Player Watch #17: Daniel Rioli - 5 more years! (Contracted until 2027)

[Meteoric Rise]

Why is it obvious??? Apart from 17 prelim he has been below par on output.
I won’t buy into the all he has to in chase theory because it’s just crap.Yes he’s there to do that but he also needs to kick goals like any small forward.
George chases but also kicks goals.....
Unfortunately Daniel is horribly out of form and has no confidence atm.

Ok so George has 7.3 in 4 matches, 2.5 scoring shots per game. Rioli 4.5 in 3 matches, 3 scoring shots per game. Rioli has missed a couple he should have kicked, and was just a bit flat looking with his game generally. But if the standard is matching Castagna for goals - it completely isn’t according to Hardwick - then the only reason he wasn’t doing that is because he missed a few shots v the Hawks he should have converted.

The chase theory cannot be crap. Listen to Hardwick’s presser and he is clear Rioli’s principle job is not to get supercoach points, get kicks, handballs or score goals. Which only really leaves his principle job being to apply pressure. Hardwick says he does this very well, thus his 3 Premiership medals.

Sometimes it makes sense to believe in things you can’t see. When a team and its systems delivers three flags and a minor premiership in four seasons it makes sense to believe in what they are doing, does it not?

 

[Sol23]

Ok so George has 7.3 in 4 matches, 2.5 scoring shots per game. Rioli 4.5 in 3 matches, 3 scoring shots per game. Rioli has missed a couple he should have kicked, and was just a bit flat looking with his game generally. But if the standard is matching Castagna for goals - it completely isn’t according to Hardwick - then the only reason he wasn’t doing that is because he missed a few shots v the Hawks he should have converted.

The chase theory cannot be crap. Listen to Hardwick’s presser and he is clear Rioli’s principle job is not to get supercoach points, get kicks, handballs or score goals. Which only really leaves his principle job being to apply pressure. Hardwick says he does this very well, thus his 3 Premiership medals.

Sometimes it makes sense to believe in things you can’t see. When a team and its systems delivers three flags and a minor premiership in four seasons it makes sense to believe in what they are doing, does it not?

We have won 3 flags and my opinion is we would have won them without Rioli. You clearly believe everything that hardwick says publicly, that’s fine but I don’t.

 

[Sol23]

How many flags have those guys won? Just the one from Butler who won it with us.

Good argument!

 

[Sol23]

He was dropped because he’s been out of form nothing more nothing less. D

 

[tigerfan1961]

I have heard Hardwick make critical comments about Derek about a week ago. Balta last year and the year before. Butler before that. Probably some others as well. He doesn’t dump on the players publicly and rightly so. But he is not afraid to point out why players are playing seconds and what they can improve.

His explanation in Rioli’s case is to freshen up and get a bit of ball in hand football touch. Which to me makes perfect sense. He hasn’t been sent there due to some deficiency in his game.

Thank you MR, saved me posting the same thing

 

[sante]

He was dropped because he’s been out of form nothing more nothing less. D

Incorrect

 

[Sol23]

Thank you MR, saved me posting the same thing

Splinters

 

[Sol23]

Incorrect

What do you expect dimma to say??? Can you not see Daniel is down on confidence and form??

 

[Sol23]

Thank you MR, saved me posting the same thing

Do you have to hit the disagree on all of my posts you toss.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Splinters

No point in replying to you bud, you don’t believe what the coach is saying, and he was definitive and convincing in what he said but Rioli is no good and so out of form in your eyes. Nothings gonna change your mind and that’s ok.
I totally disagree with you and the other poster and that’s fine.
He plays a defined role in the side according to Dimma and the other coaches and they’re happy with his output. You’re not and that’s ok, your entitled to your view but unfortunately for you, the coaches make the decisions on who plays and I’m fairly certain that Dan will be back in the side this week.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Do you have to hit the disagree on all of my posts you toss.

We just have opposing views Sol, I don’t mean to offend, truly

 

[Sol23]

No point in replying to you bud, you don’t believe what the coach is saying, and he was definitive and convincing in what he said but Rioli is no good and so out of form in your eyes. Nothings gonna change your mind and that’s ok.
I totally disagree with you and the other poster and that’s fine.
He plays a defined role in the side according to Dimma and the other coaches and they’re happy with his output. You’re not and that’s ok, your entitled to your view but unfortunately for you, the coaches make the decisions on who plays and I’m fairly certain that Dan will be back in the side this week.

Ok I’ll move on for now lol
Time will tell

 

[Moppey]

All i can say is if people cannot bring themselves to criticise Rioli's current form then they never will.
Gotta laugh when people use what the coach says as evidence of a player not being crap. I read the article in question and Hardwick is clearly taking the pee.

I will say again, i have never heard Hardwick bag a player out publicly. I have heard him say a player is not being dropped for form but needs a rest or use some other spurious excuse several times, when it is clear to all that the player in question is clearly out of form.

Still no answer to the question of What role is he currently performing well to justify his spot. Surely people have an opinion of their own on this.
Please don't answer his run and chase or his tackling as most can see he is currently poor defensively and offering little offensively.

Does any one want to do the Rioli comparison while we are at it. First 5 seasons for both Cyril and Daniel. His cousin shows exactly where he should be tracking to as primarily a defensive fwd yet they are miles apart.

What Cyril shows is that our expectations should be on a player who can do both things well. Guarding space and chasing is not enough especially for a bloke in yr six with close to 100 games to his name. Cyril was giving Hawthorn in his first yr what we are currently getting out of Daniel in year six.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

All i can say is if people cannot bring themselves to criticise Rioli's current form then they never will.
Gotta laugh when people use what the coach says as evidence of a player not being crap. I read the article in question and Hardwick is clearly taking the pee.

I will say again, i have never heard Hardwick bag a player out publicly. I have heard him say a player is not being dropped for form but needs a rest or use some other spurious excuse several times, when it is clear to all that the player in question is clearly out of form.

Still no answer to the question of What role is he currently performing well to justify his spot. Surely people have an opinion of their own on this.
Please don't answer his run and chase or his tackling as most can see he is currently poor defensively and offering little offensively.

Does any one want to do the Rioli comparison while we are at it. First 5 seasons for both Cyril and Daniel. His cousin shows exactly where he should be tracking to as primarily a defensive fwd yet they are miles apart.

What Cyril shows is that our expectations should be on a player who can do both things well. Guarding space and chasing is not enough especially for a bloke in yr six with close to 100 games to his name. Cyril was giving Hawthorn in his first yr what we are currently getting out of Daniel in year six.

We love you here Mopsy, I want you to know that. In modern football club vernacular we need to get around you and give you a man hug.

But as former Collingwood flog Mr E McGuire would say, if someone handed you a gold bar you would complain it was too heavy.

To help you along, let’s unpack what exactly you are saying in your post here…..

What you wrote:

"All i can say is if people cannot bring themselves to criticise Rioli's current form then they never will.
Gotta laugh when people use what the coach says as evidence of a player not being crap. I read the article in question and Hardwick is clearly taking the pee.”

What you meant:

Deep down I know D Rioli must be important to us. But it hurts my eyes to see a Richmond player’s exhausted efforts to contest the ball after he has ran himself off his legs doing the highly unfashionable and extremely difficult task of pressurising opponent after opponent with almost no chance of getting the ball….I know the coach should know the value of each player and it is his job to explain this to the members etc without divulging all the team’s secrets, but it is obvious that little old Mopsy here knows better from my combination of listening to commentator’s hyperbole and watching the little bit of the game I can see on my TV screen, once, from one angle.

What you wrote:

"I will say again, i have never heard Hardwick bag a player out publicly. I have heard him say a player is not being dropped for form but needs a rest or use some other spurious excuse several times, when it is clear to all that the player in question is clearly out of form.”

What you meant:

I will just ignore the fact my point about Hardwick not bagging players publicly has been discredited by another poster, with examples, and take a mulligan on the point I was making, hoping if I repeat my discredited point it will somehow gain credibility. I will add here as well it is obvious Hardwick really thinks Dan Rioli is a gimp because you know, he has picked him in 12 of 12 finals the club has played since Rioli arrived at the club.

What you wrote:

"Still no answer to the question of What role is he currently performing well to justify his spot. Surely people have an opinion of their own on this.
Please don't answer his run and chase or his tackling as most can see he is currently poor defensively and offering little offensively."

What you meant:

I know my question is ludicrous because it assumes all the posters who think D Rioli is in our best team think that he should be selected every match no matter what. And I would prefer if people didn’t answer my question with the truth. I want Rioli to be an old fashioned goal sneak small forward who takes the odd spectacular mark and regularly displays astonishing wizardry. Who wants to see him chasing thin air all over the place, and who cares if that is an important part of what makes us win.

What you wrote:

"Does any one want to do the Rioli comparison while we are at it. First 5 seasons for both Cyril and Daniel. His cousin shows exactly where he should be tracking to as primarily a defensive fwd yet they are miles apart. What Cyril shows is that our expectations should be on a player who can do both things well. Guarding space and chasing is not enough especially for a bloke in yr six with close to 100 games to his name. Cyril was giving Hawthorn in his first yr what we are currently getting out of Daniel in year six."

What you meant:

Just to show how bad Rioli is I want to compare him with his cousin Cyril to show he isn’t even the best small forward in his family. Ok, I realise Cyril is seen as just about the best small forward ever, like out of approximately thousands of VFL/AFL small forwards throughout history, he is seen by many as THE best, and I also know that notionally at least Daniel Rioli only needs to be in about the best 50 small forwards in the AFL right now to be worthy of a game. But anyway, I will use Cyril as his benchmark, you know, because they are related, so it is sort of convenient and I know through a trick of psychology this will resonate with some readers. Oh and by the way, Garry Ablett Jnr was no good because Garry Ablett Snr was better than him, Ken Fletcher was no good as his son Dustin was much better, Jack Riewoldt is patently shyte because most people think his cousin Nick is better…..

We love you Mopsy, never change mate.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Daniel Rioli only needs to be in about the best 50 small forwards in the AFL right now to be worthy of a game.

Mork calling Orson, come in Orson.
He's actually not in the best 50 performed small forwards in the AFL and hence sent the weekend chasing arse in the McGoos.
But we'll buy the Hardwick line ... he wasn't dropped for form
Next I'll be led to believe he's like an under-12s kid who had to sit the match out last week to attend his brother First Communion.!
H e was demoted due to form as it's been abysmal and has been for some time.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Rioli was dropped...he went back to vfl...reports suggest he put his head down and worked on his game...good on him...he didn’t sulk....

I like Rioli particularly when he is firing....it’s awesome

hope to see him back in the ones soon

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Mork calling Orson, come in Orson.
He's actually not in the best 50 performed small forwards in the AFL and hence sent the weekend chasing arse in the McGoos.
But we'll buy the Hardwick line ... he wasn't dropped for form
Next I'll be led to believe he's like an under-12s kid who had to sit the match out last week to attend his brother First Communion.!
H e was demoted due to form as it's been abysmal and has been for some time.

He wasn’t actually going that badly overall. I think to be honest is is something along these lines with Daniel: early season when the mid/forward connection isn’t working well, he struggles, for whatever reason, it possibly makes him have to chase too much, which means he loses some confidence ball in hand. As Hardwick explained this can be a pretty dispiriting task. He has been sent to the reserves early season three years running now and maybe even freshened up later once last year. He will be there when the whips are cracking. I don’t think any of us are arguing he was playing near his best. But as Hardwick has said there is a bit more to it than that.

 

[Rayzorwire]

We love you here Mopsy, I want you to know that. In modern football club vernacular we need to get around you and give you a man hug.

But as former Collingwood flog Mr E McGuire would say, if someone handed you a gold bar you would complain it was too heavy.

To help you along, let’s unpack what exactly you are saying in your post here…..

What you wrote:

"All i can say is if people cannot bring themselves to criticise Rioli's current form then they never will.
Gotta laugh when people use what the coach says as evidence of a player not being crap. I read the article in question and Hardwick is clearly taking the pee.”

What you meant:

Deep down I know D Rioli must be important to us. But it hurts my eyes to see a Richmond player’s exhausted efforts to contest the ball after he has ran himself off his legs doing the highly unfashionable and extremely difficult task of pressurising opponent after opponent with almost no chance of getting the ball….I know the coach should know the value of each player and it is his job to explain this to the members etc without divulging all the team’s secrets, but it is obvious that little old Mopsy here knows better from my combination of listening to commentator’s hyperbole and watching the little bit of the game I can see on my TV screen, once, from one angle.

What you wrote:

"I will say again, i have never heard Hardwick bag a player out publicly. I have heard him say a player is not being dropped for form but needs a rest or use some other spurious excuse several times, when it is clear to all that the player in question is clearly out of form.”

What you wrote:

I will just ignore the fact my point about Hardwick not bagging players publicly has been discredited by another poster, with examples, and take a mulligan on the point I was making, hoping if I repeat my discredited point it will somehow gain credibility. I will add here as well it is obvious Hardwick really thinks Dan Rioli is a gimp because you know, he has picked him in 12 of 12 finals the club has played since Rioli arrived at the club.

What you wrote:

"Still no answer to the question of What role is he currently performing well to justify his spot. Surely people have an opinion of their own on this.
Please don't answer his run and chase or his tackling as most can see he is currently poor defensively and offering little offensively."

What you meant:

I know my question is ludicrous because it assumes all the posters who think D Rioli is in our best team think that he should be selected every match no matter what. And I would prefer if people didn’t answer my question with the truth. I want Rioli to be an old fashioned goal sneak small forward who takes the odd spectacular mark and regularly displays astonishing wizardry. Who wants to see him chasing thin air all over the place, and who cares if that is an important part of what makes us win.

What you wrote:

"Does any one want to do the Rioli comparison while we are at it. First 5 seasons for both Cyril and Daniel. His cousin shows exactly where he should be tracking to as primarily a defensive fwd yet they are miles apart. What Cyril shows is that our expectations should be on a player who can do both things well. Guarding space and chasing is not enough especially for a bloke in yr six with close to 100 games to his name. Cyril was giving Hawthorn in his first yr what we are currently getting out of Daniel in year six."

What you meant:

Just to show how bad Rioli is I want to compare him with his cousin Cyril to show he isn’t even the best small forward in his family. Ok, I realise Cyril is seen as just about the best small forward ever, like out of approximately thousands of VFL/AFL small forwards throughout history, he is seen by many as THE best, and I also know that notionally at least Daniel Rioli only needs to be in about the best 50 small forwards in the AFL right now to be worthy of a game. But anyway, I will use Cyril as his benchmark, you know, because they are related, so it is sort of convenient and I know through a trick of psychology this will resonate with some readers. Oh and by the way, Garry Ablett Jnr was no good because Garry Ablett Snr was better than him, Ken Fletcher was no good as his son Dustin was much better, Jack Riewoldt is patently sh*te because most people think his cousin Nick is better…..

We love you Mopsy, never change mate.

Damn, I reckon that was a solid enough hip and shoulder to jar another profile loose...

 

[Moppey]

He wasn’t actually going that badly overall. I think to be honest is is something along these lines with Daniel: early season when the mid/forward connection isn’t working well, he struggles, for whatever reason, it possibly makes him have to chase too much, which means he loses some confidence ball in hand. As Hardwick explained this can be a pretty dispiriting task. He has been sent to the reserves early season three years running now and maybe even freshened up later once last year. He will be there when the whips are cracking. I don’t think any of us are arguing he was playing near his best. But as Hardwick has said there is a bit more to it than that.

Lol

 

[Moppey]

Mork calling Orson, come in Orson.
He's actually not in the best 50 performed small forwards in the AFL and hence sent the weekend chasing arse in the McGoos.
But we'll buy the Hardwick line ... he wasn't dropped for form
Next I'll be led to believe he's like an under-12s kid who had to sit the match out last week to attend his brother First Communion.!
H e was demoted due to form as it's been abysmal and has been for some time.

No Mork don't be silly, favorite sons never have poor patches or poor form.
I have to say if he was not dropped for THE PATHETIC poor form that he has displayed and the form the vast majority of supporters are commenting on, then he was dropped for the wrong reasons. Who says they get everything right.

How ludicrous is the argument. Daniel gets picked every week because he runs and chases and guards space !!!! mind you not very well in recent times.
But hey he has not been dropped. Never mind he can't lay a tackle, can't get his hands on the ball can't kick goals and is always second to the ball but hey he has good pressure stats because he is always second to the ball it is hilarious.
Playing in three grand finals has absolutely nothing to do with his form atm. What it has done is distort peoples ability to criticise poor form when it is warranted, for no other reason than he has managed to play in three grand finals and not too well at that if i am honest.

Gotta repeat if people cannot admit he has generally played poorly in recent times then they never will. Sort of makes having any sort of rational discussion about him pointless.

So Hardwick and co play him in a role for so long that he needs to be dropped. Maybe we are not looking at the right person to blame here. But wait in this magical world of footy at Richmond those in charge never ever get anything wrong so it must be something imaginary.

What is frustrating is we get our fair share of things wrong, there are supporters who say one thing and agree but in reality wont have a bar of us getting anything wrong ever. It actually stops balanced debate on simple things like who is playing well and who is not.

So again i have to ask what is Rioli doing so well that warrants him getting a game atm. Again i will say don't say running hard guarding space tackling its been non existent.

 

[THE_GUN]

A bit of egg on face for a few in here I reckon.

I would say not egg but Dimma has shat on their faces

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No Mork don't be silly, favorite sons never have poor patches or poor form.
I have to say if he was not dropped for THE PATHETIC poor form that he has displayed and the form the vast majority of supporters are commenting on, then he was dropped for the wrong reasons. Who says they get everything right.

How ludicrous is the argument. Daniel gets picked every week because he runs and chases and guards space !!!! mind you not very well in recent times.
But hey he has not been dropped. Never mind he can't lay a tackle, can't get his hands on the ball can't kick goals and is always second to the ball but hey he has good pressure stats because he is always second to the ball it is hilarious.
Playing in three grand finals has absolutely nothing to do with his form atm. What it has done is distort peoples ability to criticise poor form when it is warranted, for no other reason than he has managed to play in three grand finals and not too well at that if i am honest.

Gotta repeat if people cannot admit he has generally played poorly in recent times then they never will. Sort of makes having any sort of rational discussion about him pointless.

So Hardwick and co play him in a role for so long that he needs to be dropped. Maybe we are not looking at the right person to blame here. But wait in this magical world of footy at Richmond those in charge never ever get anything wrong so it must be something imaginary.

What is frustrating is we get our fair share of things wrong, there are supporters who say one thing and agree but in reality wont have a bar of us getting anything wrong ever. It actually stops balanced debate on simple things like who is playing well and who is not.

So again i have to ask what is Rioli doing so well that warrants him getting a game atm. Again i will say don't say running hard guarding space tackling its been non existent.

But I don’t geddit Mopsy. I don’t think anyone, including Hardwick is arguing D Rioli was shooting the lamps out.

Hardwick’s press conference explained perfectly well why Rioli was left out of the team these last two weeks. It also explained perfectly why Rioli has been consistently selected in Richmond’s best 22 in the biggest games.

I think it just boils down to this: some of us accept that as the correct picture, and some of us(you) don’t. You seem to be characterising posters who believe Hardwick’s explanation over Rioli as being people who believe the MC never make a mistake. I haven’t read anyone claiming the MC never makes a mistake on here. I think the line of reasoning is more along the lines of a MC at such a successful club must be getting the vast majority of decisions right. And so it follows that it is highly likely they are right in their handling of Rioli, whether that be including or omitting him from the team.

If you think the MC is so obviously wrong, it is really for you to explain why a MC who gets so much right, would in the case of Daniel Rioli suddenly lose its ability to make sound decisions.

I look forward to hearing your reason you think that is happening.

 

[THE_GUN]

I remember Hawthorn supporters defending Cyril Rioli when it was said he was not getting enough ball or kicking enough goals.
Their reply was similar to tiger supporters on Daniel.

So how does Daniel after 5 seasons stack up to Cyril"s first five. I am pretty sure there will be a significant gap.

How many Cyril's are there in the AFL ?

The man was a magician and i dont think anybody has insinuated that Daniel is a better player than Cyril was. Very very different players and should not be even compared

 

[Meteoric Rise]

How many Cyril's are there in the AFL ?

The man was a magician and i dont think anybody has insinuated that Daniel is a better player than Cyril was. Very very different players and should not be even compared

But Gun, anybody not tracking as good as Cyril Rioli who is also named Rioli should not ever be selected in the Richmond team. Mopsy should not have to put up with Hawthorn supporters telling him their Rioli was better than ours.

 

[THE_GUN]

he is tracking slightly ahead of dean at the moment but debatable

Interested to see how its debateable ?
Dean Rioli - 8 years 100 games 91 goals ( fat over weight and lazy footballer with silky skills)
Daniel Rioli - 5 years 4 games 98 games 84 goals ( Hard working team orientated with excellent work ethic )

I know which i want playing next game against St Kilda