Player Watch 11 marks in a season gets you an AA Ruck position

[PowerForGood]

Good for NN deserved his spot but if you think marks are not a relevant stat for ruckman you are talking absolute rubbish


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Hey, the AA captain got picked despite not being in the top 5 for his midfield position and with a disposal efficiency of just 60%.
Edit: For clarification,
540 players got a game this season. Dangerfield finished 479th on DE. For a midfielder.
29 Cats got a game this season. Dangerfield finished 29th for DE.
Like you've said, NN completely deserved his spot based on the football I watched this year.

 

[Damon_3388]

Good for NN deserved his spot but if you think marks are not a relevant stat for ruckman you are talking absolute rubbish

They're not relevant to actual ruckwork, no. They're very much a secondary thing, particularly with the way the game has evolved in recent years.

Surely we've evolved beyond "tallest player = should take the most marks", haven't we? We're a bit more intelligent and analytical that we can understand the specifics of a player's role now, and how that relates to effective, winning football, aren't we?

If you require your ruckman to be taking a lot of marks, then I'd be looking closely at what other players in the side are doing, and whether they're performing in their role effectively too.

If taking marks is the main way your ruckman is effective, I'd suggest his actual ruckwork isn't that great (eg. Ben McEvoy), and that's his way of contributing and still having a spot in the side, without being especially effective in his specific role.

 

[Chaisa]

Why is it always North fans that talk down Nic Nat? It was 7 years ago now, get over it.

 

[Farang83150]

A big preseason from Nic Nat and I reckon he could take close to 15 marks next year.

Yeah or a big pre from max and maybe he'd stand up when his team needed him...lol...nah joking, just not his thing.

 

[Farang83150]

He dominated the 1st quarter of the 2015 GF. WC just couldnt get runs on the board and the Hawks sprinted away. Doesnt take away from what he did.

In many ways he is similar to Cyril. You dont see half of what he does in stats. Watch his games.

He is one of the 4 or 5 least concerning selections this year. There are simply enormous flaws with the Wings and Forward line. Just bizarre there is any fuss about NN.

Or his numbers would drop massively due to exhaustion. We dont really know.

A tired Goldstein is still better than their next best ruckman. That is why he solo rucks.

NN is simply explosive in the ruck. His 60% is equivalent to 85% from Gawn Grundy and Goldstein.

This guy gets it.

 

[DirtySandman]

Yeah but if they happened to lose Jeremy McGovern, Tom Barrass, Tom Cole, Josh Kennedy and Jack Darling all in one go (Im thinking a Dodgy team dinner) it may make the eagles weaker that suddenly the ruckman who doesn't take a heap of pack marks

Christ, what a doomsday scenario, if we lost our entire key position players (especially big marking tommy cole) expecting a ruckman to step up and fill all those voids would be a bit stupid.

Instead I’d have the blowtorch on Hutchings to kick a dozen goals, even if he snapped both hammies.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

So strange all the fuss made over a lack of uncontested marks by the same people ignoring the fact he was by far the highest rated ruckman by the coaches this year and the fact he didn't lose a single head to head battle. Comfortably beat all of the other elite ruckmen, which is his job, but I guess we should mark him down because WC decide not to waste his energy marking the ball in link up play. Despite that, we're still the 2nd highest marking team, it really seems like naitanui's lack of uncontested marking is really holding us back

 

[Red Black and Blue]

They just need to put restrictions on the onfield positions. Break the squad nominations down into forward/mids/backs/rucks and they can only be selected in those onfield positions. The bench can just be four mids if they want.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I'm simply using the logic they usually apply to AA team selection.

Take the 2015 AA team for instance - Josh Gibson didn't deserve to be anywhere near the back 6 of that team. Cyril and Sam Mitchell weren't INDIVIDUALLY as good as other forwards/midfielders that season either - but as reigning premiers and flag favourites, Hawthorn simply had to have SOME players in the team right?

I don't think its unfair to expect Grimes or Vlastuin be given the 2015 Gibbo treatment over a defender from a bottom 10 team like Luke Ryan honestly.

You saying sam, third in the Brownlow, 8th In AFL mvp and 7th in AFLCA Mitchell wasnt good enough to make the 2015 AA team? Nor Josh Gibson F+B for premiership team breaking records for spoiling contests were unworthy?

No, flag favourites doesn't get good players from good teams get picked over deserving players. Its why Petracca is in the team over Scott Pendlebury

Ryan was better then Vlauston and Grimes this year. Ala he got picked. If you watched more games you would come to the same conclusion. As almost everyone has.

 

[GroggSquad]

Mitchell- 2015 was 8th in AFLCA. And 7th in the AFL MVP and 3rd in the brownlow mate. You are a ******* pair of clown shoes mate

Not as good as some midfielder. Fyfe/Hanners/Priddas/mundy you could argue

Also no, favourite's for premiership don't get a god iven right to get more players in.

The fact you think Vlauston should be over Ryan is proof you haven't even seen him play. Ryans fantastic and had a remarkable year. Vlastun and Grimes good. Why don't you advocate Pendlebury because he's in a good team over Petracca?

Funny you mention Pendlebury actually.

Pendlebury and certainly Josh Kennedy had a much better season than Sam Mitchell in 2015. It was truly cruel that the selectors decided to gift Sam Mitchell a bench spot ahead of the other two just because he played for the premiership favourite.

There were no Hawthorn players that deserved to make the AA team in their 2015 flag year - if purely judging individual output.

For this reason, I think Grimes & Vlastuin in 2020 are unlucky given they play for this season's flag favourites.

 

[PurpleEyes]

I can be a bitter Freo supporter who for years has hoped for Naitanui to perform poorly because I get sick of the WA media hyping him up.
But, I would have selected him in the AA for 2020 and quite easily as my number 1 ruck. The number 2 ruck is where there could be a debate.
I was also a skeptic of the AFL player ratings system when that was first introduced, but I keenly follow that now. By the end of the 2020 Home and Away season, NN was ranked equal 2nd in the comp (1st for Ruck).

Meanwhile, and again, yes I am a biased Freo supporter, how can Fyfe (rated equal 2nd, with NN in AFL player ratings for 2020) be overlooked. Petracca (rated 1st) was a lock in for mids, Neale (6th) I can accept, and although I think extremely highly of both Bontempelli (5th) and Dangerfield (7th), how do they get named as forwards when Fyfe has been a more damaging forward (and mid) than both of them this year. And don't get me started on Boak (19th). If the AFL rating points system was used to allocate the Brownlow votes (3,2,1 for best afield each match), then Fyfe would win it in 2020 with 21 votes (3 clear of Neale). Fyfe played 14 games including one where his game time was cut short due to injury. He had the highest AFL rating in 5 of those, 2nd highest in 3 more. That is, 8 of his 13 full games he was rated 1st or 2nd best afield by the AFL player ratings score system.

 

[tonygeeks]

They're not relevant to actual ruckwork, no. They're very much a secondary thing, particularly with the way the game has evolved in recent years.

Surely we've evolved beyond "tallest player = should take the most marks", haven't we? We're a bit more intelligent and analytical that we can understand the specifics of a player's role now, and how that relates to effective, winning football, aren't we?

If you require your ruckman to be taking a lot of marks, then I'd be looking closely at what other players in the side are doing, and whether they're performing in their role effectively too.

If taking marks is the main way your ruckman is effective, I'd suggest his actual ruckwork isn't that great (eg. Ben McEvoy), and that's his way of contributing and still having a spot in the side, without being especially effective in his specific role.

Players have different strengths , downplaying Gawns ability to get back and take marks behind play is silly

Tim English could be one of the best in the near future and he’s probably no good in any of those categories you seem to say are critical

WC have developed a good system to maximise NN’s strength’s but it’s not like he’s dominated the comp since he started playing plenty of other rucks have fairly beat him out of most AA sides since he started


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[PowerForGood]

I can be a bitter Freo supporter who for years has hoped for Naitanui to perform poorly because I get sick of the WA media hyping him up.
But, I would have selected him in the AA for 2020 and quite easily as my number 1 ruck. The number 2 ruck is where there could be a debate.
I was also a skeptic of the AFL player ratings system when that was first introduced, but I keenly follow that now. By the end of the 2020 Home and Away season, NN was ranked equal 2nd in the comp (1st for Ruck).

Meanwhile, and again, yes I am a biased Freo supporter, how can Fyfe (rated equal 2nd, with NN in AFL player ratings for 2020) be overlooked. Petracca (rated 1st) was a lock in for mids, Neale (6th) I can accept, and although I think extremely highly of both Bontempelli (5th) and Dangerfield (7th), how do they get named as forwards when Fyfe has been a more damaging forward (and mid) than both of them this year. And don't get me started on Boak (19th). If the AFL rating points system was used to allocate the Brownlow votes (3,2,1 for best afield each match), then Fyfe would win it in 2020 with 21 votes (3 clear of Neale). Fyfe played 14 games including one where his game time was cut short due to injury. He had the highest AFL rating in 5 of those, 2nd highest in 3 more. That is, 8 of his 13 full games he was rated 1st or 2nd best afield by the AFL player ratings score system.

And yet in all of FReos win, Fyfe was never rated bog by the coaches

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

I’d still take Jack Watts. NN is just a bit too flakey for my liking. Sick dreads though.

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

NIC NAT’S 2020
Ranking Points: 110 (above average)
Disposals: 10.9 (above average)
Contested Possessions: 9.3 (elite)
Hitouts to Advantage: 8.6 (elite)
Clearances: 5.6 (elite)
Score Launches: 3.1 (elite)
Source: Champion Data

 

[Numero Uno]

I’d still take Jack Watts. NN is just a bit too flakey for my liking. Sick dreads though.

you're not really a glowing endorsement of the general IQ of Melbourne supporters then are you

tell Gawny to tune in on Saturday, he can watch a real ruckman play finals

 

[kane249]

Look at the type of reactions champ.

Port Adel Proud being too lazy to interpret the OP like reactions properly is the ultimate irony, given the knock on people who question Naitanuis impact also tend to be generalised as doing lazy stat analysis. He's just proving the point.

 

[Port Adel Proud]

Port Adel Proud being too lazy to interpret the OP like reactions properly is the ultimate irony, given the knock on people who question Naitanuis impact also tend to be generalised as doing lazy stat analysis. He's just proving the point.

Incompetence is often misinterpreted as laziness. #9 and I are, probably, just incompetent.

 

[Maylandsman]

Does he not take them because he can't, or because with numerous capable markers back and forward in the Eagles' line-up, he doesn't have to, and can focus on his true role instead?

Natanui has never taken a lot of marks. Even when he was with Swan Districts. Just not his forte’ I suppose.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The coaches told Naitanui to stay out of the marking contests and to not leap for contested marks. Idea is they wanted him to do compete in as many ruck contests as possible and didnt want to risk or exert himself in this area. The Eagles were also very unhappy with ground ball pressure in marking contests once it wasnt marked and Naitnaui is seen as someone who can help keep the ball in during this situation with his tackling

I suspect it will be the trait going forward. His focus now is more on keeping the opposing ruck out of any marking contests and keeping the ball in the area once it hits the ground

 

[Maylandsman]

The coaches told Naitanui to stay out of the marking contests and to not leap for contested marks. Idea is they wanted him to do compete in as many ruck contests as possible and didnt want to risk or exert himself in this area

Or more so self preservation for the big fella and his knees.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Or more so self preservation for the big fella and his knees.

A bit of both. It was after Round 4 this changed. If you look over the next 3 months of football he literally not once leaps at the ball and is in a pack mark situation. He simply isnt marking the ball because he is not there to do so

Its by instruction as opposed to pure ability. Even if it is a weakness he can take more marks then 1 a game if he wanted too. He has for many many years before this one for example

 

[Coaster2012]

4th in hitouts is bad considering that’s his strength

He averaged more hit outs but had less hit outs due to less time in the ruck.

Math not taught over there?

 

[Scotland]

He's ahead in most categories even with the gametime he plays.

Normalising the gametime just further emphasises how prolific and effective he really is.

Except normalising game time doesn't mean anything because he doesn't play 100% of game time.

That Naitanui has such an impact limited to 70-80% game time tops is great, but extrapolating over the extra 20-30% is pointless.

 

[Blackas87]

He averaged more hit outs but had less hit outs due to less time in the ruck.

Math not taught over there?

How can the best ruckman not get on the ground more. Anyway hit-outs are good when they go to advantage, and Gawn is still the best in the league at it with 33% to advantage