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2007 - A practical list analysis

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Thought about adding this to Brizzy Blue's outstanding thread but thought that was more about what is in store the next generation rather than what we are looking at in terms of balance and what we may have to work with in the draft coming in to next season. Obviously we will not get all of the delistings we want as contracts WILL come into the picture.

I was looking at the ages of players, how many changes we can practically make, the right balance of ages and developed bodies and so forth.

This is the current list, their ages as of 1/3/07 (basically going in to next season and my thoughts about their futures from a practical point of view.

Anthony Koutoufides - 34 - Expected to retire but has hinted previously at continuing on. We've had some younger players stand up this year so Kouta's leadership is not required as much as it was going into this season. Like Hird at Essendon, will be out of contract. What is the point of signing another contract for even 400k when it won't assist in our development. RETIRE

Matthew Lappin - 31 - Contracted for another season. I'm feeling a little ripped off by Matty these days. Has barely fired a shot since his AA selection in '04. Refused an early offer last year, lost form, the club reduced the offer, he shops around, still gets a good price and goes back into his shell again. Is he injured? Is his head not right? Is he going through the motions? Has he lost his passion for the club? He will still be here next year obviously but if he doesn't lift, he will be a depth player in the VFL. RETAIN

Barnaby French - 31 - Still our best ruckman and until we can build some depth will continue to be our first choice. RETAIN

Cory McGrath - 28 - Solid player who performs accountable defensive roles that not too many in the current side can do. Will progressively become more of a depth player but is still needed. We can't stack the VFL with stars because other clubs will lure them away. Players like McGrath will stay on the books and do their jobs when called upon and won't attract the interest of other clubs. RETAIN

Troy Longmuir - 28 - What can I say? Failed experiment. Betts fills his forward crumbing role but with better defensive pressure. Fisher performs his forward marking third option role but with surer hands. Age is not on his side as we look to the next generation. There will be zero interest from other clubs. Thanks for trying Troy. DELIST

Lance Whitnall - 27 - Has turned it all around and become a leader and possible AA this year. Most likely candidate for the captaincy next season. His detractors having tired of him doing so little for so long will be calling for him to be traded while he has lifted his value this season. They will remain fearful of a return to nothingness next season and a wasted opportunity. I believe he might have found the mental switch and matured in terms of taking care of his body. We need his smarts, we need our general. He fits the bill. RETAIN

Jason Saddington - 27 - Is contracted so talk about delisting is not an option. If he regains fitness he can be part of our defence. For next year, we can consider him a depth player unless he shows a lot more than he did in his first few outings this year. RETAIN

Callum Chambers - 27 - Won't dwell on the disappointment of Callum. Suffice to say if they introduce 9 point goals in the AFL next season, he will probably be retained. Being part of an impressive preseason premiership is his claim to fame and will remain so. DELIST

Nick Stevens - 27 - Has lost his way. Expected the captaincy but lost form the same time Lance found it, pushing Stevo to the background. Is he playing within himself as a result? Is he looking to lower his trade value further so he can go to his first choice Magpies via trade week? People say you can not get rid of your skilled midfielders when you are in our position. I look at it another way ... does Stevo fit what our team needs right now and will he still be needed when our younger mids are pushing on strong and we are in the finals mix again? He is ripe for a trade in my opinion but we will not get anything of substantial value for him. Better off persevering, seeing what he can do as the support from teammates continues to get better. Worst case scenario, he provides some depth and walks into the PSD when his contract expires next year. Almost definitely ... RETAIN

Heath Scotland - 26 - Along with Murph, our star midfielder this season. Has added an edginess to his game where he physically challenges his opposition and I quite like it. Has a lot of time to dispose of the ball but goes in and saves the day regularly as well. Smart, handy player. RETAIN

Ian Prendergast - 26 - Can't mark, can't ruck, can't play key position but has good endurance. Unfortunately more often than not, his endurance is used to chase all day long rather than get the ball himself. Too many in between types appearing on our list. Has had far too many chances. I'd like to see Prender do a Digby, Harf and Frankie by remaining with the Bullants because he is a Carlton man. DELIST

Brendan Fevola - 26 - Our gun although it is apparent he struggles if not 100% fit mentally and physically. You don't get rid of players that show the heart, class and leadership Fev has this year. RETAIN

David Teague - 25 - Has failed to recapture the form of his B&F season, in fact not even a shadow of that form. I think he is contracted next season. If not for that, he would be gone as he is clearly down on confidence and out of favour. For contract reasons ... RETAIN

Ryan Houlihan - 25 - Skilled player but will never become the all round footballer we would like him to be. I like him in full flight but we have too much of a same old same old feeling amongst our middle aged midfielders. Outside mids are important but having several unaccountable ones is overkill. Prime trade candidate but not unless we can get a mid to late second rounder for him. RETAIN

Chris Bryan - 24 - Almost 25 by this time and has only shown a couple of glimpses. Bryan's future will depend on how he finishes this year, whether Pagan sees fit to give him a couple of games and what we do on the ruck recruiting stage. Borderline. RETAIN

Dylan McLaren - 24 - Was it a two year contract? I expect so. Started the season well but his shortcomings have been exposed. Will never be a first choice ruck so will be a depth player at best. Contractually ... RETAIN

Adrian DeLuca - 24 - Had a reasonable first year, a disastrous second year and an average third year. Pagan is clearly trying to play him into form and thinks highly of him. Is contracted for next year so we will have to endure those dropped marks for a while longer. RETAIN

Simon Wiggins - 24 - Has had a good last couple of months. Seems to have matured and not before time. My concern is that players that save themselves at the 11th hour return to nothingness as soon as they get another contract. I like the guy though and want to see him succeed. Give him a one year contract and continue to challenge him. RETAIN

Trent Sporn - 24 - Another guy who has been there six years and shown little. Has had periods suggesting he may make it and then gets injured and takes 12 months to make it back into the side again. We can not keep these guys indefinitely hoping they will come right and justify their draft selection back in 2000. DELIST

Jordan Bannister - 24 - Was gone for all money a few weeks back but had done the hard work in the VFL and is now showing a precious commodity in the seniors ... run and rebound. Is still borderline in my opinion but as long as he maintains what he has done this past month, he will be saved. RETAIN

Luke Livingston - 24 - Pride keeps him on the list. We don't want to make the failure of the 2000 draft absolute and getting rid of Livo will bring about another rash of media stories and opposition supporter abuse. They all know he is done and dusted and have been ribbing us for ages about it but the moment there is no coming back for Livo, will be a joyous occasion for our detractors. Do we need him for depth? I'd suggest that Bower and Hartlett will quickly pass Livo in our thinking. We are forced to maintain Teague and Saddington because they are contracted ... which kind of leaves Livo out in the cold. Sounds like a popular guy around the club and it is a damn shame. He just never went on with what I believed was his final opportunity when he did extremely well in our preseason premiership last year. Saddens me but ... DELIST

Jarrad Waite - 24 - Still our great hope as he offers such athleticism, x factor if you like. Will be an amazing player as this bunch of youngsters continues to grow and support each other. RETAIN

Setanta O'hAilpin - 23 - Just starting to show something now. Will be nearing 24 at the start of next season but we have persevered for 3 years so far, I don’t think we will be giving up on him now. The romantics in the club will ensure Setanta gets another year to show something. RETAIN

Justin Davies - 23 - Apparently doesn’t have a great attitude. Has an ‘indefinite’ back injury. Probably read ‘never to play again’ into that. Has talent but only shows it once in a navy blue moon. DELIST

Bret Thornton - 23 - Has had a good year so far and seems to be buoyed by the form and presence of Lance down there to help him out. Important part of our future. RETAIN

Andrew Carrazzo - 23 - Prolific role player. Would be one of the first selected each week if he could kick. His value is in getting to as many contests as possible, possibly an early Troy Cook type. Not superbly skilled but reads the play very well. RETAIN

Brad Fisher - 22 - Needs to get into the midfield a little more once his fitness is up. Great hands, great third tall forward and gets a bit of the ball. Problem is we are starting to gather up a fair bit of forward talent and as Fish is not a crumber, his forward opportunities may start to dry up. Very talented player, I want to see him become indispensable. RETAIN

Kade Simpson - 22 - Our most improved player in my opinion. He’s the flashy runner with a penetrating kick who can run to 50 and let fly like Camporeale in his heyday. Kade has more grit though, is a better overhead mark and is faster than Campo. I suspect ultimately he will be a better leader than Campo too. He’s a gun. RETAIN

Adam Bentick - 21 - Part of a midfield that seems to take turns to rack up the stats. Was looking out of form recently but bobbed up again on the weekend to get some quality ball. Still not convinced he will be a 10 year player for us but he could easily be. Right now, he is more than worth his spot as one of a couple of true extractors. RETAIN

Aisake O'hAilpin - 21 - Like his brother, we have invested a lot of time in Aisake as a project player. Has a year left as an eligible international rookie. Will play Bullants seniors next year so we can get a real look at him before elevating him to the senior list. RETAINED ROOKIE

Jesse Smith - 21 - Has been unlucky with injury and probably deserving of a look. However spots are tight on our senior list next season and Jesse can not be retained on the rookie list unless we cut him and re-rookie him. We don’t often do that and plenty of promising rookies before him have been cut loose much to our surprise. I fear Smith may fit into that category. DELISTED ROOKIE

Adam Hartlett - 20 - Only in his second season, has had a few injuries but as a key position player taken at #25, he was always going to take some time. Showed something in the preseason comp and should come into the team in the last couple of weeks this season and get some serious game time next year. RETAIN

Daniel Batson - 20 - Hmm, how often do rookie rucks succeed? How many Dean Cox’s are out there? Has mostly played for the Bullants reserves and is in his last rookie year. We need a ruckman but I fancy we will start again with an 18 year old taken in the top 20 of the super draft rather than take a chance on Batson on the senior list. Plus Aisake is being groomed for that spot anyway. Not looking good for Batson. DELISTED ROOKIE

Andrew Walker - 20 - Still only 20 when next season kicks off which means he has plenty of time left to fulfill expectations. People get frustrated with his skills I don’t think anybody is entertaining thoughts of getting rid of him … are they? Safe as houses. RETAIN

Jordan Russell - 20 - Starting to come on this year but illness has probably stopped his momentum. Developing physically, should come to the fore as he gains confidence. His pace is a required commodity. RETAIN

Luke Blackwell - 20 - What a revelation! Great skills in close and heaps of development still to be done. This one is easy … RETAIN

Eddie Betts - 20 - There is only one Eddie Betts at the club, a speedy, charismatic small forward with a pronounced defensive side. RETAIN

Anthony Raso - 19 - Second year project player just starting to get a glimpse of the Bullants seniors. He will get another year to show he is learning and making progress. RETAIN

Ryan Jackson - 19 - A real goer and close to getting a senior call up. Regrettably limited spots on the senior list next year combined with us needing as many picks as possible in a strong draft, means he will most likely remain a rookie while lesser players parade around on the senior list. Cest la vie. RETAINED ROOKIE

Marc Murphy - 19 - A star already. Will be a champion at the end of his career. Why waste words? RETAIN

Craig Flint - 19 - Most likely rookie elevation as a medium sized defender is precious and he has been doing very well. I’ve gone conservative due to list constraints but it won’t surprise me to see him on the senior list next year. RETAINED ROOKIE

Josh Kennedy - 19 - With a full preseason behind him, imagine what he can do. Only getting better and better and will be a genuine target next season taking a lot of pressure off Fevola. RETAIN

Jake Edwards - 19 - Coming along nicely. Needs more physical development but has a good attitude and the tools to succeed. Expect to see him starring in the VFL next year and ready to make the leap into senior footy thereafter. RETAIN

Paul Bower - 19 - Has had injuries but already impressed as a big rebounding defender. Might get a shot in the later rounds this year but will definitely be pushing for selection in 2007. Another first year player who is completely safe. RETAIN


2007 Senior List - 38 (no veterans)

Bannister
Bentick
Betts
Blackwell
Bower
Bryan
Carrazzo
DeLuca
Edwards
Fevola
Fisher
French
Hartlett
Houlihan
Kennedy
Lappin
McGrath
McLaren
Murphy
S O’hAilpin
Raso
Russell
Saddington
Scotland
Simpson
Stevens
Teague
Thornton
Waite
Walker
Whitnall
Wiggins
#2
#18
#20
#36
#52*
PSD #2

Rookies
Flint
Jackson
A O’hAilpin
+ three rookie picks

Out
Koutoufides (retired)
Chambers
Davies
Livingston
Longmuir
Prendergast
Sporn
Smith ( r )
Batson ( r )

*We would more than likely use #52 meaning we either have to pay out a contracted player early, ( I’d tip Teague, Bryan, Saddington or McLaren) OR, we trade a player for a pick OR we don’t elevate a rookie. Flint and Jackson look to be deserving of elevation but the existing contracts of a handful of players that probably won’t make it, means we will have to make sacrifices somewhere. At this stage I have gone with the latter option as it seems more likely than paying money out for no gain given our financial situation and more likely than a pie in the sky trade for draft picks. At least we can retain everybody this way and use our extra pick as well.

Edit: PSD #2 not #1 (yet), thanks Linchy, always willing to point out faults in others. :p
 

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Reasonable effort :)

I'd have a few changes though.
1. Make a call on one of bannister/mcgrath - delist the other
2. Delist/retire one of and possibly both Bryan/french - French's downslope this season has been fairly rapid and could get worse next season. At 32(?) next season he might not get another contract unless he recaptures some serious form. Bryan will depend on what he shows for the remainder of the year
3. I'd retain prendergast - Particularly if we let go of both bryan and french. Offers us good depth/flexibility. Extremely disappointed that he hasnt been given more opportunity this year given his dominance in the bullants all season. Did reasonably well when he came into the team only to lose his spot after a one week injury.

That above changes would give us another 2 spots on the list (ignoring trades) - Depending on what aisakes physical development is like, I'd consider elevating him to the senior list for 50% games in the 1st next season as part of an accelerated development program.

Oh, and I'd trade stevens ;)
 
cong8 said:
Reasonable effort :)

I'd have a few changes though.
1. Make a call on one of bannister/mcgrath - delist the other

They play different roles but I can see one or the other going quite easily if we want to elevate a rookie or dig deeper in the draft. The thing is they deserve to be there more than a couple of others who are contracted IMO. We need someone capable of tagging the Judds and Buckleys of the world and Banno is one of two players prepared to arch their back and take on their opponents. Damn exciting to watch (when it comes off).

2. Delist/retire one of and possibly both Bryan/french - French's downslope this season has been fairly rapid and could get worse next season. At 32(?) next season he might not get another contract unless he recaptures some serious form. Bryan will depend on what he shows for the remainder of the year[/quote]
So you will go in with McLaren, Deluca, Aisake and as seen below Prendergast as our developed/developing rucks? A couple of years back we lost our first two rucks and we struggled dismally with Prendergast and McKernan I think it was, as our first choice rucks. You can't play with your ruck depth unless you find replacements. I pray we don't go in too light again.

3. I'd retain prendergast - Particularly if we let go of both bryan and french. Offers us good depth/flexibility. Extremely disappointed that he hasnt been given more opportunity this year given his dominance in the bullants all season. Did reasonably well when he came into the team only to lose his spot after a one week injury.
He did well for one week but then he wasn't rucking. He is a tall midfield chaser. Can't play key position, can't ruck, can't take a contested grab. He is an enigma in that his apparent strengths aren't strengths at all. With his endurance and pace for a big man, he could be a Richo type but he quite simply isn't close. The answer to the beginning of number 3 is .... don't let go of both Bryan and French.

That above changes would give us another 2 spots on the list (ignoring trades) - Depending on what aisakes physical development is like, I'd consider elevating him to the senior list for 50% games in the 1st next season as part of an accelerated development program.
Let's hope he can get some Bullant seniors game time behind him first. We have the luxury of a third rookie year for Aisake, we should take advantage of it. If he starts to shine, no doubt we will have at least one LTI next year and elevate him.

Oh, and I'd trade stevens ;)
For value though, not for the sake of it.
 
brilliant work as usual odn. :thumbsu:

teague and saddington are my only worries on that list. the fact that these two could be still on our books next year beacuse of contracts makes me ill.
 
ODN

1. Atm as 'tagging' options we have bannister, wiggins, houlahan, walker, wiggins, prendergast, sporn and carazzo. And that is just off the top of my head - you could possibly throw russell into that list as well though I dont think he has played that role in the senior team yet (unlike the others above who have all done jobs in the past). We need to lose the negative mindset of having a team full of taggers. In terms of who I would choose, I'd retain bannister ahead of mcgrath - but then I'd have wiggins ahead of those 2 once our forward line is structured properly (waite, fev, kennedy, fisher, whitnall, betts + others)
2. Ruck depth. I'd go mclaren/aisake as 1st option with prender as a possible relief option. Deluca wouldnt even be in the calculations as a ruckman. Yes we would be undersized and yes we would lose most contests. How is that different from what we have now? - French would be lucky to have broken even with more than a couple of opponents this season. If it is due to age, then his performances can only be expected to deteriorate next season. At the very least, the others might offer more around the ground than what we fet from french atm. With bryan, the issue is completely different. I'd have bryan in the team ahead of mclaren for what he offers around the ground. Ruckwise both would break even in my book and both are undersized. You'd have to think though that if he cant get a game this season then he isnt likely to be retained for next season.
3. Prendergast - Has actually shown a lot previously as a backup ruckman - did well in 2004 from his opportunities but then for some inexplicable reason pagan lost faith in him at the start of 2005 - his season reflected that. Prender as an athelete turned footballer is always going to rely on getting an extended run before he can play to ability. That means giving him a real attacking role witihin the team rather than a 1/2hearted chase a man for 10 minute bursts every quarter type role that he has been getting. He is also a quite a good contested mark and would be a good option as a relief ruckman that moves forward after the centre bounce to provide bullocking work (partly to help protect kennedy's body for another couple of seasons)
4. Aisake - He has played 1 senior bullants game and from reports of the reserves games he is more than ready to stepup to the bullants 1's. The extent of a players development often ties in with the level of competition around him - It gotten to the stage where aisake constantly tears up the bullants reserves - he will learn less from there than if he was at a higher level. The only issue there would appear to be the amount of game time that he gets when players like mclaren are dropped to the bullants. He needs game time to develop (similar to prendergast) - he wont get it in the bullants 1st team unless the both mclaren and french are in the carlton team. Even then there is bryan to contend with (unless we drop bryan to the bullants reserves...). Being prepared to take a short term hit in the ruck division is required if we are going to fast track aisake's development. Atm our entire ruck division consists of
french (at his very best a battler/negating ruckman who offered litte around the ground -and a long way short of his best atm),
mclaren (undersized ruck - again a battler)
deluca (originially recruited as a ruckman due to height but in reality has no idea when it comes to rucking ability and is consequently played as a keyforward nowadays)
batson (has size but doesnt look to be a chance of making it at this late stage)
prendergast (undersized, also a battler)
aisake (has size, looks to have ability, still learning the game)

We cant afford to carry that many of them so it comes down to what they might offer around the ground and the club. For mine prendergast/bryan would offer more around the ground than mclaren/deluca - the latter 2 are contracted though so we cant really move there. In terms of bryan/prendergast - I'd take the bloke with the commitment/work ethic/leadership skills to have around the club as a depth player anyday of the week.

Oh and on stevens trade - absolutely - only trade for the right deal - not at all costs
 
Quality stuff ODN! :thumbsu: :)

That is seriously how i would structure the list for next season if i was in charge, although i'm unsure as to how the rookies are developing as i haven't been to any VFL matches this year.

My only question mark would be over Preder, however i must concur with the fact that he has been given sufficient time to improve and consolidate his place in the side - which he has failed to do so. It's a shame as he looked like he had turned the corner at the beginning of the year, but approaching this years draft, which it's quality has been compared to that of 2001, spots on the senior list must be comprimised if we are to make the most of drafting new talent.
 
1.
simply an excellent post.
2.
agree with most of the obsevations except...
3.
Teague - think the game may have passed him by. ultra courageous however just a bit to slow.
4.
Ryan Jackson - needs to be elevated TY and let's see what he can do. would expect to see him on the CFC list in 2007
5.
Craig Flint - see pt 4, except could be a 2nd year rookie in 2007
6.
Jesse Smith - difficult, should have been elevated by now if a future at CFC, think I agree will go.
7.
Chris Bryan - was excited by him L/Y, we need to see him in the Seniors soon [next week, repacing Adrian Deluca]. balance of TY could hold his future. like to think he will be at CFC.
8.
again, excellent post and comments.
 
Post over at csc detailed a conversation with a carlton trainer, the word was that French is GONE at seasons end.

Just the messenger.
 

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audas said:
Post over at csc detailed a conversation with a carlton trainer, the word was that French is GONE at seasons end.

Just the messenger.


http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,19799795%5E19762,00.html

French, 30, is contracted until the end of next season and hopes to enjoy some success before he hangs up his boots.

"I'm looking forward to playing with these young guys next year and the following year, and just seeing their improvement," he said.
:confused:
 
I bloody well hope Teague can be delisted and I would trade Stevens.

I would rather Prendergast or even Livo' ahead of Bryan but otherwise...:thumbsu:
 
Pafloyul said:
I bloody well hope Teague can be delisted and I would trade Stevens.

I would rather Prendergast or even Livo' ahead of Bryan but otherwise...:thumbsu:

How long do you want us to keep prenda and livo on the list? neither can get a game now, and with more talent coming in they will have no chance, time to cut our losses with them and a few other players.
 
I think it would be safe to assume anyone that is not getting a game at Carlton at the moment & they are not young players taken in the last 2 drafts will be gone at seasons end.

eg Prendergast
Livingston
Chambers
Longmuir
Davies
Bryan unless he shows something in the last 6 weeks providing he gets a game at Carlton.
Teague his contract will probably save him.
 
irish setanta said:
How long do you want us to keep prenda and livo on the list? neither can get a game now, and with more talent coming in they will have no chance, time to cut our losses with them and a few other players.

I'm not sure really, don't get me wrong, I want at least five draft picks.

It is just that I don't rate Bryan. He was brought onto our list out of pure desperation for Ruckmen just as Batson was.
 

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cong - a starting ruck of duo of Aisake and Mclaren sounds abysmal to me. Besides, French is contracted and won't go anywhere. The future of Bannister and McGrath will be considered independently - it's not a "one or the other choice" - especially considering both are in just about their best form yet right now.

ODN - top job. Anyone know how far away is Big Lance from qualifying for veteran status.
 
Brilliant suff ODN, as usual.

What do people think Teague would be on? Would it be worth a financial hit on about $250k or so to free up a spot of the list for another junior from the so-called superdraft, or maybe elevating another rookie? I tip my hat to Teague for the courage he shows and he's a b & f winner for us, but he's obviously not in the picture anymore.

I guess if he's on more than that we probably couldn't do it. AD may not look too kindly on us doing it either considering the financial events of the past couple of days.

It's a tough one. I'm glad I don't have to make the call.
 

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