Discussion 2008 Trade/Draft/Player List Mega Thread

[CHBench]

Pretty much a given now that a KP will be drafted.
Imo order of preference:
Jackson Trengove - CHB/CHF/Ruck.
Lewis Johnston - KPF
Shaun McKernan - Ruck/FF
Jordan Lisle - Utility
Aaron Cornelius - KPF

McQualter can go back on the rookie list. Would have Baker and Birss before him for tagging roles. Eddy, elevate. Attard would've been elevated last year so he's a chance. Miles will be retained, VanRheenan in trouble, Chivers trouble, Haretuku retain.
Irish rookies to come too.

 

[goodie23]

Archie Fraser said it a couple of weeks ago and Lyon said it yesterday in his press conference.

Of course not long after I posted that I read about that press conference.

Apparently the draft's deep, so we might as well use it, hopefully nabbing a key back or two, the token ruckman and a few quick midfielders. First rounder I should imagine will be a mid unless someone like Trengove slides.

 

[kingy0701]

Seeing that trade week is now over this is what I think we should go for in the draft. (As we got Ray we will probably
pick a tall with pick #13)

St Kilda: 13, 47, 48, 63, 79, 95, 111, 127

#13: Jackson Trengove (KPP - Ruck/CHB/CHF)
#47: Mitch Brown (KPF, very exciting prospect, could slide this far)
#48: Jaime Sheahan (Mid, has pace, tough, smart around clearances)
#63: Kade Klemke (Mid/HBF, skillful, tough, tackles well, reads play)
#79: Luke Shuey (Mid/HFF, good size, tough in contest)
#95: Zach Sengstock (KPD, good size, reads play, finds footy, defense)
#111: Liam Jones (KPF, young, power forward, could slip under the radar, son of Bob yet ineligible for F/S)
#127: Pass

Ross Lyon mentioned he will use most, if not all selections in the draft, however some of the above players could be rookie listed (Jones & Sengstock). Overall, this would be a good outcome for us with a good variety of players. Brown could slide but might get picked up earlier.

 

[Squizz]

Not a good sign for Mini, after getting the arse from Thailand on the post-season trip (expired passport).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I just noticed ( yes I am slow ) how well we did out of the 2006 Rookie draft.
We kept picking players after many other teams stopped and got:
Jones - Excellent value, much better than we would have got for a low value trade.
Van Rheenan - We may not know, this year would have been his chance but he was injured.
Robert Eddy, So far looking good, will be a reasonable player.
James Wall, If we hadn't delisted him he may have got a game this year.
Geary , Developing well.
Attard, Played seniors straight away, good player!

In fact we seem to have done better out of the 2006 rookie draft than we did from the senior draft that year, ( although there is still time for Armo and Allen to prove otherwise ).
Contrast 2005 , where the only player we gained from the whole draft was Gilbert.
Will we see similar results from , Chivers , Miles, Heratuku ?

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Not a good sign for Mini, after getting the arse from Thailand on the post-season trip (expired passport).

A rookie (list) mistake?

 

[Gary Groundwork]

Kade Klemke? Sounds like something I cough up on a Sunday morning.
What the duece were his parents thinking?

Jaime Sheahan is expected to go pretty early after impressing at draft camp. Would love to be wrong though, reports on him are good.

 

[CHBench]

Marius Clarke. Do we or don't we?

Tom Swift i hope will come into serious consideration if Trengove is gone. Downside is that he has only played a handfull of games in 2 years after a knee reco and ligament damage. Was leading nearly every stat in the U16 Champs and even touted better than Rich and a definite top 3 pick before his injuries. He began the carnival with 40 possessions, followed up with 24 in the next game and racked up a whopping 45 disposals (he earns his possies, they aren't cheapies) in the final game against Vic Metro. He led division one in handballs, marks, short kicks, contested possessions, uncontested possessions, handball receives, clearances and frees for and looms as a prolific ball winner.

Has had an impressive draft camp with:
3rd in the vertical leap - 72 cm.
5th in 20m sprint - 2.89 sec.
Equal 9th in the beep test - 14.1

Could go anywhere in the vicinity of 10-30.
Do we take the risk? Could pay off big time. Joel Selwood style. If we don't draft a KP this is the guy i want.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

This is where pick 31 would have come in handy...

I'd rather Trengove, or Blease I think.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Marius is from the same family as Raph and Xavier?

 

[Gary Groundwork]

Yeah he is. Could complete the trifecta.
Maybe the dud genes get waned out with each child?

 

[TassieSaint]

Tom Hislop was delisted today. Now unlike many other players suggested we recycle he was drafted just 2 years ago at pick 20. Very tough in and under player, not neccesarily what we need most but a big talent. Apparantly has some attitude problems, but would be worth a shot.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Tom Hislop was delisted today. Now unlike many other players suggested we recycle he was drafted just 2 years ago at pick 20. Very tough in and under player, not neccesarily what we need most but a big talent. Apparantly has some attitude problems, but would be worth a shot.

Yeah, could be drafted as a rookie at his age, but why are Essendon letting him go, its not like they have too many good players to keep?

To me the pre-season has three types of players.
1. Young guys who are not yet good enough or are surplus to requirements.
2. Fringe players with limited ability.
3. Older players who don't want to quit yet.

St Kilda has enough of type 2, we have just unloaded three of them.

Type 1 can have some good players and if they are young enough they can be rookie listed. Attard and Gram come to mind. Has Chivers got less potential now than he did a year ago?

Type 3 can be bargains, but you have to remember that they will have a limited future. Unless they are very good ( Cousins ) it may not be worth throwing out some young potential to make room.
Saints may have room for Cousins but after that ( with Fish and Fiora under contract ) we would need to delist someone like Gwilt, or Jones! Not worth it at this time in my opinion.

We should have tried to trade Fiora for Nick Davis.

 

[ljm2]

Tom Hislop was delisted today. Now unlike many other players suggested we recycle he was drafted just 2 years ago at pick 20. Very tough in and under player, not neccesarily what we need most but a big talent. Apparantly has some attitude problems, but would be worth a shot.

I like the look of the kid. At LEAST rookie.

 

[CHBench]

Saints not interested in Davis

ST KILDA will not pursue former Sydney Swan Nick Davis as it believes young forward Jarryd Allen has the potential to develop into a key aspect of the side's attacking structure.

The Saints delisted eight players on Tuesday, with Charlie Gardiner, Jayden Attard, Matthew Ferguson, Michael Rix, Shane Birss, Glenn Chivers and Luke van Reenan all told their time at Moorabbin is over.

Gardiner was recruited by the Saints from Geelong last year, in an attempt to bolster their forward stocks.

But general manager football and list management Matthew Drain said the club won't look to replace Gardiner with the recently delisted Davis, who is seeking a third AFL home.

"Probably not with where we're heading. There's no doubt a player like Nick in terms of a lead-up forward, you probably can't have enough of them," he told SEN on Wednesday.

"Structure is important and Charlie Gardiner did play an important role in our structure, but we think that Jarryd Allen can fill that role reasonably well.

"He got injured in the finals, but he's one that we'd like to invest more games into.

"That's our plan, but essentially we are looking to the draft to recruit young players."

Drain said the decision to avoid Davis was caused by the club's vision to develop its youth, rather than being influenced by its recent poor strike rate with recycled players.

Gardiner, Attard, Rix and Birss all came from other clubs, while former West Coast ruckman Michael Gardiner has played just nine games in his two years as a Saint owing to injury.

"We think our core 12 to 15 players are very strong, and we've also developed some more on top of that as well.

"Jarryn Geary played 10 games, David Armitage 11, Robert Eddy 11, James Gwilt played about 10 in a row and Clint Jones played about 15.

"We think they've added to our core as well, but we need more than that. We can add to that through players from this and the next draft, with some rookie-listed players, and we can make it stronger over the three to five year period rather than just looking at the next one to two years."

He also said the decision to draft strongly this year was influenced by the Saints' current position and not the fact that after 2008, drafts will be compromised by incoming teams.
"You look back over the history of St Kilda's drafting in the last four years, it's been a combination of pre-season picks and some delisted players through trading," he said.

Focusing on youth. About time.
Read somewhere that the reason Birss was delisted was to give Steven, Armo, Geary more of a go at senior level.
Steps in the right direction.

 

[Squizz]

Focus on developing youth - so are we in the mix for Cousins or not??? Just a complete contradiction.

I'm a bit gobsmacked that we sent Armo over to Perth where he blew up, and elected not to play him on a sloppy night against the Pies when he was suited to the conditions (and I think ended up playing a blinder at Casey). Development?

Brad Howard was played in defensive roles just about all year, so not sure what he is meant to be developing. I would have thought if he had "cat-like" abilities we would want him to learn to find the pill.

Macca played one solitary game, and he is a smart lad who has good hands (and head at times) and kicks straight. Jack had duck-eggs (maybe the promise of game is enough - I don't think).

And CJ is older than Fergie who got the chop (and only a little younger than Birss and Chucky) - so would think the club could refrain from bracketing him in the "youth" brigade (maybe its the blonde hair).

SS - with Grammy, we took a punt on his hammies when the Lions had given up (I'm pretty sure they knew he had the talent as they selected him originally at pick 19 even though Bevo would have picked him later - maybe with pick 21 which was used for Goose).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I know what you are saying Squizzy but I am not in a rush to play these guys if they are not ready.

I dont know if developing means you play them in seniors straight away.
In the past McQualter , Ferguson, X, Raph all got games from a young age, and while it may or may not have hurt them, you cannot claim that it helped them.

My take on the youth focus is that dosn't mean you pass up opportunities to get a top player. What it does mean is that given a choice to choose between players of similar abilities, you go with the young one.
So I read into it that if Birss was still on the list he wouldn't get selected because we wanted to play McQualter, Armitage , Eddy, Steven etc. ( Same as this year ).
This may mean that Fiora and L Fisher wont be selected much this year.

 

[Squizz]

I just found mild amusement that we say no to Davis based on "youth" but yes to Cousins. Just say Davis doesn't meet our no d!ckhead criteria and be done with it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I just found mild amusement that we say no to Davis based on "youth" but yes to Cousins. Just say Davis doesn't meet our no d!ckhead criteria and be done with it.

LOL. They should make that policy official, except I'm not sure we could keep Milne. The trouble with Davis is it would be another de-listing. Obviously ( and with a financial loss this year , prudently ) they don't want to pay out contracts for Fiora/Fisher and there is no-one else we would want to de-list given there would be an element of risk in Davis.
Maybe this would change if we fail to get Cousins. ( But then we may re-draft Attard ).

I heard Birss on SEN last night, he was not bagging anyone, though when he was specifically asked he said he would have liked to know before the trade period.
He is hoping to get picked up by someone else in the preseason.
He was very disappointed as his early career at the Bulldogs was hampered by injury and at the moment his body is as fit as it has ever been.
Was very disapointed he missed out in playing in a final.
___________

To me the comments made about Lyon suggests he is very stand offish. The communications between player and coach seem to be very formal. I'm not sure if Birss knew why he was not being considered for seniors selection during the year , which is poor in my opinion.

One listener rang in with the opinion that it is Drain ( both StKilda and Dogs) that dosn't like Birss.

I feel a bit sorry for both Birss and Attard , because in any other year they would have had a good shot in the PSD, there are teams out there that could use them both for depth. But this year everyone is so focussed on the last draft before GC that I don't think they have much chance.

 

[wheels4]

I reckon this is who we should look at (more recycled players so might not help)
Nathan Carroll i don't mind wouldn't be to unhappy if we got him. Obviously free up grammy/fish

I'm interested in Davenport he would be a handy pick up, quick midfielder that won the cats vfl b&f just been delisted by the cats and is only 23. if we don't get cousins he might be handy depth player.

Zac Dawson also another one to consider but i wouldn't pick him up.

 

[jackmac7]

What are the chances Big Mac plays a role out of the forward line for the saints next season with Kosi swapping in the ruck and dropping back at times.

I was at the game against Freo when Big Ben played and he looked promising leading out taking some good marks and a beautiful kick as well.

Not sure what they have in mind for Allen.

Geary, Armo, Jones, Gwilt, Gilbert, Eddy and Steven all stepping up.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What are the chances Big Mac plays a role out of the forward line for the saints next season with Kosi swapping in the ruck and dropping back at times.

I was at the game against Freo when Big Ben played and he looked promising leading out taking some good marks and a beautiful kick as well.

Not sure what they have in mind for Allen.

Geary, Armo, Jones, Gwilt, Gilbert, Eddy and Steven all stepping up.

I'm pretty sure they are hoping that Allen can be a forward option. The trouble is he was not kicking that many goals in VFL in a team that didn't struggle to get the ball forward. He will need to show something next year.

 

[Squizz]

I'm pretty sure they are hoping that Allen can be a forward option. The trouble is he was not kicking that many goals in VFL in a team that didn't struggle to get the ball forward. He will need to show something next year.

Allen's got good hands and works hard, but is a very ordinary kick. Much prefer McEvoy but the Saints are looking to him as the longer term ruckman (which will limit his development as a key forward).

 

[Squizz]

Another reason we need to use the rookie list for almost ready players, rather than long-term development players :

"AFL rookies will have greater opportunity to shine next year, with clubs able to automatically elevate a rookie halfway through the season.
As part of the compensation for clubs giving away valuable draft picks to the Gold Coast, all 16 clubs will be allowed two extra rookies in the 2009-10 seasons.
In the past, clubs have had to put a senior-listed player on the long-term injury list for eight weeks to elevate a rookie.
That has seen the unfortunate situation where a well-performed rookie has had to return to the rookie list, and VFL footy, despite showing strong form in the AFL.
Starting next season, if a player has impressed enough a club can decide to elevate him irrespective of the club's injury list.
Clubs without two listed veterans can already nominate a rookie to play during the year, with Carlton rookie Michael Jamieson competing in 16 games last season.
The new ruling will give some clubs as many as two extra players on their list in the second half of the year. "