Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[HeathySure]

Where to start...Dusty, Cotchin, Edwards, Bolton, Prestia, Short...ok

Dusty forward Cotchin fair Edwards forward Bolton forward Prestia good but injury prone Short lol back

 

[nineteen eighty]

Dusty forward Cotchin fair Edwards forward Bolton forward Prestia good but injury prone Short lol back

They all ran through the middle. We had exceptional depth and hence we had them playing mid / forward.

Fair to say I'm comfortable in my knowledge of the Tigers team through our 3 flags and how they played. Short granted is a stretch. My typing got ahead of my brain. Maybe I should have included Graham.

Anyway, let's get back to the Pies rebuild

 

[txbyhull]

Do the Pies really have any young players aside from Nick?

 

[nineteen eighty]

Do the Pies really have any young players aside from Nick?

Sidebottom and Howe from memory.

 

[HeathySure]

They all ran through the middle. We had exceptional depth and hence we had them playing mid / forward.

Fair to say I'm comfortable in my knowledge of the Tigers team through our 3 flags and how they played. Short granted is a stretch. My typing got ahead of my brain. Maybe I should have included Graham.

Anyway, let's get back to the Pies rebuild

Its a versatile midfield. I would include Ross and Lambert too, Nice players but no stars.

Anyway Dogs have a star studded midfield and cant make the 8. My point stands. you dont need a sensational midfield you need a balanced well coached team. Which we have

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Midfields with tremendous depth are what wins flags along with excellent backlines and potent forward lines. Your midfield (other than Daicos) is far from where it needs to be. Ok we can include Josh in there alongside Nick. I struggle to see how the others will step up other than being role players. Daicos can't carry them all. Your backline (and structure) is good but was found out in the last third of last year.

Your forward line is average. Membrey and McStay as your key forwards...nothing more needs to be said. Your forward line was the worst of the top sides by hundreds of points last year and you lost the key structure forward (Mihocek) who also kicked 30+ goals last year.

And Hill is an unlikely starter for this year from what I am hearing. And he's key to your run and carry game.

Put aside your average forward line for now. Where is your excellent - very good midfield depth coming from? Moneyball?? I don't think so.

Checkers is addition by subtraction - he was unbelieveably washed up last season. Jamie Elliot is actually our key forward and you can dislike it as much as you want but the results speak for themselves. A forward line of Elliot-Hill-Mcreery-Schulz-Mcstay-Membrey is potent asf.


Our midfield of Nick,JDG,Steele,Pendles,Jack Crisp and others is incredibly potent too. Those are some of the greatest finals performers ever right there.

Backline anchored by Moore, Quaynor, Maynard, Houston, J.Daicos is ****ing good, all of those players have AA blazers and i am not even including Howe because he has been so injured lately.

The team is stacked. Ned Long is a really, really good player too. Brisbane have had lighting strike everywhere so will be difficult to beat for the next 6+ at a minimum, but the pies are the only side to consistently beat them or get close in finals.

Edit: Darcy Cameron was the best ruckman in the comp last year and re-signed for a few more years much cheaper than he would have gotten at West Coast. Our team is elite, our coach is elite and we have a lot of natural benefits being a massive melbourne club.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

explain to me how the most expensive recruits - ala Houston, Schultz every off-season is mimicking sabermetrics pls.

Because draft picks mean sweet **** all and the best clubs know this.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

If you really think you have a midfield that can compete with the top teams then what more can I say other than...ok.

JDG - one of the best finals players
Crisp - one of the best finals players
Sidebottom - one of the best finals players
Pendlebury - one of the best finals players
Nick Daicos - one of the greatest players ever entering his prime
Darcy Cameron - one of the best finals players
Josh Daicos - AA level midfielder
Ned Long - Promising young player with huge frame and tank that had some insane breakout performances last year

What am I missing? This pies midfield group is incredibly potent.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Checkers is addition by subtraction - he was unbelieveably washed up last season. Jamie Elliot is actually our key forward and you can dislike it as much as you want but the results speak for themselves. A forward line of Elliot-Hill-Mcreery-Schulz-Mcstay-Membrey is potent asf.


Our midfield of Nick,JDG,Steele,Pendles,Jack Crisp and others is incredibly potent too. Those are some of the greatest finals performers ever right there.

Backline anchored by Moore, Quaynor, Maynard, Houston, J.Daicos is ****ing good, all of those players have AA blazers and i am not even including Howe because he has been so injured lately.

The team is stacked. Ned Long is a really, really good player too. Brisbane have had lighting strike everywhere so will be difficult to beat for the next 6+ at a minimum, but the pies are the only side to consistently beat them or get close in finals.

Edit: Darcy Cameron was the best ruckman in the comp last year and re-signed for a few more years much cheaper than he would have gotten at West Coast. Our team is elite, our coach is elite and we have a lot of natural benefits being a massive melbourne club.

You may as well forget about Hill.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

You may as well forget about Hill.

He is only 26, we've got him signed for years to come and is truly a freak talent. No need to rush him back, he will have a reduced role this year but I don't see why he wouldn't stay with the pies. I tell you what we aren't trading him thats for sure.

 

[txbyhull]

He is only 26, we've got him signed for years to come and is truly a freak talent. No need to rush him back, he will have a reduced role this year but I don't see why he wouldn't stay with the pies. I tell you what we aren't trading him thats for sure.

You'd hope you wouldn't be trading him given his value is about to be a third rounder

 

[Scotland]

No. Here's why. I can expand on all of these points.

#1. Rebuilds don't work.

Collingwood made a GF in 2018 and have really only had one really poor season since, in 2021 winning 6 games. So we'll call that 'not rebuilding'. With the exception of Geelong, which other team in the top 8 hasn't rebuilt?

Adelaide, Brisbane, Fremantle, Gold Coast, Hawthorn were all pretty ordinary in the 2010s and/or 2020s. GWS are a bit of a different case as they have a bit of a revolving door or entry concession players into picks into new players into picks.

 

[grayfox9]

Its a versatile midfield. I would include Ross and Lambert too, Nice players but no stars.

Anyway Dogs have a star studded midfield and cant make the 8. My point stands. you dont need a sensational midfield you need a balanced well coached team. Which we have

Collingwood isn't balanced. Still no quality key forward. Still haven't replaced Murphy. On the brink of losing a wave of quality experience, and all of Moore, Maynard, De Goey and Darcy Cameron are now in their 30s (or hitting 30 this year).

Hawthorn was also "well balanced, well coached" 10 years ago, but as history shows, they hit the wall and dropped down for an extended period.

The Bulldogs continue to fail because they have a bad coach.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

He is only 26, we've got him signed for years to come and is truly a freak talent. No need to rush him back, he will have a reduced role this year but I don't see why he wouldn't stay with the pies. I tell you what we aren't trading him thats for sure.

Tried to off load him last trade period but no takers. Hes finished in the AFL

 

[nineteen eighty]

Checkers is addition by subtraction - he was unbelieveably washed up last season. Jamie Elliot is actually our key forward and you can dislike it as much as you want but the results speak for themselves. A forward line of Elliot-Hill-Mcreery-Schulz-Mcstay-Membrey is potent asf.


Our midfield of Nick,JDG,Steele,Pendles,Jack Crisp and others is incredibly potent too. Those are some of the greatest finals performers ever right there.

Backline anchored by Moore, Quaynor, Maynard, Houston, J.Daicos is ****ing good, all of those players have AA blazers and i am not even including Howe because he has been so injured lately.

The team is stacked. Ned Long is a really, really good player too. Brisbane have had lighting strike everywhere so will be difficult to beat for the next 6+ at a minimum, but the pies are the only side to consistently beat them or get close in finals.

Edit: Darcy Cameron was the best ruckman in the comp last year and re-signed for a few more years much cheaper than he would have gotten at West Coast. Our team is elite, our coach is elite and we have a lot of natural benefits being a massive melbourne club.

To cover off a number of your points:

Agree - you are very well coached. At a minimum, the Pies have been very hard to beat.

Your midfield has been potent but I'm just not sure you can rely on the old timers. That's just my opinion though and they'll probably prove me wrong. What kills me is that a number of those that you have listed (other than JDG) are likeable and it makes me feel dirty even admitting that. I hope those old timers (to some extent) do have good seasons. So yes agree they have been potent.

Your backline does have very good players. Moore needs support as he's struggled when he's had to play the stopper role in addition to being the general down back. Houston will likely improve given he's had a full year and 2 preseasons now to adjust.

Not sold on Ned Long but each to his own.

Like I said a lot earlier in this thread, Collingwood is one of the must watches for mine this year (along with the Saints). If you keep everyone on the park and if your old timers play well, I expect you to play finals (4-8 mark). If you don't have a full list and don't have a couple of kids come through, it may make for some interesting decisions at years end.

None of us know mate. And no-one is throwing mud bricks at your club. It's a discussion that some Pies on here can have rationally. And others take extreme offense if the rest of us don't agree with them.

 

[grayfox9]

Because draft picks mean sweet **** all and the best clubs know this.

Draft picks like the ones you used to select Pendlebury and Sidebottom?

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Draft picks like the ones you used to select Pendlebury and Sidebottom?

Ya joking right? That was 2005 mate. Times have changed.

 

[Fadge]

Draft picks like the ones you used to select Pendlebury and Sidebottom?

And Freeman and Scharenberg.

 

[nineteen eighty]

And Freeman and Scharenberg.

Scharenberg is the closest I've seen of a kid come to the way Guy McKenna played. Shame what happened to him. I thought you had a beauty in him.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Tried to off load him last trade period but no takers. Hes finished in the AFL

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Head in sand

 

[grayfox9]

Ya joking right? That was 2005 mate. Times have changed.

Times have changed? Under what pretext?
Brisbane have won two flags in a row, and much of their list came from the draft. McCluggage, Rayner, Ashcroft, Ashcroft, Andrews, Bailey, Starcevich, Morris, Wilmot, the list goes on.
Suggesting that the draft means nothing is quite stupid to say the least. It appears you don't know much about football.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Collingwood isn't balanced. Still no quality key forward. Still haven't replaced Murphy. On the brink of losing a wave of quality experience, and all of Moore, Maynard, De Goey and Darcy Cameron are now in their 30s (or hitting 30 this year).

Hawthorn was also "well balanced, well coached" 10 years ago, but as history shows, they hit the wall and dropped down for an extended period.

The Bulldogs continue to fail because they have a bad coach.

hitting 30 this year means they are entering their absoloute prime, losing murphy hurt for sure.

Jamie Elliot is a key forward, idc what anyone says.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Times have changed? Under what pretext?
Brisbane have won two flags in a row, and much of their list came from the draft. McCluggage, Rayner, Ashcroft, Ashcroft, Andrews, Bailey, Starcevich, Morris, Wilmot, the list goes on.
Suggesting that the draft means nothing is quite stupid to say the least.

how many of those are father sons or academy picks? Also Brisbane totally bottomed out and were terrible for years before this run. Collingwood have been competitive every year bar 2021 for at least a few decades now.

 

[txbyhull]

hitting 30 this year means they are entering their absoloute prime