest. I believe that in an elimination final we stand a chance but you would be dreaming if you could see us winning anything after that.

I think that after 4 long seasons fatigue has finally caught up with the players (especially those of age) and the hunger amongst some of the younger players is gone. Not winning it this year (or even not making finals) can act as a reset for the players to gear up for the 2022 season, it'll be cotchins , jack and Edwards last season and after an ordinary 2021 season I think the coaches and players could enter the season hungrier than ever.

I personally don't want us to make finals, rutton summed it up nicely on the weekend....even though it was for Essendon...."We won't go far".

Id rather that than get embarrassed by Sydney, Brisbane or Port all at home.
Click to expand...
Put it this way, the alternative to us making finals this year is likely finishing 9th or 10th.

Not much difference in draft picks for finishing 9th/10th versus finishing 8th, so I'm not worried about the draft pick side of things if we sneak into finals.

Then there's the Ninthmond tag, so 9th I simply do not want, we don't deserve the Ninthmond tag after the past few seasons and even though I don't care what others think, it's hard not to get salty when they keep bringing up the old joke.

Unless we're talking a crash down to say 11th-13th for a juicier pick, why not just finish 8th and have a crack?

We've seen this year that our best football still beats the best, we beat the Dogs and we beat Brisbane, all without anything close to resembling our best 22.

I know we can sound like we're making excuses but let's be honest, have we had a proper crack at things this season? Due to draft equalisation and, let's admit, perhaps a little poor recruiting recently, we basically have no genuine quality depth. But this is true for any team that has spent a period at the top. So I don't agree that the top 6 is a class above, heck, Sydney has had some crap games recently, Melbourne is now looking questionable one week and good again the next, and the Dogs we've beaten, so it's really only Geelong. We simply have not been given a proper look this season, we've barely had our best side on the park and, again, due to a lack of depth we simply need our best side out there to be our best. We always start seasons slow on purpose but this season we did that and then, instead of coming good, we lost everyone to injuries. I guarantee you we'd be top 4 if we had a fairly injury-free year, but this year has genuinely been one basically from hell.

Sadly it may have been this core group's last crack at being clearly the best (outside maybe this current Geelong). We haven't been given a fair look at things and next year they'll all be yet another year older, so it will definitely get even harder. But anyway, I maintain if we get a couple of new faces that are ready to go, we can still win it in 2022, absolutely.

But again, I don't believe for a second we're now a class below, we just haven't had a good run at things. I'd love to see what we can do with our best 21 come finals (no Dusty sadly :( ) and then reload for 2022, OR just tank and go 0-4 from here and get some juicy picks.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
Aarts 2 goals were luck more than good footy TBH...
Click to expand...

Small forward luck = being in the right spot at the right time.

Although they ain't killing it by any stretch.
 
Dr Tigris said:
Small forward luck = being in the right spot at the right time.

Although they ain't killing it by any stretch.
Click to expand...
the harder you work, the luckier you get... sometimes...

Aarts lack of agility and pace kills him for the position he plays...
His footy IQ though is not too bad to put himself in enough positions to score...
His execution (or decision making) is poor under pressure though... Too many times trying to shrug oppo off and gets caught etc.
 
the other thing with dropping Aarts and George, is you need small fwds to replace them, as we can't change a gamestyle overnight...

The options IMO would be send baker fwd for one of them at least, especially now Rioli has gone back...

But unless MRJ is ready, there's no one to replace the other one.
 
Last couple of years we have shifted things and cemented out game olan a couple of games out from finals and thats how we’ve played all the way through.
Obviously we are gonna get a few back but I dont think we’ve seen the way the coaches want the team to structure up yet.

Aarts and Castagna stay in for now.

Prestia in for Parker
Caddy in for Ross
Broad Sub
 
Cdog71 said:
Last couple of years we have shifted things and cemented out game olan a couple of games out from finals and thats how we’ve played all the way through.
Obviously we are gonna get a few back but I dont think we’ve seen the way the coaches want the team to structure up yet.

Aarts and Castagna stay in for now.

Prestia in for Parker
Caddy in for Ross
Broad Sub
Click to expand...
Parker may have butchered it last week a few times, but on effort and output, there are plenty in the gun before him...
Ross had one of his better games for the season, after a good showing as sub the week before against Brissy, he stays in as well...

If Prestia comes in, I can see Parker moving out to a wing... not sure who makes way...

I would like to see Chol out for CCJ...
 
Hank Heavenly said:
the harder you work, the luckier you get... sometimes...

Aarts lack of agility and pace kills him for the position he plays...
His footy IQ though is not too bad to put himself in enough positions to score...
His execution (or decision making) is poor under pressure though... Too many times trying to shrug oppo off and gets caught etc.
Click to expand...

Watch me disagree with you. Just watch
 

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Rioli2Rioli said:
Who ???
Click to expand...


All players that have played more senior footy than RCD, Naish, Ross, CCJ, Parker, Dow, Mansell etc. Not only do they some of their top 5 players out in Fyfe, Waters out - they also have a good chunk of their 18-28 roster level guys out - so they are having to dig pretty deep to name a decent side as well.

FFS, we are playing Freo without Fyfe & Waters- its literally the first 2 players i worry about when we play them. There is no way we can blame injury against a sub-par team with a good chink of injuries too - our 22 will be far better in reputation than theres, without a doubt
 
Cdog71 said:
Last couple of years we have shifted things and cemented out game olan a couple of games out from finals and thats how we’ve played all the way through.
Obviously we are gonna get a few back but I dont think we’ve seen the way the coaches want the team to structure up yet.

Aarts and Castagna stay in for now.

Prestia in for Parker
Caddy in for Ross
Broad Sub
Click to expand...

I like the sentiment and agree. Disagree on the personnel.

Balme said on the podcast that Broad hasn't trained yet, let alone played a praccy / ressies game, and I really don't want to see another under-done player in the team.

Prestia is an important in - if his properly ready to go.

I thought Parker played with intensity, at least. I'd keep him, but less time in the middle, more time HFF. IMO, Cotch needs a spell. It's pretty hard watching the champ like this.

Feel less strongly about Caddy for Ross. Caddy hasn't been great this season, but neither has Ross. Ross probably has more up-side. Neither give us what we really need defensively. 50/50 call.
 
D_M_4 said:
If we win these next four games we are likely to play finals, but at the same time do we really want to?

If we slide in to the 8th position we will be 1 game behind 7th, 3 behind 6th and 4 behind 1-5th. Its clear that this year there is a class differential separating the top 6 from the rest. I believe that in an elimination final we stand a chance but you would be dreaming if you could see us winning anything after that.

I think that after 4 long seasons fatigue has finally caught up with the players (especially those of age) and the hunger amongst some of the younger players is gone. Not winning it this year (or even not making finals) can act as a reset for the players to gear up for the 2022 season, it'll be cotchins , jack and Edwards last season and after an ordinary 2021 season I think the coaches and players could enter the season hungrier than ever.

I personally don't want us to make finals, rutton summed it up nicely on the weekend....even though it was for Essendon...."We won't go far".

Id rather that than get embarrassed by Sydney, Brisbane or Port all at home.
Click to expand...
You "personally don't want us to make finals" ? And "do we really want to" ?

I wonder where you were for those 37 years where we made finals TWICE !

Soooo you're saying we should deliberately lose the last four games ?

Or are you hoping we lose the last four games ? A Richmond supporter actually wishing finals away. I never thought I'd see the day.

Or are you suggesting we TANK (rest the old blokes and play kids who aren't ready, aren't match fit or haven't earned a game) ? You're aware of course what that does to the culture of a club right ?

So what exactly are you saying ?

Because it doesn't really make sense to me that you're a supporter but you don't want us to win. What is that ?

Yes I'm pissed off with the way a lot of posters here are giving up. The club hasn't given up so why are "supporters" throwing in the towell ??

******* embarrassing.
 
For those of you suggesting/hoping/wishing that we tank and try to finish as low as we can, perhaps to get a better draft picks (?) I remind you that we currently have 6 picks inside 50 and can use those picks to trade up the order anyway. We ALREADY have more draft points than any other club.

I was always taught that you try to win EVERY game, that you put your BEST side out on the field and that you NEVER GIVE UP.

Ever.

You see never is short for NOT EVER.

Until it's mathematically impossible to get there. Thankfully the club thinks the same.

So you can suggest/hope/wish but you're probably "supporting" the wrong club. Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon are all...that way.
 
I’d be very disappointed if the board had the mindset from some of these comments… Need to keep that winning culture, regardless of the circumstances we have a good chance to make finals and at least attempt to defend our flag.

If Prestia comes in, which is most likely. I think Parker will go down forward and rotate into the middle because his tackling and grunt work is good. It also adds diversity down forward because Stags and Aarts are no threat whatsoever. We need that mid sized forward who can be a target like a Caddy in the 2017 season. If Broad comes in, it’ll most likely be Garthwaite who makes way if they don’t try him forward, imo just too short and slow to be playing on the key defensive oppo most of the time.
 
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